EAR: When trades go wrong

[El Presidente]

EAR = Email Assistance Required. 

 

"so that is the predicament I find myself in.  I traded 5 x 2013 Siglo VI and 5 X 2011 Sir Winston for 6 Opus X (a mix) and 4 Don Carlos Sharks.  You know I don't have a clue about NC's so I wanted to try some of the perceived best. I sent my end, he sent the OpusX but said he needed to wait for the Don carlos to come in as it was a trade. I didn't know about the trade when he struck the deal with me. It has now been 6 weeks and he hasn't responded to my emails for the last 2 weeks. I know this trade was done outside of FOH but I suspect he is a member here. Would you be able to find out? Sorry to drag you into this and I understand if you say off platform no can help"

So good members. How would you handle the above? 

For the record, no personal details held on FOH are ever disclosed to any member. 

 

• What should the  guy do in this situation?
• Have you ever been in a similar situation?
• What is the best way to protect yourself? 

[HarveyBoulevard]

What should a guy do in this situation?

- Live and learn and ask more questions when trading;

- Don't trade with this guy again.

Have I ever been in a similar situation?

- No, I try to be extra clear with all the details before an agreement is made.

- I very easily could be but I accept that as part of the risk.

What is the best way to protect yourself?

- Don't trade;

- Don't trade if you don't know the person;

- Don't trade if you don't know the person's reputation;

- If none of the above, expect to get burned once in a while and move on.

- Don't trade off platform unless you have experience with the other side.

[anacostiakat]

Yea.  I rarely trade these days.  In the past always dealt with someone who I either knew or was able to verify had excellent trader referrals/comments.  At this point all you can do is chalk it up as a loss.  

[ha_banos]

I'd tell the ... Guy... I'm bringing this into the forum, Instagram, all the FB groups,l, Reddit. Ask all those admins about him. Do a lounge lizards pod cast about it. And remind him I have his address... 🤬 He is not cigar folk!

[Bigkahuna]

Definitely the FB groups at minimum. 6 weeks is a clear scam 

[Hammer Smokin']

this is actually quite interesting. 

assuming the bad faith trader provided his actual mailing address (which we assume he/she has, as the OP sent the 10 cigars), I'd be popping it into google maps and making sure it is a real address (not a PO Box). 

I'm assuming the bad faith trader has used an incorrect mailing address, or a po box (which should have been a red flag). 

BUT if this is wrong, and the OP has the legitimate mailing address of the bad faith trader, holy fuck. The opportunities are endless. Delivery pizzas at all hours of the night. Signing up the address for the most ruthless mailing scams...truthfully so much could be done know the address that I have to assume the OP doesn't have the correct address of the trader. 

Cause if they do, personally, I'd have more fun than the missing / stolen cigars are worth. 

[DaBoot]

1 hour ago, HarveyBoulevard said:

What should a guy do in this situation?

- Live and learn and ask more questions when trading;

- Don't trade with this guy again.

Have I ever been in a similar situation?

- No, I try to be extra clear with all the details before an agreement is made.

- I very easily could be but I accept that as part of the risk.

What is the best way to protect yourself?

- Don't trade;

- Don't trade if you don't know the person;

- Don't trade if you don't know the person's reputation;

- If none of the above, expect to get burned once in a while and move on.

- Don't trade off platform unless you have experience with the other side.

Agree with this. 

[dominattorney]

I agree that trading comes with risks. I don't ever do it unless face to face. If I were inclined to blind trade online I'd be completely cognizant of the possibility of getting burned. Heck things can even innocently get lost in the mail in the best of times. 

I like @Hammer Smokin' s idea. Lol. Better than pizzas, the guy sounds like he needs a new nex toy or two. 

Disclaimer. The above is not legal advice. It is merely hilarious. 

[vladdraq]

I would fake a jab and get him with an uppercut. Old school style. Move on. Life is too short, to lose time and stress about it.

[rcarlson]

Throw your weight behind it directly.  

[Islandboy]

Wow, bummer to read about this, especially if the bad faith guy really is a member here. I’ve only traded with other members here, and I’ve had nothing but great experiences. Unfortunately this trade really started out on the wrong foot, with bad faith guy taking full advantage of his trading partner’s lack of knowledge of NC’s - no way are Opus X’s and DC sharks on the same playing field as the aged items traded.

I’d first follow @HarveyBoulevard’s advice - to live and learn. Then I’d quickly pivot over to @Hammer Smokin'’s philosophy and have some damn fun with it!

 

[BoliDan]

 

4 hours ago, HarveyBoulevard said:

What should a guy do in this situation?

- Live and learn and ask more questions when trading;

- Don't trade with this guy again.

Have I ever been in a similar situation?

- No, I try to be extra clear with all the details before an agreement is made.

- I very easily could be but I accept that as part of the risk.

What is the best way to protect yourself?

- Don't trade;

- Don't trade if you don't know the person;

- Don't trade if you don't know the person's reputation;

- If none of the above, expect to get burned once in a while and move on.

- Don't trade off platform unless you have experience with the other side.

Yup, just take the L. I would trade with plenty of people on FoH, but I'd be picky about who still. 

[dominattorney]

10 hours ago, Islandboy said:

Wow, bummer to read about this, especially if the bad faith guy really is a member here. I’ve only traded with other members here, and I’ve had nothing but great experiences. Unfortunately this trade really started out on the wrong foot, with bad faith guy taking full advantage of his trading partner’s lack of knowledge of NC’s - no way are Opus X’s and DC sharks on the same playing field as the aged items traded.

I’d first follow @HarveyBoulevard’s advice - to live and learn. Then I’d quickly pivot over to @Hammer Smokin'’s philosophy and have some damn fun with it!

 

That was my thought as well, but I truly don't know much about NCs either. I've had eye of the shark before but didn't pay 50 usd a stick. That seems to be the going rate now after i peeked around. Camt say anything about opus x because there are too many of them. In any event, aged siglo VI and sir Winnie punch way above that weight class in price point, provided you've got close to a full box of them. 

[SCgarman]

First of all his last sentence was correct. He should not drag you (Rob) into this and Rob should certainly say "off platform, no can help". Second of all the OP "suspects" the trader who shorted him may be a member here. That is just an assumption with no known fact. So ultimately, this guy should just pull up his big boy pants and suck it up and move on. Consider it a lesson learned and perhaps not make the same mistake twice. I personally cannot fathom why some run to El Presidente when they get themselves in a pickle and can't resolve their own issues in life like mature adults? Especially things that occur outside of this forum.

[benfica_77]

I don't trade at all for this reason. Chalk it up to a loss and a life lesson. 

There's only a very small handful of people I would trust to trade even on FOH, I could count them on my two hands and yes one of them is Ken for some of his precious SLR DC  

All joking aside if its a complete stranger the likelihood of something going south is high. There is no accountability for each parties. People get greedy since they want to make sure they were the ones that got the "good" end of the deal and some people like this guy really push it and scam.  

[Ford2112]

Any time I engage in a trade or transaction like this I make sure its something I'm willing to take a loss on . Sir Winnies are just too rare and Siglo 6 are too expensive. Lesson learned I guess for the OP.

[jakebarnes]

There probably isn't much else to do outside of warn others of the bad faith of the other person to avoid future issues in the venue where the trade took place. 

That said, trust is really a key factor here. There are people I am willing to trade with (and I hope would feel the same about me) based on friendships and experiences here. But those took a while to build. 

[BrightonCorgi]

I keep it simple.

Assume trades are giveaways with a potential of getting something back.  Like loaning money.  Assume you are gifting money with a potential of a return.

An old saying, "If you want someone to get out of your life, loan them some money." 

[Lfhard]

That sucks to hear. Some people can’t be trusted these days. I’ve had my fair share of scams and like mentioned before it’s always a risk trading. I was smoking NC before I found out how to get CC. I was specifically smoking Opus X and Arturo Fuente. I can tell you one thing Siglo VI and Sir Winston are worth way more than what he was getting. I do have some left over sharks I can send him a couple if he still wants to try them out. I would count it as a loss and move on. 

[Chris P. Bacon]

That’s a tough break!

@El Presidente if you shoot me a PM with his info, I can send over a couple Sharks free of charge.

[Chibearsv]

I've had great experiences with all my trades with FOH members.  But if the first trade had been a bamboozle, I'd chalk it up to "live and learn" and probably wouldn't have traded again.  It takes trust to engage in a trade on both sides and if one side breaks the trust, it sucks, but there's not a lot that can be done except:

A. move on 

B. harbor a grudge - which requires too much wasted energy, or

C. 

19 hours ago, vladdraq said:

fake a jab and get him with an uppercut

 

18 hours ago, rcarlson said:

Throw your weight behind it directly.

If you can find the rat. 😁

[TBird55]

The only trades I have done, has been on this site. Nothing but great experiences. I would just move on and have nothing else to do with this person.

[wathabanos]

On 12/8/2022 at 6:14 PM, HarveyBoulevard said:

What should a guy do in this situation?

- Live and learn and ask more questions when trading;

- Don't trade with this guy again.

Have I ever been in a similar situation?

- No, I try to be extra clear with all the details before an agreement is made.

- I very easily could be but I accept that as part of the risk.

What is the best way to protect yourself?

- Don't trade;

- Don't trade if you don't know the person;

- Don't trade if you don't know the person's reputation;

- If none of the above, expect to get burned once in a while and move on.

- Don't trade off platform unless you have experience with the other side.

^^^ This right here and the tag line of "you can't trust the government" gives it a 100X more credibility!

It is a damned shame to read/hear about stuff like this, because I truly believe the cigar community is one of the few remaining communities that operate very close to solely on trust. It is guys like this scammer that don't mind sullying their reputation that leave a bad taste in the mouth of others and stifle the friendship and truly brotherhood that this community is. It downright pisses me off. If we're sending NC sticks for the wronged party, someone let me know and I'll send him some Man-O-War anniversary stuff and some MF Lancero #4s (amazingly excellent NC lancero)...

[Chas.Alpha]

Ok, you've waited a whole 6 weeks? Give the guy a chance. If he was trading on his future stock, shame on him. I see nothing in this post that would make me anxious. My bigger question: What inspired you to trade perfectly good cigars for the Opus X line? They had some merit back in the '90's but since then I have likened them to Cavendish pipe tobacco...

Trade with Scott and Mike. They always send more than they receive!!!

[El Presidente]

I wouldn't get involved unless the poor trader was a trader on FOH. He isn't.  

Regardless if the problem was off platform, I would want to know what is going on simply because I have a duty of care to members here. If I suspect something is wrong, I can't just let him trade here with impunity.