Best Ageing Cuban Marques?

[El Presidente]

This was asked of me yesterday. I am interested re your thoughts. 

Pick 2 only.

*I have kept the brands list to those that  have three or more readily available lines today. 

The question? 

The Cuban marque that generally benefits most from 5 years + ageing. 

[Cigar-Therapy]

I usually forgo voting on these and just seeing the results.  I don’t even have 3-5 years of experience with Cuban Cigars.  

[jakebarnes]

I said Por Larranaga and QdO, but could have also gone Upmann

[Ford2112]

Cohiba and Por Larranaga. 

[KCCubano]

I went Cohiba and PL but QdO in my experience improves significantly with age. Ive had boxes of LGC that were much better after 10+ yrs but not much left these days to even be an option

[Fuzz]

Easy answer for me, Cohiba and Por Larranaga. Cohibas get that great honeyed grassiness with hits of cream and Por Larranaga turn into pure caramel sticks with the mongrel of its youth taking a backstep.

[Blakes]

I went with Hoyo and QDO.

Cohiba, PL and QDO are the Marcas that stick out, but I find Hoyo really begin to shine as they age. There aren't many cigars that beat a well aged Des Dieux.

[LordAnubis]

Punch is my favourite ageing brand. I find some sort of marshmallow character to them that I think is unique to only punch. I have loved recent punch punch because I get that same flavour in a fresh cigar. Love it. 

[Tunkat92]

I feel like Cohiba and PLs hit there best at 5-6 years. I feel like many Upmanns just keep getting better every year. 

[Corylax18]

Regardless of "brand" all the tobacco used is fermented in the same fermenting houses, aged in the same warehouses, blended by the same blenders, and rolled by the same rollers. The Entire HSA lineup is more homogenized than ever. That's not all bad, in general current cigars need less aging to become approachable than ever before. But, that trend has shown itself across the portfolio, not just in one brand or another. 

[PigFish]

No damn difference. I good cigar now is a good cigar later!!!

[BrightonCorgi]

Punch & Upmann can go the long haul.  Back to the revolution or longer. 

[NSXCIGAR]

Benefit most I would have to say PL and Cohiba. You'll get the most gains from those two. Some other marcas might really develop after a while but in more marginal ways. 

[Tunkat92]

5 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Regardless of "brand" all the tobacco used is fermented in the same fermenting houses, aged in the same warehouses, blended by the same blenders, and rolled by the same rollers. The Entire HSA lineup is more homogenized than ever. That's not all bad, in general current cigars need less aging to become approachable than ever before. But, that trend has shown itself across the portfolio, not just in one brand or another. 

I’ve heard that several times but do not get the point. Different marcas have different profiles ( use different tobaccos) and clearly age differently. I’m not well versed in Habanos production but I doubt they have one farm, one fermentation facility, one blender, and one factory. I see your use of plurals in your statement but it seems to make it an oxymoron. Variables are variables no matter how similar you state them to be and that shows to me in final products. 

[El Presidente]

5 hours ago, PigFish said:

No damn difference. I good cigar now is a good cigar later!!!

......but can it be a better cigar later? 

[Islandboy]

I’ve had a couple of amazing experiences with 15+ year old Punches, and similar with HdM...they both transform into something completely different than their youth would suggest, IMO. 

[99call]

Looking at the responses, it seems people are falling into two camps

Camp 1,   Cohiba, PL.  for the heightened Honey/Caramel sweetness

Camp 2,   Punch, Hoyo, Upmann, QDO        for the heightened creaminess also sweetness

It's not a dig at Cohiba or PL,   but I would fall into the second camp.   I find these cigars to be much more interesting and generous as they get older, particularly Punch. 

For me, Bolivar, Sancho Panza, LGC, are the best ageing cigars,  As they age they often offer an unusual mix of florals and umami characters.   Boli Tubo no 1 being a great example

 

[MrBirdman]

My Cohiba have aged beautifully - they’re worth three times what I paid for them! 😅

[Fugu]

...and don’t forget Romeo y Julieta.

For me it even often boils down to single formats within a marca.

[JohnS]

1 hour ago, 99call said:

Looking at the responses, it seems people are falling into two camps

Camp 1,   Cohiba, PL.  for the heightened Honey/Caramel sweetness

Camp 2,   Punch, Hoyo, Upmann, QDO        for the heightened creaminess also sweetness

It's not a dig at Cohiba or PL,   but I would fall into the second camp.   I find these cigars to be much more interesting and generous as they get older, particularly Punch. 

For me, Bolivar, Sancho Panza, LGC, are the best ageing cigars,  As they age they often offer an unusual mix of florals and umami characters.   Boli Tubo no 1 being a great example

Well surmised there @99call! I have a foot in both camps in remarking that Cohiba and H.Upmann have evoked strong feelings of gratefulness in some of their aged vitolas over the years.

Having said this, I'd put up one cigar as having the biggest difference in blend over time for me and that would be the Ramon Allones Celestiales Finos Asia Pacifico ER. In 2010 it was nigh-on unsmokable, in 2022 it is heaven. That's quite a(n uncommon) journey.

[Rhinoww]

Well I’m not so sure I’ll be testing all of my aging Cohiba sticks. Starting to see aged sticks at retail for coro tubos hitting $120. That’s nuts.  In another year or two I may very well be submitting some of my stick for consideration on BR if trends continue.

I have yet to have a coro that I loved. But I might love getting $1800 for 15 tubos. Two boxes of aged tubos now equal the cost of two upgraded r/t tickets to Japan from the states if those sticks recently advertised actually sell. I certainly can’t tell my wife - she booked some tickets yesterday to Japan. 
So age must either create the magic of a nice trip abroad, or I’m hitting the road after parting w a few boxes in a few years. Most of my coro are 18/19/20. A smattering of 16/17. So soon I should get a sense. 

And while I’m at it, get off my lawn. 😂

Seriously though I am aging mostly Hoyo, Bolivar and Partagas with a bit of upmann mixed in. These are my go to marcas and I have the most on hand. 
 

I am still waiting for some Cohiba magic. They may fortunately just not be in my wheelhouse. If that’s the case in a few more years, looks like I’ll be taking some really nice vacations when I retire in 3-5 years. 

[PigFish]

7 hours ago, El Presidente said:

......but can it be a better cigar later? 

As it can only be smoked once. We will never know now will we?

With most folks not being able to blind judge a cigar by simply identifying it. How do they really believe that the ones they pick off the table and shrink wrap are going to be better than the ones they don’t pick?

Just store them all right and pray to live to see the day to smoke them. When you get there thank God you did. You could have been the sorry person that is deslagging the old mortar off the used brick facade your wife insisted be set over your new wood fired pizza oven!

[Corylax18]

8 hours ago, Tunkat92 said:

Different marcas have different profiles ( use different tobaccos) and clearly age differently.

They SHOULD, they don't always. 

8 hours ago, Tunkat92 said:

I’m not well versed in Habanos production

You can change that, light up a DC or two and dig into the below. Again, it tells you how thing should function, not how they actually do day in/day out, but you will learn a tremendous amount. 

https://www.habanos.com/en/the-world-of-the-habano/

8 hours ago, Tunkat92 said:

Variables are variables no matter how similar you state them to be and that shows to me in final products. 

In theory, sure. But the Theory and the Actuality in an impoverished country are two different things. Dont think about this as a Rich Anglo Saxon who's life has been mostly easy and comfortable. (not a shot at you, all of us on the forum fit somewhere in that category.)

Lets say Two cigar rollers are married, with two kids. Their Government salary and ration card might keep the family fed for 10 days, 14 if they're all small. What are they supposed to do to feed themselves for the remaining 16 to 21 days? They beg borrow and steal. To survive. 

The Cuban Cigar industry at large, is in a very similar position. Nobody involved, from the farmer to the high Ranking Tabacuba executive is provided enough by the government to do things right, all the time. They're constantly robbing peter to pay paul.

Beyond the struggles above, the way that they strip, sort and ferment the tobacco completely blows any "single vega" cigars out of the water. The second Tabacuba receives cured tobacco from the farmers, its stripped of the central vein and sorted by color and thickness. 

From that point on, any bale of tobacco could(does) have leaves from a dozen, two, three dozen farms. Different strains, different priming's, different growing conditions, different flavors. 

A master blender gets that bale a La Corona, tastes a few leaves from somewhere in the bale, then gets to making his recipe. The inconsistency within that bale makes any master blenders job a near impossibility to complete. So in summary, the entire cuban cigar industry isn't built to deliver "marcas" even when things are running perfectly. Things haven't run perfectly for decades, so add that to the equation.

[dominattorney]

10 hours ago, 99call said:

Looking at the responses, it seems people are falling into two camps

Camp 1,   Cohiba, PL.  for the heightened Honey/Caramel sweetness

Camp 2,   Punch, Hoyo, Upmann, QDO        for the heightened creaminess also sweetness

It's not a dig at Cohiba or PL,   but I would fall into the second camp.   I find these cigars to be much more interesting and generous as they get older, particularly Punch. 

For me, Bolivar, Sancho Panza, LGC, are the best ageing cigars,  As they age they often offer an unusual mix of florals and umami characters.   Boli Tubo no 1 being a great example

 

Couldn't agree more. I chose bolivar and partagas because I've noted alot of my older BBFs and sd2s are really backing off on their strength and letting some subtle flavors climb to the forefront. I have a 2015 box of tubo no 1 that are hitting their stride right now too. Nothing else in my humidor is coming close in terms of complexity. Not even a 2014 box of Cohiba siv III

 

4 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

They SHOULD, they don't always. 

You can change that, light up a DC or two and dig into the below. Again, it tells you how thing should function, not how they actually do day in/day out, but you will learn a tremendous amount. 

https://www.habanos.com/en/the-world-of-the-habano/

In theory, sure. But the Theory and the Actuality in an impoverished country are two different things. Dont think about this as a Rich Anglo Saxon who's life has been mostly easy and comfortable. (not a shot at you, all of us on the forum fit somewhere in that category.)

Lets say Two cigar rollers are married, with two kids. Their Government salary and ration card might keep the family fed for 10 days, 14 if they're all small. What are they supposed to do to feed themselves for the remaining 16 to 21 days? They beg borrow and steal. To survive. 

The Cuban Cigar industry at large, is in a very similar position. Nobody involved, from the farmer to the high Ranking Tabacuba executive is provided enough by the government to do things right, all the time. They're constantly robbing peter to pay paul.

Beyond the struggles above, the way that they strip, sort and ferment the tobacco completely blows any "single vega" cigars out of the water. The second Tabacuba receives cured tobacco from the farmers, its stripped of the central vein and sorted by color and thickness. 

From that point on, any bale of tobacco could(does) have leaves from a dozen, two, three dozen farms. Different strains, different priming's, different growing conditions, different flavors. 

A master blender gets that bale a La Corona, tastes a few leaves from somewhere in the bale, then gets to making his recipe. The inconsistency within that bale makes any master blenders job a near impossibility to complete. So in summary, the entire cuban cigar industry isn't built to deliver "marcas" even when things are running perfectly. Things haven't run perfectly for decades, so add that to the equation.

Also agree with this. It's why you get so many wild results everything there's a blind tasting on the forum. 

I stand by bolivar and partagas as choices for this question primarily because they're stronger generally than other marcas, and the aging takes some of the edge off.

[joeypots]

   Tobacco strain and vitola changes, never mind government and natural disasters, make assumptions about Cuban cigars difficult. IMHO. By just about any knowledgeable account Cuban cigars are much more approachable young than they were 20 years ago. I see comments about cigars being past their peak at 5 years. Most of the Cohibas I own suit me after 5 years hidden away. I cringe at the idea that this constitutes age unless 5 years constitutes the very beginning of the aging process. Magnum 46s and Sir. Winstons seem to have long legs, the rest of H Upman that I’ve smoked are much more approachable young. So, it’s probably more about which cigar ages best rathe than which marque ages best.

That said, I like Cohiba and Monte Cristo at 5 years +. 

RASS, JL#2, and PLPC are not to my taste young but with time come around magnificently. I only own those particular cigars in their Marque. ( I thought it’s spelled Marca)

Partagas, H Upman, and HDM benefit from time but are very approachable young.

I don’t keep too many cigars more than 5 to 7 years so I don’t really know what’s in store for my stash except that the cigars are harder to smoke carelessly now that they are worth more than my house.