I can't see the attraction.

[El Presidente]

Fistly, condolences to the families and friends of those who have passed away on the Titanic submersible.Awful news. 

 

Can I say that as a serious claustrophobe, I would rather gouge an eye out wth a stick rather than hop in a tourism submersible for a trip to the Titanic or head to the edge of space in a  Virgin Orbit rocket. 😲

Don't get me wrong, I have an adventurous side. I have eaten cockroaches/grasshoppers,  I char the orange peel in my Negroni with my cigar lighter, I have been to Kens....more than once. 

But crikey.....deep sea sub dive or a intergalactic escapade? 

Assuming you received a free ticket....would you go? 

 

[Corylax18]

16 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Assuming you received a free ticket....would you go? 

I wouldn't have gone with these Yahoos. Unsurprisingly, lots of stories are starting to emerge about how shoddy this operation was. You would think that a $250,000 ticket would buy you some safety, but apparently not. There have been issues with this submersible on every single dive its taken, nobody should be surprised that the issues where eventually fatal. For what its worth, the 5 people who passed most likely didn't suffer at all. When something goes wrong at that depth, you're squashed into a mass the size of a tennis ball in less than a second. They probably didn't see, feel or hear a thing. 

This may be a new opportunity for the "everyman" (everyman that can blow $250,000 on a field trip) but people have been making this trek safely for decades now. People have been going significantly deeper than this for decades now and safely for the most part. 

I would love to visit the Titanic, or even the bottom of the Marianas Trench. But, going to space is much higher on my list. I'm hoping the price falls a bit in the next 20 years though. I've gone below 140 feet a couple times (42ish meters) and below 100 feet more than a dozen times Scuba diving. The risks/potential for death/serious injury are just as high doing that, especially when you're doing it in Cuba. 

[SCgarman]

Much safer to go into space than go 12,500 feet to the ocean floor to see Titanic. Me? I'll head into the garage with a fine cigar and a drink.

[El Presidente]

11 minutes ago, SCgarman said:

Much safer to go into space than go 12,500 feet to the ocean floor to see Titanic. Me? I'll head into the garage with a fine cigar and a drink.

Move over, I will be joining you in the garage. We can watch the news highlights. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BlueRidgeFly]

34 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Assuming you received a free ticket....would you go? 

Even if it was safe, no. Definitely not on my bucket list. I'm mostly a landlubber, or hanging out on the *surface* of the ocean... with a fly rod 😀

[SCgarman]

1 minute ago, BoliDan said:

I would go, but only in a proven sub, and I would have wanted to know failure/success history.

Going on a sub with a guy that was proud of beaking rules (that are backed by physics) and using metals that have never been tested at those depths. No way.

The thing looked shoddy as hell with equipment mounted to it without a cover. I can't imagine that would hold up against 6000 pounds PER SQUARE INCH.

A large portion of that submersible was carbon fiber! 

[Cigar-Therapy]

So - having worked for an airplane manufacturer- there are limitations on the number of times a capsule can be pressurized and de-pressurized before failing.
I’d imagine it is similar with this?
 

With the number of trips they’ve taken down - I wonder if there were different submersibles- or it was always the same one? 

 

I have done some dumb and sketchy stuff in my lifetime.  Going in a 💊 pill to the bottom of the ocean filled with 4-5 others and a sh!t can is not something I’d do.  Seeing the titanic sounds cool, but just give me an unmanned drone with cameras. 

[BlueRidgeFly]

From what little I know about carbon fiber from cycling and fishing, when its max load or whatever it's called is exceeded, it's prone to sudden and dramatic failure. Also see the Airbus plane crash in NY in 2001 (CF tail), and occasional CF bicycle frame failures. I personally dinged a graphite (i.e. CF) fly rod that seemed fine for a few casts afterwards, then exploded in that exact spot when a hooked fish bent the rod. There's probably a thorough inspection protocol for things like planes, and I would hope for subs made out of the stuff. Anyway... I'm staying away from the subs.

[Nevrknow]

Reminds me of a guy who used to "propel" himself skyward by detonating dynamite under a steel plate that he stood on.

He eventually got a lesson in " metal fatigue ".

[LLC]

Sad it turned out this way. Definitely not something I would do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Corylax18]

23 minutes ago, BlueRidgeFly said:

From what little I know about carbon fiber from cycling and fishing, when its max load or whatever it's called is exceeded, it's prone to sudden and dramatic failure. Also see the Airbus plane crash in NY in 2001 (CF tail), and occasional CF bicycle frame failures. I personally dinged a graphite (i.e. CF) fly rod that seemed fine for a few casts afterwards, then exploded in that exact spot when a hooked fish bent the rod. There's probably a thorough inspection protocol for things like planes, and I would hope for subs made out of the stuff. Anyway... I'm staying away from the subs.

Any material is prone to sudden and dramatic failures at the pressures present 2 miles down. In theory, carbon fiber could work fine, but theory and practice are two different things. Boeing had a cargo door violently explode last year during testing of their new 777 variant. It happened at over 2x design load, but that's why you test and retest and retest things like this. 

It sounds like this company took more than a handful of short cuts in the design and construction process of this submersible. They literally used a Playstation 1 controller from like 2001 to drive it. They didn't have any type of EPRB device at all. Its a private company and there aren't any established regulations

[Chibearsv]

Claustrophobic here too. If the ride was free and a team of engineers inspected and x-rayed the capsule and certified it safe under penalty of harm to their families, I’m not getting in that thing to go 5 feet down. 

[SpecialK]

was reading about an employee who was fired for reporting issues with the Carbon Fiber hull.. They didn't listen to him and then he took it to the safety organizations.. After that fired with Prejudice... of course now he's doing interviews with all his free time..

[BlueRidgeFly]

This looks like the design of the Titan here, or a predecessor that is very similar - https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-submersibles-under-pressure-in-deep-deep-waters

"...carbon fiber composite hull... permits creation of a pressure vessel that is naturally buoyant and, therefore, would enable OceanGate to forgo the use — and the significant expense — of syntactic foam on its exterior."

Didn't know the reason for that material choice. And:

"...faces potential failure in any one of three structures: the composite hull, the titanium end caps and the acrylic viewport. OceanGate designed a real-time health monitoring system that will acoustically monitor the composite hull to detect the pings and pops that signal to the pilot the risk of potential failure. Strain gauges will measure the health of the titanium end caps, which will see a maximum axial end dome load of up to 22 million lb. The viewport, says Rush, because it is acrylic, fails optically long before it fails structurally — and in this case, catastrophically — thus the crew will detect a problem visually first."

One of those bits obviously failed, maybe compromised during a previous mission, or maybe someone bashed something into it in transit, or who knows... and just not detected, maybe not inspected. Hope they can recover it and figure it out.

[anacostiakat]

Nope.  Not interested and definitely not with that thing.  Waiting to see if this company gets sued out of existence.

[Cigar Surgeon]

I read a rather poignant comment on Reddit the other day about this (surprising I know). It was something like: 

There are 10 submarines in the world that can dive to a depth 4,000m of more, and 9 of them are certified.

Guess which one the OceanGate was.

[Arabian]

paying quarter a million for a trip and signing a waiver form should raise the red flag.

[BrightonCorgi]

I must admit if it were a safer journey, I would like to see the Titanic. 

That being said, I know the guy who discovered Titanic, Dr. Ballard and his family pretty well.  I grew up around Woods Hole. 

[dominattorney]

I think the exclusivity plays a roll. Kind of like how rich folks used to climb everest back before it was more attainable financially (its still expensive by any stretch but not so bad that upper middle class people can't plan and save up for it). I went to see the titanic. I was one of like 15 people who could do it. And I'm one of a select few who can afford to blow a quarter of a mil to take the journey. 

Me, no thanks. Seems too risky and for a limited payoff. Cannot imagine visibility is all that great either. 

[Squarehead]

When the CN-Tower was build I worked on the crane to keep it running.I worked with my colleagues there at a hight of over 1500 feet and we didn't wear any safety harnesses.We knew of the risks but yet we did it.Despite of that I wouldn't have gone into that contraption to go down to see the Titanic

[TheFullMontecristo]

They've now digitally scanned/mapped the Titanic wreckage with extraordinary images better than you could ever hope to see looking out a small porthole in a tin can sub. 

[Duxnutz]

19 hours ago, SCgarman said:

A large portion of that submersible was carbon fiber! 

Whose failure mode is to shatter! 

[cigcars]

6 hours ago, anacostiakat said:

Nope.  Not interested and definitely not with that thing.  Waiting to see if this company gets sued out of existence.

     *They probably will despite their signing waivers that said in three different places that "death" could occur.

[cigcars]

    *James Cameron, the director of Aliens, Terminator 1 and 2, Avatar, TITANIC, etc. and who has been down there to view the sunken Titanic over 30 times in a vessel that he, himself, designed had told the people in charge of that contraption that that submersible was NOT seaworthy. But they didn't listen to him. Accordingly, that particular vessel had been on 13 trips to the bottom of the ocean to view the Titanic, previously. And this time it didn't make it. 

[Corylax18]

5 hours ago, cigcars said:

    *James Cameron, the director of Aliens, Terminator 1 and 2, Avatar, TITANIC, etc. and who has been down there to view the sunken Titanic over 30 times in a vessel that he, himself, designed had told the people in charge of that contraption that that submersible was NOT seaworthy. But they didn't listen to him. Accordingly, that particular vessel had been on 13 trips to the bottom of the ocean to view the Titanic, previously. And this time it didn't make it. 

Yup, below is a link to a video of him saying just that. He says he also advised heavily against using a previous composite submersible years ago. He called the recent search a "charade" and says he (and the coast guard) knew the submersible imploded Sunday night/Monday morning. There is more fact and coherent explanation in this 10 minute video than the media has provided all week.