International pricing policy by Habanos SA

[NSXCIGAR]

5 hours ago, SCgarman said:

Heck, call me cheap. I wouldn't pony up $350/box for Cohiba Robustos back a few years ago. Was more than happy stockpiling boxes of RASS for $189/box. Now look at the price for CORO. 🤪

They were gathering dust at vendors at $350 10 years ago also. 

This is an issue of temporary scarcity. That's why this whole 200% price rise thing is bizarre. If prices doubled 5 years ago HSA revenue would have dropped by two-thirds. HSA price increases generally keep up with inflation. Cohiba, a little more but they tightly control the supply and Cohiba is something of a special case. The people with unlimited money are much more likely to be buying Cohiba at any price. But ultimately there are limited numbers of those people. 

Despite the higher prices I would very much expect HSA revenue through May 2021 to be much lower than it was through May 2019 or even May 2020. Limiting supply intentionally rarely results in higher revenue. 

Also, as @Bijan pointed out, no one is going to pay $20 for a Super Partagas. An across the board 200% price hike would be utter disaster for HSA. They may think they have a monopoly, and in one sense they do. But NCs have been gaining market share every year for 25 years. When the cheapest HM CC is $15 you are going to lose a lot of customers, particularly in places like Spain and Italy. 

 

[ha_banos]

[BrightonCorgi]

20 hours ago, SCgarman said:

Are you sure? People here are gladly paying $1300+ for a box of Esplendidos. Perhaps they buy just to flip them for $2000/box or so. Easy $700+ in profit if you have a buyer(s)

I'll take boxes at $1300, but cannot find any 😞 

[PigFish]

17 hours ago, 99call said:

I would agree with you about the word "Luxury" Ray.  It's always seemed like a bit of a thin word to me, as it really is only realised in the beholder.   Some might see clean water as "luxury" if they are used to having to drink dirty water etc etc.    It is a kings new clothes sort of concept. 

I do think you are slightly unfair to the process though.  Yes, Cuban cigars are very very far from perfect, and maybe they were better the further you go back in time.   To discredit a product that has gone through many processes by hand, that requires some degree of skill and ability I think deserves to be recognised. 

To follow your hotdog train of thought, here in the UK there is an Irish brand of sausage called 'Richmonds', they are baby pink, full of snouts, arseholes and mostly rusk and chemicals.  They taste cheap, and i'm guessing their production is highly mechanised, with little human involvement/care.     Now,  there are lots of sausage producers in the UK, organic, free range, rare breed, family farms ............yadda yadda yadda.     All of that extra care of the animals, quality, processes, does realise itself as quality within the finished product. 

I agree with you on all these negatives about CC's

- Trying to push stupid glitzy tacky boxes.   Mutton dressed as lamb

- New bigger RG, underfilled cigars, being nowhere near as good as a well made corona

- Poor construction issues being inexcusable with ever rising prices

However, I think the following deserves credit, 

- Any handmade natural product, that has gone through 100's of processes to reach the end user. 

- The years of skill held within farmers, rollers etc  

- Heritage and History

- The flavour and qualities that are specific to CC's, whether this be terroir or whatever

I think the commodity of care, attention, time, and skilled labour realises itself in any product to differing degrees.    Again whilst CC's are far from perfect.  When you get a good box, they are still rather splendid 

 

 

If compared to your luxury sausage. Size, taste, consistency, filling... does the Cuban cigar stack up?

No, it cannot even compare to a can of cola. A cheap garbage sugary drink, where 1 factory is likely more efficient than Cuba's whole economy.

Handmade items should not be given a pass as garbage because they are made in Cuba. Non-Cuban cigars fit the mold of 'luxury' items to a far greater degree than their Cuban counterparts. That being said, cigars are not luxury items... This is a regressive mindset.

If cigars are luxury items, Cuban cigars are cheap knockoffs (when viewed from a perspective of quality).

More on the regressive mindset of luxury later, if I have the time! The tube amplifier and the turn-table are similar in regressive luxury folly! MHO...

Cheers! -R

[99call]

2 minutes ago, PigFish said:

If compared to your luxury sausage. Size, taste, consistency, filling... does the Cuban cigar stack up?

No, it cannot even compare to a can of cola. A cheap garbage sugary drink, where 1 factory is likely more efficient than Cuba's whole economy.

Handmade items should not be given a pass as garbage because they are made in Cuba. Non-Cuban cigars fit the mold of 'luxury' items to a far greater degree than their Cuban counterparts. That being said, cigars are not luxury items... This is a regressive mindset.

If cigars are luxury items, Cuban cigars are cheap knockoffs (when viewed from a perspective of quality).

More on the regressive mindset of luxury later, if I have the time! The tube amplifier and the turn-table are similar in regressive luxury folly! MHO...

Cheers! -R

Ha,  Ray I think we are actually agreeing to some degree on this, but you've not noticed. 

I agree that the current QC state of affairs is pretty dire,  and has been for a long time.     My core point of defence for any laboriously hand made item, is the 'intent' is for it to be a lovingly made quality item,    now yes they may fail, but this doesn't mean that the concept of good people trying to do good things goes un-valued.   As when they get it right, it's far superior to anything a machine could pump out. 

You yourself are a part of a hand-made story.  You have had the skill and knowledge to have pin-pointed many failings in humidors, and sought to actually redesign and make something far superior with care and diligence. 

When I'm buying a can of Coke, I'm a perfectly happy with the product, but there is no extra value in it for me, it just is what it is.   If I were to buy one of your humidors, whether you would want me to or not,  I'm buying a part of your story, your personal take on the design etc etc.    I think thats something that wonderful about hand made products, the people and places, it has value to me. 

Again, I'm not arguing the case for CC's in particular,   I'm arguing that when done right, there is something special in painstakingly handmade natural products.  Whether is called 'Luxury' or whatever. I value things that have a finger print of the people involved.   If it was made at a third of the cost, 100% mechanised, I'm not sure Cuban Cigars would have ever have captured my interest in the first place. 

Best, Stefan

[bassistheplace]

sounds like the Cuban socialists are acting like capitalists?

They cannot meet the demand, so they are raising their prices until the 2 points meet. Am I missing something?

[ReturnFreeRisk]

Glad I stocked up when I did…now I’m afraid to smoke what I have.


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Similar situation for me. During lockdown having time to sample all the great quality of the 19-20s + seeing what was going on with prices on BR I said to myself we are going deep on inventory (relative to my collection size) So I probably ended up buying around 30 boxes extra earmarked for trading. If this mania and supply constraint persist too long those will become my vintage collection to pull from for years to come


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[dshot]

Oh well. I can't stress over things I can't control so if/when it happens I'll just find an alternative. If H.S.A wants to price 90% of it's consumers out of purchases then there will always be the next guy with a good product at a value. When there revenue dries up I'm sure they will be discounting deep to get people back or not who cares. Probably just order some Nudies at that time hahaha!

[ha_banos]

3 minutes ago, dshot said:

Oh well. I can't stress over things I can't control so if/when it happens I'll just find an alternative. If H.S.A wants to price 90% of it's consumers out of purchases then there will always be the next guy with a good product at a value. When there revenue dries up I'm sure they will be discounting deep to get people back or not who cares. Probably just order some Nudies at that time hahaha!

Thing is. I didn't get on the nudie truck this time around because space issues. But guess next time I'll have the space alright!

[Nevrknow]

3 minutes ago, ha_banos said:

Thing is. I didn't get on the nudie truck this time around because space issues. But guess next time I'll have the space alright!

Missed that train for the same reason. Hopefully it won't be to much longer before we see them again. After the reviews I believe I will have to curb my ROTT attitude and let them simmer a bit tho.

[El Presidente]

12 hours ago, Nevrknow said:

Missed that train for the same reason. Hopefully it won't be to much longer before we see them again. After the reviews I believe I will have to curb my ROTT attitude and let them simmer a bit tho.

They will be a regular sale item before long and shipped from Miami. 

On our zoom session yesterday I was blown away by one of the Canonazo blends. (Siglo VI). 

It would be nice to round out the year with Nudie:

Carlota

Lancero

Dalia 

Petit 109   (47 x 6)

Canonazo. (VI)

[TBird55]

12 hours ago, El Presidente said:

They will be a regular sale item before long and shipped from Miami. 

On our zoom session yesterday I was blown away by one of the Canonazo blends. (Siglo VI). 

It would be nice to round out the year with Nudie:

Carlota

Lancero

Dalia 

Petit 109   (47 x 6)

Canonazo. (VI)

May I go ahead and place my order now? 😉

[El Presidente]

1 minute ago, TBird55 said:

May I go ahead and place my order now? 😉

There will be no need 

..imagine a world of good cigars, decently priced....and  in stock 

 

[MrBirdman]

2 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

There will be no need 

..imagine a world of good cigars, decently priced....and  in stock 

 

In a world short of seemingly everything (including, apparently, even cooking oil), it sounds like paradise  

[djrey]

[PigFish]

On 5/2/2022 at 8:14 AM, 99call said:

Ha,  Ray I think we are actually agreeing to some degree on this, but you've not noticed. 

I agree that the current QC state of affairs is pretty dire,  and has been for a long time.     My core point of defence for any laboriously hand made item, is the 'intent' is for it to be a lovingly made quality item,    now yes they may fail, but this doesn't mean that the concept of good people trying to do good things goes un-valued.   As when they get it right, it's far superior to anything a machine could pump out. 

You yourself are a part of a hand-made story.  You have had the skill and knowledge to have pin-pointed many failings in humidors, and sought to actually redesign and make something far superior with care and diligence. 

When I'm buying a can of Coke, I'm a perfectly happy with the product, but there is no extra value in it for me, it just is what it is.   If I were to buy one of your humidors, whether you would want me to or not,  I'm buying a part of your story, your personal take on the design etc etc.    I think thats something that wonderful about hand made products, the people and places, it has value to me. 

Again, I'm not arguing the case for CC's in particular,   I'm arguing that when done right, there is something special in painstakingly handmade natural products.  Whether is called 'Luxury' or whatever. I value things that have a finger print of the people involved.   If it was made at a third of the cost, 100% mechanised, I'm not sure Cuban Cigars would have ever have captured my interest in the first place. 

Best, Stefan

Stef, 'magic' only goes so far. I too believe the Cuban cigar can be 'magical.' But putting romance aside, when the rubber meets the road, I make value judgements.

Am I getting a great or mediocre smoking experience for my money? It is that simple.

I don't need to smoke cigars. I enjoy cigar smoking. Take away some or much of the enjoyment, I stop. Magic... trying hard and failing has nothing to do with it.

Pat you kindergartner on the fanny and tell her you love her even when she fails. This is business, and it is not the same. The real world does not give you a trophy for finishing last. I don't see the romance in people working at rolling cigars for pennies, turning out shit... so that a government can make millions off the shit... 

If it tugs at your heart strings, send them your money. I won't try to stop you. I just think it is foolish and bad for the cuban cigar and smoking as a custom.

Cheers! -R

[Ryan]

I can confirm that some price increases have started in Spain since last Friday. I give Friday's prices and today's.

Cohiba Siglo VI, was €31.10, now €37.80, + 21.5%

 Lancero, 29 - 35.3, about + 20%

Robusto, 23.6 - 27.3, about +15.5%

Esplendido, 35.9 - 43.6, about +20%

Trinidad

Fundadores 17 - 17.7

La Trova, 19.40, no change.

Esmeralda, 14.3 - 14.9

And the best kept secret in Spain, Ramon Allones Gigantes, 12.40, no change.

 

So no 200% - 300% jump yet but there may be a series of updates.

 

[Bijan]

16 minutes ago, PigFish said:

Pat you kindergartner on the fanny and tell her you love her even when she fails.

Fanny means something tragically different over there

You're going to get cancelled 

[CaptainQuintero]

  I remember bang on a decade ago I could buy a 50 cab of aged Fundadores for £1100 at a UK B&M. 

  Prices will never go down, you're always going to get less for your money as time goes by. If you want/need cigars and have the means, go early imo

[99call]

13 minutes ago, PigFish said:

I don't see the romance in people working at rolling cigars for pennies, turning out shit... so that a government can make millions off the shit... 

If it tugs at your heart strings, send them your money. I won't try to stop you. I just think it is foolish and bad for the cuban cigar and smoking as a custom.

I'm not suggesting it's right to romanticise poor produce, or the poor treatment of people.  I agree with you that when the product is bad, the backstory, method of process largely becomes a pointless waste.  

What I'm saying is that stuff like DOP, painstaking process, labour intensive, skilled labour, are multiplyers for me when the produce IS good. 

I think the attempt to pigeon hole my point as rewarding last place finishers is pretty far off the mark.  It was a comment to simply suggest the idea of a luxury product seems to be far more appealing when its made in beautiful locations, by dedicated skilled people,    as opposed to being pumped out by a machine. 

We both agree that the current living and working condition are terrible in Cuba, and there is no romance or luxury in that.  

 

[riderpride]

20 hours ago, El Presidente said:

They will be a regular sale item before long and shipped from Miami. 

On our zoom session yesterday I was blown away by one of the Canonazo blends. (Siglo VI). 

It would be nice to round out the year with Nudie:

Carlota

Lancero

Dalia 

Petit 109   (47 x 6)

Canonazo. (VI)

I take it the trip was a success. Congrats!

[MrBirdman]

From what I can tell HK prices would be roughly a 50% increase from latest on FOH, in line with what Rob suggested. The articles aren’t being very helpful by failing to provide any context for the increases (2-3x old prices where?). 

[Bijan]

10 minutes ago, MrBirdman said:

From what I can tell HK prices would be roughly a 50% increase from latest on FOH, in line with what Rob suggested. The articles aren’t being very helpful by failing to provide any context for the increases (2-3x old prices where?). 

The next article says 2x-3x Cohiba and 3x-4x Trinidad starting in Spain.

Edit: 10-20% on other Marcas, I think.

[MrBirdman]

Just now, Bijan said:

The next article sayd 2x-3x Cohiba and 3x-4x Trinidad starting in Spain.

That’s probably what it means but it doesn’t spell that our clearly. It just says prices will multiply and then states that it’s taking effect in Spain first.

Still totally unclear how duty free will factor into this, unless HSA plans to require distributors to enforce higher prices for their duty free orders. And also unclear whether they are raising HK prices at the same time. 

[Bijan]

Yeah none of the details are clear. It is starting to appear that there will be major increases and possibly there will be significant differences in the amount of increases in various markets.