Country Club dynamics

[Chibearsv]

Our company recently paid a country club membership for the execs that I won't use too often since it's not nearby.  But I do play there a handful of times a year since I enjoy the golf course.  I've played golf for a long time and have kept a handicap since the early 90s.  I was a club asst. pro back in the 80s so I have been a pretty good golfer at one point in my life.  That old game shows up for usually only a few holes per round nowadays.  Anyway, I played in a 2 man best ball event that consisted of 5 9-hole matches.  My partner was someone I never met and my opponents were all members I had never met.  During one of our matches, my old game appeared and stuck with me for all 9 holes, shot one over par and I'm currently a 12 handicap so we crushed our opponents.  One of the 2 guys we played against called me a sandbagger on about the 4th hole and I shrugged it off thinking it was just gamesmanship.  Then he did it again on the 7th hole at which time I laughed and he looked me dead in the eye and told me my "reputation" was going to get around the club and "that's not a good thing".  I know, what's the point?

This guy has never apologized, never acknowledged my greeting, and never looked me in the eye since.  Unfortunately for me, I'm not at the club enough to interact with the rest of the membership like they can.  95% of the membership lives in the homes that surround the golf course.  I'm thinking that I'm probably better off avoiding the club events but that kind of sucks since I am competitive and really enjoy a real game.  My problem is that I don't succumb to pressure and in fact thrive on it.  So when I play in non-events, I enjoy the day, smoke cigars, converse with the other players, and don't really care how I score.  I'm afraid I'll be in this spot often if I consider playing in future events.  I played in the spring scramble and my team won which isn't helping my case but it's a perfect example.  I'm probably as good a scramble player as any team would want since my misses get completely ignored and my good shots can be terrific.  Now when I go to the club, most guys have their eyes down as I approach.

So my question for the country clubbers out there, what's my best move here.  Stay out of competitive events, or just say f-it, I'm playing, or is there an amount of time I should spend socializing with the members before I compete again?  Did I breach some protocol by performing well before I got known well by other members?

Would love to hear other CC stories about the dynamics of a club.

[Jimmy_jack]

Been a while since I was a CC member and it wasn’t a high flying club at that. They were holding on barely, and it’s now shut. At one time it had an amazing 27 hole setup. 
 

in your case I would just not pay any kind to these people. I know exactly what you speak of regarding a good round or set of holes appearing randomly. I played competitively in high school and had fleeting thought of attempting pro. Never would have happened. 
 

That said my short game is pretty killer when on and I hit long irons that most people avoid. If I played enough to keep a handicap those moments wouldn’t add up to impact anything significantly. However, the random club member I play with, having no other relationship, wouldn’t know that. Me saying I have a 12-14 handicap and playing like a 5 for that one round wouldn’t matter to that one person. 
 

you do you man. 

[LLC]

I certainly wouldn’t worry about it. Carry on as you wish without worrying about random jack a$$’s. 

[StogieSteve23]

You obviously have the knowledge and skill to have lightning strike at any point in time.  With that being said, a handicap is a handicap for a reason.  As long as you plug in your real scores (which I'm gathering you do) the GHIN system does the work for you. It doesn't lie... That guy is a jackwagon and doesn't like defeat.  As a former club pro, you know the background and the way the game should be played.  I wouldn't look too much into it since you know how good or bad you can play at any given time.  The golf gods have a funny way of humbling those who think they're above the game and believe they're owed something, which it clearly seems like this guy you speak of thinks he is.  Karma is a bitch and he'll get his one day.. Especially for soiling your reputation at the club.  One thing for him to think it, but it's another to talk shyte to everyone else.  

As Mr. Palmer always said "swing your swing." I wouldn't worry too much about it, but I'm sorry you're having to go through the BS.  CC politics are the worst.. 

[KCCubano]

I say F em all who hate and play your game! Thats just my personality! 

[PigFish]

"Sir... you are so right about reputations at the Club. While I attempt at steering clear of the sewing circle, your reputation for whining and crying over a damn game is apparently true..."

For the record, I have no 'Club' experience, and won't likely ever get any. -the Pig

[Chibearsv]

5 hours ago, KCCubano said:

I say F em all who hate and play your game! Thats just my personality! 

This is my personality as well.  I'm trying to "get along" with more people but maybe that's just not in the cards for me since I have a hard time "going along".  Always has been tough for me.  I'm tight with my small bunch of friends and wouldn't trade that for BS with a bigger bunch of acquaintances.  The brutal younger competitive part of me says to put the work into really getting the game into shape and crush them while my handicap is dropping and then drop the mic and give up the competitions.  As @StogieSteve23 mentioned though, that Karma thing is a bitch. 😁

 

5 hours ago, PigFish said:

"Sir... you are so right about reputations at the Club. While I attempt at steering clear of the sewing circle, your reputation for whining and crying over a damn game is apparently true..."

For the record, I have no 'Club' experience, and won't likely ever get any. -the Pig

Love it

[NicPac]

I’m a member at a club and in my experience there are just some guys who take the tournaments/events a bit to serious. Or a bit more serious than the rest of us. They live for them. They live for the action. It’s literally why they are members. I wouldn’t worry about those guys. If you keep a legit handicap (which it sounds like you do) then you have just as much right as they do to compete. We have guys at my club that the only time I ever see them is at our big events when big money is on the line. 
 

We had our Member Member tournament over the past couple days and a guy playing off a 20 shot an 84 the first day and even par on the second 9 the last day. Needless to say his team won by a fair margin. His handicap was legit. He just had an amazing couple days of golf at the right time. Luckily for me he was on my Calcutta team so I was able to ride his shoulders to a nice little payday 😁😂

One last note. Most clubs have a Handicap Committee that monitor members handicaps and make sure they post all their rounds. 

[Bri Fi]

You mentioned he may have a house on the course. Find out which one and t off on his windows. Or cut the break lines on his golf cart. Or stick a fire cracker in a cigar and give it to him as a peace offering... In all seriousness it sounds like everyone there are a bunch of immature old men who think they are the cool kids in high school. F$@k them. 

[Chibearsv]

19 minutes ago, Bri Fi said:

You mentioned he may have a house on the course. Find out which one and t off on his windows. Or cut the break lines on his golf cart. Or stick a fire cracker in a cigar and give it to him as a peace offering... In all seriousness it sounds like everyone there are a bunch of immature old men who think they are the cool kids in high school. F$@k them. 

😆 I think you’ve nailed it!

[SpecialK]

I'm a horrible golfer and don't keep score... It's just my excuse to drink outdoors while doing something..  I'm not competitive and feel like life is too short and you should have fun... I wouldn't dare to make someone uncomfortable and feel what was done to you is rude and un-necessary..  You need to play your game and if a playing partner acts like that they aren't worth paying any mind . 

[Cairo]

A small percentage of the population are sociopaths--they can be anywhere and everywhere.

I grew up playing at one of those clubs--the best way to deal with the sociopaths is to calmly crush them on the course and calmly refuse to speak to them on or off the course--in truth they respect you for showing no emotion and treating them the way they deserve to be treated.   

Also, resist the temptation to talk about them to others--pretend they never existed and do not exist. 

 

[rcarlson]

1 hour ago, Bri Fi said:

You mentioned he may have a house on the course. Find out which one and t off on his windows. Or cut the break lines on his golf cart. Or stick a fire cracker in a cigar and give it to him as a peace offering... In all seriousness it sounds like everyone there are a bunch of immature old men who think they are the cool kids in high school. F$@k them. 

Yeah, aim right at BT Wheezy's house and help him ventilate the living room. 

They build fences around CCs to keep guys like me out.  Eff 'em all.      

[BrightonCorgi]

Haters will be haters.  Don't let anyone ever take your joy.  For all you know those guys could be the biggest tossers in the club.  Go, compete, and do as you are entitled.

[99call]

Social structures only ever mean anything, if you actually want to be a part on them.   These people sound like A-holes.    Just enjoy yourself. Wherever you go, whether it be skiing or golf, there are a stuffy elite desperately trying to make people feel like they don't belong.  They forget these are sports,  above all else. it's not about who you know, or how expensive your clubs are,  it's skill and application.........everything else is glossy bullshit

 

[Hammer Smokin']

[Ken Gargett]

7 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

Our company recently paid a country club membership for the execs that I won't use too often since it's not nearby.  But I do play there a handful of times a year since I enjoy the golf course.  I've played golf for a long time and have kept a handicap since the early 90s.  I was a club asst. pro back in the 80s so I have been a pretty good golfer at one point in my life.  That old game shows up for usually only a few holes per round nowadays.  Anyway, I played in a 2 man best ball event that consisted of 5 9-hole matches.  My partner was someone I never met and my opponents were all members I had never met.  During one of our matches, my old game appeared and stuck with me for all 9 holes, shot one over par and I'm currently a 12 handicap so we crushed our opponents.  One of the 2 guys we played against called me a sandbagger on about the 4th hole and I shrugged it off thinking it was just gamesmanship.  Then he did it again on the 7th hole at which time I laughed and he looked me dead in the eye and told me my "reputation" was going to get around the club and "that's not a good thing".  I know, what's the point?

This guy has never apologized, never acknowledged my greeting, and never looked me in the eye since.  Unfortunately for me, I'm not at the club enough to interact with the rest of the membership like they can.  95% of the membership lives in the homes that surround the golf course.  I'm thinking that I'm probably better off avoiding the club events but that kind of sucks since I am competitive and really enjoy a real game.  My problem is that I don't succumb to pressure and in fact thrive on it.  So when I play in non-events, I enjoy the day, smoke cigars, converse with the other players, and don't really care how I score.  I'm afraid I'll be in this spot often if I consider playing in future events.  I played in the spring scramble and my team won which isn't helping my case but it's a perfect example.  I'm probably as good a scramble player as any team would want since my misses get completely ignored and my good shots can be terrific.  Now when I go to the club, most guys have their eyes down as I approach.

So my question for the country clubbers out there, what's my best move here.  Stay out of competitive events, or just say f-it, I'm playing, or is there an amount of time I should spend socializing with the members before I compete again?  Did I breach some protocol by performing well before I got known well by other members?

Would love to hear other CC stories about the dynamics of a club.

i would make a point of signing up to play with this bloke as often as possible. i would chat to him up and down the fairways, knowing how much it irritates him. i'd buy everyone else in the group drinks and accidently forget him. and i would try and whomp him on the course (sadly my golf is not of the quality that i could do that but you sound as though you might, especially a little behind the scenes practice). 

and at the end of the day, i'd tell him i can't wait to do it again next week. 

[Chibearsv]

3 minutes ago, Heels82 said:

Can you please share some Caddyshack-esque stories soon from your Asst. Pro days?  

Probably the cake topper of stories that include numerous carts in lakes, 25 cent tippers, and cocky golfers that wanted to beat the pro (don’t ever assume the assistants are worse than the head pro by the way) was the time when I was rangering an outing and I watched a guy get so mad after he hit a tree with a shot, he ran to the tree and swung his club at it I guess to try to hurt the tree and/or break his club. Well he succeeded in the latter since he hit the trunk with the shaft. The club kind of wrapped around the tree before the shaft snapped and the broken end of the shaft actually impaled the guy through the neck and I mean all the way through. He was so drunk he hardly felt it and wanted to pull it out. Thank god I was there and convinced him along with his buddies to leave it alone.  I called the shop to call for an ambulance while I drove him back. He sat with me laughing about how stupid he was with half a golf club sticking through his neck. Thank god as it turned out he didn’t cut any vital arteries or veins. The dude was back playing the next weekend with a few stitches. He’s probably still showing off the scars. 

[StogieSteve23]

5 minutes ago, Chibearsv said:

. The club kind of wrapped around the tree before the shaft snapped and the broken end of the shaft actually impaled the guy through the neck and I mean all the way through. 

There was a guy at my old club back home when I was growing up who did this except it was his chest and he did die. Terrible that this happens. 

Ohh yeah, and assistants are a lot of the time much better than the head pro.. 

[DeskSmkr]

I don't know what best way to go here is. I also don't know much about golf or country clubs, they seem to be social circles. Wanting to be accepted and loved in a social circle is part of being human.

My opinion, calling someone out in front of others is bullying and attempting to cause drama and chaos without a solution.

My opinion also he may be projecting "sandbagging" (as a character flaw) onto you, because he can't accept to himself part of his identity is being a sandbagger, he rejects this part of himself, and "sandbagging" is not part of his image he wants others to see in him.

In my opinion, when someone has an issue with a brother, take him aside and privately explain. If there is no agreement, and situation warrants it, explain situation to two or three others then approach him again with those two or three, if that doesn't help, approach management. The dilemma is you are odd man out socially, no friends there with you/witnesses to trust to speak with him. Awkward place to be.

He may have sociopath/narcissistic traits, agitated depression, or an off day. Maybe he is a champion for justice, obviously misjudging the situation. Maybe he recently changed psychotropic medications and this was a side effect.  Maybe he is a jerk and totally unaware of himself. Maybe society enables the behavior.  Maybe this is his midlife crisis or his "somebody important" just died. I don't know.

My best move opinion - if I was going to the club again and this was important, take him aside and tell him this is what happened:

I'm really not happy with what happened the other day. This is what happened: My handicap was calculated following club rules before our game.  I had a good day on the course. On two occasions I heard I was a sandbagger, and my reputation at the club was on the line. I felt [whatever emotion you felt], is that what you meant? Wait for a response, no matter what the response is simply say "Okay" in an accepting tone. Expect another childish reaction. Drop it. Under no circumstances explain or defend. Be calm. He may go on a monologue, if he does, be detached and hardly listening and "yeah" "ok" "uh huh" look away, focus on something else intermittently, if this does not promote more reasonable behaviour, simply say, been wonderful, thanks for the chat, have a nice day, bye. If you must excuse yourself: calmly state this conversation is not beneficial to both parties, though I am open to your invitation to revisit at a time when mutuality can be reciprocated.  He may not do the name calling again, he may do it again and you may use the same tactic again. He may tell his friends. Regardless, you took the high road.

You played by the rules and did nothing wrong and had a great day at the course and someone chose drama trauma and chaos over gentlemanly conduct. Someone else made a poor choice in your presence. You just happened to be there. Nothing you could have done.

[Chibearsv]

18 minutes ago, DeskSmkr said:

I don't know what best way to go here is. I also don't know much about golf or country clubs, they seem to be social circles. Wanting to be accepted and loved in a social circle is part of being human.

My opinion, calling someone out in front of others is bullying and attempting to cause drama and chaos without a solution.

My opinion also he may be projecting "sandbagging" (as a character flaw) onto you, because he can't accept to himself part of his identity is being a sandbagger, he rejects this part of himself, and "sandbagging" is not part of his image he wants others to see in him.

In my opinion, when someone has an issue with a brother, take him aside and privately explain. If there is no agreement, and situation warrants it, explain situation to two or three others then approach him again with those two or three, if that doesn't help, approach management. The dilemma is you are odd man out socially, no friends there with you/witnesses to trust to speak with him. Awkward place to be.

He may have sociopath/narcissistic traits, agitated depression, or an off day. Maybe he is a champion for justice, obviously misjudging the situation. Maybe he recently changed psychotropic medications and this was a side effect.  Maybe he is a jerk and totally unaware of himself. Maybe society enables the behavior.  Maybe this is his midlife crisis or his "somebody important" just died. I don't know.

My best move opinion - if I was going to the club again and this was important, take him aside and tell him this is what happened:

I'm really not happy with what happened the other day. This is what happened: My handicap was calculated following club rules before our game.  I had a good day on the course. On two occasions I heard I was a sandbagger, and my reputation at the club was on the line. I felt [whatever emotion you felt], is that what you meant? Wait for a response, no matter what the response is simply say "Okay" in an accepting tone. Expect another childish reaction. Drop it. Under no circumstances explain or defend. Be calm. He may go on a monologue, if he does, be detached and hardly listening and "yeah" "ok" "uh huh" look away, focus on something else intermittently, if this does not promote more reasonable behaviour, simply say, been wonderful, thanks for the chat, have a nice day, bye. If you must excuse yourself: calmly state this conversation is not beneficial to both parties, though I am open to your invitation to revisit at a time when mutuality can be reciprocated.  He may not do the name calling again, he may do it again and you may use the same tactic again. He may tell his friends. Regardless, you took the high road.

You played by the rules and did nothing wrong and had a great day at the course and someone chose drama trauma and chaos over gentlemanly conduct. Someone else made a poor choice in your presence. You just happened to be there. Nothing you could have done.

I wish I were tactful enough to pull this off but I’ve got my own issues that get me angry in the face of stupidity. I appreciate the suggestion though.

3 minutes ago, Heels82 said:

Was it Deadpool by any chance?  We need these stories to keep flowing!  

Might have been with his attitude for sure

20 minutes ago, StogieSteve23 said:

There was a guy at my old club back home when I was growing up who did this except it was his chest and he did die. Terrible that this happens. 

Ohh yeah, and assistants are a lot of the time much better than the head pro.. 

Yikes. No doubt that’s happened more often than a reasonable person would think

[Erm310mce]

Dang…. This is why I hate competitive golf. Golf for me is fun and an excuse to smoke great cigars and be outside. 
 

I’m around a ten handicap, some weekends I shoot 77, some weekends 85… who knows what’s coming. I don’t practice enough nor do I really care enough, I just enjoy my time outside and thankful that I have a wife who encourages me to take time for myself. 

One of my friends invited me to his club, this club had a PGA event end a day prior and the viewing stands were still up around the course. We get to the tee box and one member was hell bent on a money match. I declined nicely.. they all pressed, I finally said that I would do whatever. We settled on a $20 Nassau… so not that much… until we started pressing. 
 

We didn’t play the tiger tees but the course was still tough. Lightning fast greens, thick tall rough… really amazing shape. 
 

I played so well… fairways and greens, par after par. I dealt with the comments the whole match, “you brought a ringer… sandbagger… a 10, give me a break.” 
 

needless to say… after the presses they owed money. On 18, I took my hat off and said “Gents, I don’t want your money, I didn’t even want to bet, but I’m happy to buy you a beer.”  They left without paying and my buddy started to lay into them until I stopped him. I had great cigars, on a beautiful day, on a great golf course, played incredibly well and I couldn’t care less about them. 
 

Find better people to play with mate… sometimes that means a better course too   Life is short and as my Dad would tell me, the game of golf always brings out the man you are. 

[leebert]

Yeah, I get this. Similar game (played #1 in college - worked - occasionally game shows up - insane variation in posted scores). I also get the personality (f-u preferred response to any dickhead, but trying mightily to not be that guy, trying, trying, trying…). Also, have lived and gone to school in that area. In short: I relate.

If me, it’d depend on a few things:

• What club? There are only a few substantial, connected player clubs in that area (e.g. Medina, Shore Acres, Chicago CC, Olympia… maybe Skokie) that a negative rep can materially leak outside an insular group. The farther your club strays from there, embrace your inner asshole just short of receiving a warning. You’re marking territory.
• If in the ‘connected set,’ I’d follow an amended “Ken Strategy.” Embrace the guy, but in an honest, non-antagonistic way. (a challenge for me) Over time you’ll win him over, he’ll likely feel like a dick, and should the sandbag accusation arise, you’ve him in your corner.
• The only other mod to above is if he’s a total/known tool. In that case, everyone is already discounting everything that comes out of his mouth.

Shitty situation. When it comes together, you want to feel good about it, not have some lingering qualification tarnishing your round. 
 

Best, 

 

Lee

[mprach024]

Haha funny story @Chibearsv.  Don’t even pay attention to it.  Keep playing, the events are what give you the best experience for the club.  Every club has a-holes, and it’s a bummer your first interaction was with one of those.  Just keep playing, keep posting your scores, you’ll be fine.  Sandbaggers get stink eyes when guys know they are playing but aren’t entering scores, then shoot 10 under their cap.  That’s bogus.  If you’re entering your scores every time you play, there’s no argument to be made.  If you don’t have the GHIN app yet let me know if you need help, you can enter your scores from your phone right after you play.  You are “supposed” to enter “day of” nowadays since there are daily PCC adjustments based on conditions to the differential, and the handicaps update every night now.  If you forget and enter a day or two later just make sure you enter the correct date for your score.  All in all as long as you take care of your scores and index so it reflects accurately what you’ve been shooting, there’s no worry or stress.  Head out and play.

[Huckleberry]

Your mission if you should choose to accept it, play him again, beat his ass again.  Smile and be congenial afterward and don't worry about a thing!  It's not the club, its the person, every club has a few like them.  Every time they suck and lose its because they play worse than their handicap and their competitors play to, or better than, their respective handicap.

Kill em with kindness and don't give two Fs.