International pricing policy by Habanos SA

[MrBirdman]

3 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Yeah none of the details are clear. It is starting to appear that there will be major increases and possibly there will be significant differences in the amount of increases in various markets.

That would be unavoidable if they’re trying to homogenize at all. But that would seem to work both ways - if Australian duties make cigar more than 20% more expensive than HK (now or later), will they have to lower the wholesale price? The latest article says “consumer prices must be indexed…etc etc” - who is responsible for enforcing this? The distributor or the retailer?

[Bijan]

2 minutes ago, MrBirdman said:

That would be unavoidable if they’re trying to homogenize at all. But that would seem to work both ways - if Australian duties make cigar more than 20% more expensive than HK (now or later), will they have to lower the wholesale price? The latest article says “consumer prices must be indexed…etc etc” - who is responsible for enforcing this? The distributor or the retailer?

I think they care about the practical cases of low duty markets/duty free where they can be flipped, muled, sent, whatever to more expensive markets. If there are minor differences between high duty markets that probably doesn't matter.

It's not a moral issue. They just want to maximize profits/revenues from the tiny trickle of product they can produce and sell.

[MrBirdman]

Just now, Bijan said:

It's not a moral issue. They just want to maximize profits/revenues from the tiny trickle of product they can produce and sell.

I would never suggest it is - just a practical question. That’s why I suspect a broader major price increase is in play as well (ie higher HK prices too). Otherwise some markets won’t see a change. 

[Bijan]

21 minutes ago, MrBirdman said:

I would never suggest it is - just a practical question. That’s why I suspect a broader major price increase is in play as well (ie higher HK prices too). Otherwise some markets won’t see a change. 

Sorry didn't mean to imply that.

No I mean HSA doesn't care about fairness between markets or that HK buyers are paying more than people buying in Spain or Cuba only dollars and cents going to HSA so if it's not perfect that's fine. Anything is better than what they have now from their perspective.

Edit: before when everything including all Cohibas except behikes were always in stock the situation was different.

[MrBirdman]

27 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Edit: before when everything including all Cohibas except behikes were always in stock the situation was different.

This is why I think they are planning on reduced production long term, at least of Cohiba. It may be artificial, it might be unavoidable, but you can’t flood the market with “hyper-premium” products if that’s their target clientele. There’s only so many hours in the day to smoke cigars, and eventually excess stock will get discounted. 

If they use the extra capacity to make other regular production more available, might be an acceptable trade off after all. I would love easier access to Monte Especial and RyJ Churchills.

[JohnnyO]

17 hours ago, Ryan said:

I can confirm that some price increases have started in Spain since last Friday. I give Friday's prices and today's.

Cohiba Siglo VI, was €31.10, now €37.80, + 21.5%

 Lancero, 29 - 35.3, about + 20%

Robusto, 23.6 - 27.3, about +15.5%

Esplendido, 35.9 - 43.6, about +20%

Trinidad

Fundadores 17 - 17.7

La Trova, 19.40, no change.

Esmeralda, 14.3 - 14.9

And the best kept secret in Spain, Ramon Allones Gigantes, 12.40, no change.

 

So no 200% - 300% jump yet but there may be a series of updates.

 

It looks like Cubas pricing is going to be in line with the rest of the world. Recently I've seen Siglo VI- 30 Euros, Siglo IV-20 Euros in T3 and they will likely have another increase once it all goes full Hong Kong MSRP. John 

[inter4alia]

Have the actual prices been released yet or we still debating theoretical numbers? 

[TBird55]

 

[ha_banos]

There's another important point here. Now need to find other cheap cigars for giving out!

[KCCubano]

5 minutes ago, ha_banos said:

There's another important point here. Now need to find other cheap cigars for giving out!

Best secure a master case of Guantanamera

[Nevrknow]

6 minutes ago, KCCubano said:

Best secure a master case of Guantanamera

Not even to people I dislike. 🤣

[El Presidente]

Let it settle down a few weeks. Right now it looks like Spain is cheaper than Cuba 🤣

You know this restructure will be a train wreck.

Pull up a chair and watch it unfold 

[CaptainQuintero]

I wonder if this is all Cuba trying to make the most out of their horrific supply issues. They know they will only have extremely limited production for the foreseeable future, make this jump now so they keep similar revenue numbers coming in.

  If sales go bad they can reverse it, if it goes well they can stick with the pricing even when production ramps back up. Win win for them.

[cigarsdelcuba]

COHIBA - 138% TO 165% - DEPENDING ON CIGAR CATEGORY 

TRINIDAD  - 203% TO 209% DEPENDING ON CIGAR CATEGORY 

MONTECRISTO LINEA 1935 CIGARS - 194% 

ROMEO Y JULIETA LINEA DE ORO - 189% 

MONTECRISTO LINEA EDMUNDO - 23% 

PARTAGAS LINEA SERIES - 23% 

ROMEO Y JULIETA LINEA CHURCHILLS - 23% 

GLOBAL BRANDS REST OF PORTFOLIO - 13% 

HIGH VALUE BRANDS - 9% 

VOLUME BRANDS - 7% 

[Ryan]

10 hours ago, inter4alia said:

Have the actual prices been released yet or we still debating theoretical numbers? 

Any prices I have listed are official Spanish prices (primary channel on the Spanish mainland).

Changes will most likely be coming everywhere but they are the only hard results I have seen personally yet.

Having said that, those increases in Spain might not be related to the latest Habanos announcement. They may be the result of previously planned increases, with the big ones to come in the next few weeks... 

[karp]

9 hours ago, CaptainQuintero said:

I wonder if this is all Cuba trying to make the most out of their horrific supply issues. They know they will only have extremely limited production for the foreseeable future, make this jump now so they keep similar revenue numbers coming in.

  If sales go bad they can reverse it, if it goes well they can stick with the pricing even when production ramps back up. Win win for them.

This makes a lot of sense, especially if there is a shortage of rollers and return to "normal" production is uncertain. 

[JohnnyO]

Cigar Journal did a second write up, clearing up some of their miscommunications. The details are more specific and price increases have officially started in Spain moving towards Hong Kong MSRP. John

[ha_banos]

15 hours ago, KCCubano said:

Best secure a master case of Guantanamera

Wash your mouth out. Soap.

 

 

 

It's the only way to be rid of that 'g-twang'!

[JohnnyO]

2 hours ago, ha_banos said:

Wash your mouth out. Soap.

 

 

 

It's the only way to be rid of that 'g-twang'!

No, with bleach. John

[Tdm_86]

2 hours ago, ha_banos said:

Wash your mouth out. Soap.

 

 

 

It's the only way to be rid of that 'g-twang'!

Ain’t nothin’ but that G-twang baaaby 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

9 hours ago, cigarsdelcuba said:

COHIBA - 138% TO 165% - DEPENDING ON CIGAR CATEGORY 

TRINIDAD  - 203% TO 209% DEPENDING ON CIGAR CATEGORY 

MONTECRISTO LINEA 1935 CIGARS - 194% 

ROMEO Y JULIETA LINEA DE ORO - 189% 

MONTECRISTO LINEA EDMUNDO - 23% 

PARTAGAS LINEA SERIES - 23% 

ROMEO Y JULIETA LINEA CHURCHILLS - 23% 

GLOBAL BRANDS REST OF PORTFOLIO - 13% 

HIGH VALUE BRANDS - 9% 

VOLUME BRANDS - 7% 

Source? 

I'm sorry, but if the suggestion is that they're going to try and sell Trini Reyes for $500/box I'm highly dubious. Not even HSA could be that stupid. 

[SCgarman]

16 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Source? 

I'm sorry, but if the suggestion is that they're going to try and sell Trini Reyes for $500/box I'm highly dubious. Not even HSA could be that stupid. 

Replace stupid with greedy and I wouldn't doubt seeing $400/ box Reyes. Hey, if they want to sink an already floundering Titanic, God bless 'em

[NSXCIGAR]

26 minutes ago, SCgarman said:

Replace stupid with greedy and I wouldn't doubt seeing $400/ box Reyes. Hey, if they want to sink an already floundering Titanic, God bless 'em

If they're greedy $500--yes--$500 boxes of Reyes (current world price is ~$240 and this suggests a 203% increase) isn't going to enrich them. Everyone's greedy. The market determines how much anyone can charge for their product. $500 Reyes won't sell, period, end of story. It's too stupid--even for HSA. I'm going to have to see that before I believe it. If they're insane enough to try it it wouldn't last long. 

I'd also speculate the reason revenue is in the toilet is because prices have risen 40% in the last 18 mos. I think they've already exceeded the market-clearing price. Unfortunately, production has been so limited stock isn't piling up yet. Just wait a few months. 

[rckymtn22]

20 hours ago, KCCubano said:

Best secure a master case of Guantanamera

Might be the only cigars I can afford in a year the way prices are going.

[MrBirdman]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I'm sorry, but if the suggestion is that they're going to try and sell Trini Reyes for $500/box I'm highly dubious. Not even HSA could be that stupid

Great minds - my exact first thought too. I can’t even imagine the Chinese paying $30 for a minuto. Guess we’ll see how into tack they really are. 

And, to be clear, a 200% price increase would mean the boxes cost $750.