Cuban vs none cuban on “the other” forum

[TheDonTX]

Whats up fellow B/SOTL’s! I consider our home here my home base but will venture out to the other forums. The amount of either hatred or down right uneducated discussions from people who act like they know what they are talking about has reached a weird level. There are some discussions on reddit right now that make me think I am on another planet. From guys telling newbies that Cuban cigars suck and taste bland to Cuba almost importing all of their tobacco so buying them vs new world doesn't matter. The craziest part is the amount of people who agree with these comments! 
 

So my questions and discussion here is this: is this a massive marketing disinformation campaign by new world cigar companies? Are we as Cuban cigar guys (and gals) elitist? Is my flavor profile wrong or something lol? Ive smoked a lot of new worlds (padrons etc) and Cubans blow them out of the water. Its not even close. Smoke texture, flavor, complexity and less “tariness”overall. Am I missing something? I feel like this isn't even an argument. Im in the twilight zone! 

[Corylax18]

13 minutes ago, TheDonTX said:

Whats up fellow B/SOTL’s! I consider our home here my home base but will venture out to the other forums. The amount of either hatred or down right uneducated discussions from people who act like they know what they are talking about has reached a weird level. There are some discussions on reddit right now that make me think I am on another planet. From guys telling newbies that Cuban cigars suck and taste bland to Cuba almost importing all of their tobacco so buying them vs new world doesn't matter. The craziest part is the amount of people who agree with these comments! 
 

So my questions and discussion here is this: is this a massive marketing disinformation campaign by new world cigar companies? Are we as Cuban cigar guys (and gals) elitist? Is my flavor profile wrong or something lol? Ive smoked a lot of new worlds (padrons etc) and Cubans blow them out of the water. Its not even close. Smoke texture, flavor, complexity and less “tariness”overall. Am I missing something? I feel like this isn't even an argument. Im in the twilight zone! 

Smoke what you like. Who cares what some sexually frustrated, over weight, assistant to the manager at a used car dealership thinks. I've never understood choosing a cigar to make someone else happy. 

Cuba is definitely growing its own tobacco, there are myriad issues, but that isnt at the top of the list:

[Puros Y Vino]

It's a bit of both.  Some NC producers feel the need to employ what I'll call "Cuban FUD" (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt).  Some are Cuban expats and have a beef with the Cuban gov't during the Revolucion (rightfully so).  OTOH, I know plenty of "Cuban only snobs". (myself included to some degree).  Many just prefer the flavour profiles of Cubans cigars over NC's.  Some, go so far as to call NC's garbage.  IMO, the competition within NC brands is massive.  There are literally thousands of marcas/cigars for the consumer to choose from.  Add the romantic lure of the Cuban cigar and you have a recipe for discontent.  Many here will agree or feel that CC's > NC's (even their best ones).  From an NC makers point, it's best to talk down Cuban cigars and focus on their NC competitors products.  Both sides have their fans and that exacerbates the rhetoric in either direction. 

It's funny.  The New vs Old world dynamic in cigars really shows the divide between the two camps.  I don't see that in the wine world.  There are definitely purists who will only drink one or the other but AFIAK, I don't see French wine producers slagging wine from Chile, Argentina, Australia, etc as a strategy. If anything, at least with the French, they owe a debt to the new world producers for saving their vines from rot and disease.  I might not be 100% accurate on this but I believe the grafting of French vine in New World countries allowed for a new, more resistant strain to proliferate in Old World countries.  I've only seen French vineyards mentioned in regards to this.  Not sure what Italian, Spanish, Portuguese vineyards had to contend with .

I'm on those reddit groups now and then as well.  Some members tend to work for NC companies or are rabid fans. So, expect viewpoints to be pushed.  This goes for both sides. Here on FOH, I believe there is a more balanced viewpoint.  While many of us here may no longer smoke NC's and are 100% in the CC camp. I think a lot of us have respect for anyone who toils in the cigar world.  From farm to shelves.  It's a tough business with a lot of enemies and could probably do without the infighting IMO. 

[Monterey]

No, Cuban's don't "blow them out of the water".  There are plenty of very fine non-cubans.  IMHO, you could be an elitist if you think Cubans are worlds better than non-cubans.  I prefer Cubans, hence being here, but I have plenty of non-cubans in my collection.

As for random rumors.  Ever consider that people bash what they like so as to drive down the demand?  I love seeing Cuban bashing.  Tired of these shortages!  More for me

[Corylax18]

9 minutes ago, Puros Y Vino said:

It's funny.  The New vs Old world dynamic in cigars really shows the divide between the two camps.  I don't see that in the wine world.  There are definitely purists who will only drink one or the other but AFIAK, I don't see French wine producers slagging wine from Chile, Argentina, Australia, etc as a strategy. If anything, at least with the French, they owe a debt to the new world producers for saving their vines from rot and disease.  I might not be 100% accurate on this but I believe the grafting of French vine in New World countries allowed for a new, more resistant strain to proliferate in Old World countries.  I've only seen French vineyards mentioned in regards to this.  Not sure what Italian, Spanish, Portuguese vineyards had to contend with .

What?!? Haha The French shit on everybody else's everything, all the time. They where DEEPLY humbled when they started regularly loosing in blind tastings to other countries, so I think the mystique(and that method for selling their product) died off naturally, not because French producers turned their noses down out of their own volition. 

I'll freely admit that I'm slightly biased, but that bias has been generated from my own personal experience. I buy mostly Cuban cigars and Champagne, I buy enough NC cigars and "Sparkling wine" to remind me why I prefer what I do. But, thats not to say there arent any NC cigars or Sparkling wines that are enjoyable. I haven't tried them, but I'm sure they exist. 

 

[wine_junkie]

18 minutes ago, Puros Y Vino said:

It's a bit of both.  Some NC producers feel the need to employ what I'll call "Cuban FUD" (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt).  Some are Cuban expats and have a beef with the Cuban gov't during the Revolucion (rightfully so).  OTOH, I know plenty of "Cuban only snobs". (myself included to some degree).  Many just prefer the flavour profiles of Cubans cigars over NC's.  Some, go so far as to call NC's garbage.  IMO, the competition within NC brands is massive.  There are literally thousands of marcas/cigars for the consumer to choose from.  Add the romantic lure of the Cuban cigar and you have a recipe for discontent.  Many here will agree or feel that CC's > NC's (even their best ones).  From an NC makers point, it's best to talk down Cuban cigars and focus on their NC competitors products.  Both sides have their fans and that exacerbates the rhetoric in either direction. 

It's funny.  The New vs Old world dynamic in cigars really shows the divide between the two camps.  I don't see that in the wine world.  There are definitely purists who will only drink one or the other but AFIAK, I don't see French wine producers slagging wine from Chile, Argentina, Australia, etc as a strategy. If anything, at least with the French, they owe a debt to the new world producers for saving their vines from rot and disease.  I might not be 100% accurate on this but I believe the grafting of French vine in New World countries allowed for a new, more resistant strain to proliferate in Old World countries.  I've only seen French vineyards mentioned in regards to this.  Not sure what Italian, Spanish, Portuguese vineyards had to contend with .

I'm on those reddit groups now and then as well.  Some members tend to work for NC companies or are rabid fans. So, expect viewpoints to be pushed.  This goes for both sides. Here on FOH, I believe there is a more balanced viewpoint.  While many of us here may no longer smoke NC's and are 100% in the CC camp. I think a lot of us have respect for anyone who toils in the cigar world.  From farm to shelves.  It's a tough business with a lot of enemies and could probably do without the infighting IMO. 

You’re right. That goes for winemaking too…instead of antiquated methods to make great wine like all their ancestors of past they sent kids to UC Davis and had pioneers like Henri Jayer to lower the vintage disparity and keep quality more consistent…

[Puros Y Vino]

Just now, Corylax18 said:

What?!? Haha The French shit on everybody else's everything, all the time. They where DEEPLY humbled when they started regularly loosing in blind tastings to other countries, so I think the mystique(and that method for selling their product) died off naturally, not because French producers turned their noses down out of their own volition.

Thanks for that perspective! 😁  While I've enjoyed wine for decades, I don't follow it like I do cigars.  I do recall that movie where a California wine took top spot at a competition and the French were shocked/mortified.

[wine_junkie]

3 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

What?!? Haha The French shit on everybody else's everything, all the time. They where DEEPLY humbled when they started regularly loosing in blind tastings to other countries, so I think the mystique(and that method for selling their product) died off naturally, not because French producers turned their noses down out of their own volition. 

I'll freely admit that I'm slightly biased, but that bias has been generated from my own personal experience. I buy mostly Cuban cigars and Champagne, I buy enough NC cigars and "Sparkling wine" to remind me why I prefer what I do. But, thats not to say there arent any NC cigars or Sparkling wines that are enjoyable. I haven't tried them, but I'm sure they exist. 

 

I would say at one point you’re right but now they’re more just extremely proud (much like the Italians) and just assume everyone knows they’re the best instead of going out of their way to shit on other products…there are a few big house French winemakers doing projects in Washington, California, Oregon and South America as I’m sure you know…

[Corylax18]

1 hour ago, Puros Y Vino said:

Thanks for that perspective! 😁  While I've enjoyed wine for decades, I don't follow it like I do cigars.  I do recall that movie where a California wine took top spot at a competition and the French were shocked/mortified.

"Bottle Shock" Its a good movie. 

I think French wine and Cuban Cigars are very similar in this comparison. You might get the very best 2% or 5% of wine/cigars from each country, but the rest of the top 10% comes from all over the world. I think a lot of the secrecy around the methods has gone by the wayside as well. Terrior is still important, but there are great winemakers all over the world. I think Cuban Tobacco is heads and tails above tobacco from any other country, but the rest of the world has them thoroughly beat on the processing/manufacturing side now, so the overall gap is smaller than its ever been.  

1 hour ago, wine_junkie said:

I would say at one point you’re right but now they’re more just extremely proud (much like the Italians) and just assume everyone knows they’re the best instead of going out of their way to shit on other products…there are a few big house French winemakers doing projects in Washington, California, Oregon and South America as I’m sure you know…

Agreed. I'm most familiar with the Taittinger/Domaine Carneros partnership, but I know there are others. I actually drink quite a bit of sparkling wine from Carneros, but I've never been a huge fan of the Family's French offerings. Its a bit odd. 

[helix]

Envy.

[Juliano88]

Smoke what you like. As someone who smokes both Cubans and New world's, there are fantastic cigars being made in multiple countries in different sizes and flavor profiles. A lot of my favorite cigars are Cuban, but at the same time a lot of my favorite cigars are New world's. There is no end all be all anymore as with Wine and Whiskey. I tend to not listen to the noise and enjoy the unique characteristics of tobacco from multiple countries and brands. 

[TheDonTX]

I knew this would be a fun discussion. One guy was arguing to me that soil and where you grow tobacco doesnt make a difference lol. Its funny you guys started talking about wine because that was the example I used. Same grapes in a different part of the world are totally different. Obviously a very simplified answer but you get it. 

[SCgarman]

Cuban vs. non-Cuban

Gibson vs. Fender

Rolex vs. Patek

BMW vs. Mercedes

Ferrari vs. Lamborghini

Apple vs. Samsung

And on and on. Social media just helps fuel the hate, greed, envy, mine is bigger than yours. I read but take it with a grain of salt. It's all just noise and will drive you crazy only if you let it!

[djrey]

I support any and all anti CC propaganda at this point. Seems convincing people they are trash is the only hope left of driving prices back to where they should be. In fact I just threw my whole collection in the campfire the other night. Total plugged crap filled with grass. Only NC for me at this point. 60 ring gauge plus. 

[porkchop]

Hopefully AI makes it possible to replicate growing conditions and Cuba loses its stranglehold on "Cuban" tobacco. My best and worst sticks smoked are CCs. Guess that speaks to the NC consistency observations. Grateful to have a rudimentary knowledge of CCs that the majority of NC shop patrons do not possess (thank you FOH). Cigar smoking tends to attract a segment that loves to d-measure (myself included at times) and Cubans feed into that - the high-end NC smokers hate being easily trumped. 

After 4 years of solely CCs, personally developed a disdain for Cuban government/attitude that truly affected my desire to purchase their sticks exclusively. 

[Fugu]

Well, those folks are right of course. it’s all just an acquired taste. I love my Cubans and I love me my

[Carrie Nation]

If you prefer Cuban tobacco over tobacco from other countries, then that’s fine. Nothing wrong with that. But if you think Cuban cigars are inherently superior just because they’re Cuban, then you’ve become a partisan jerkoff about your smoking. 

Nica, DR and Hond. all produce distinctly unique tobacco of very high quality. Some may be to your taste, some may not. But any attitude of absolute superiority is for people who are not particularly educated or experienced. 

And yes, most of the producers in Bordeaux completely sneer at California cabs with great disdain and regard Napa’s high fruit extraction and heavy oaking as the mark of winemaking for an unsophisticated American palate. But remember that Bordeaux producers also tear each other down as well…incessantly. A sad byproduct of being in such a highly competitive market. 

Re: the OP thinking that he was in the Twilight Zone. There’s something that you’re forgetting: This forum is a hive, as are most niche forums (that still remain). That’s part of the reason why you’re here. Not for dissent, but for the safety of confirmation by like-minded people. It’s good to leave the bubble from time to time. Your home is someone else’s Bizzaro World. 

 

[El Presidente]

I smoke CC and NC cigars 

I make or have made  CC and NC cigars 

I love good/great cigars. Where they come from is not important. 

To this day I have never smoked a 96+ point  NC cigar. I have smoked plenty of Cuban 96 + cigars. That is personal taste/subjective. 

I have also smoked plenty of dud Cuban cigars over the years. The market is littered with dud NC's. NC construction is far superior. 

People who espouse their opinion as if it is the word of the second coming  should be politely avoided. 

 

[Stanislaw]

5 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Smoke what you like. Who cares what some sexually frustrated, over weight, assistant to the manager at a used car dealership thinks. I've never understood choosing a cigar to make someone else happy. 

Cuba is definitely growing its own tobacco, there are myriad issues, but that isnt at the top of the list:

Sidebar:  Oh I never get tired of looking at pics like this, thanks for posting these

[TheDonTX]

10 hours ago, Carrie Nation said:

If you prefer Cuban tobacco over tobacco from other countries, then that’s fine. Nothing wrong with that. But if you think Cuban cigars are inherently superior just because they’re Cuban, then you’ve become a partisan jerkoff about your smoking. 

Nica, DR and Hond. all produce distinctly unique tobacco of very high quality. Some may be to your taste, some may not. But any attitude of absolute superiority is for people who are not particularly educated or experienced. 

And yes, most of the producers in Bordeaux completely sneer at California cabs with great disdain and regard Napa’s high fruit extraction and heavy oaking as the mark of winemaking for an unsophisticated American palate. But remember that Bordeaux producers also tear each other down as well…incessantly. A sad byproduct of being in such a highly competitive market. 

Re: the OP thinking that he was in the Twilight Zone. There’s something that you’re forgetting: This forum is a hive, as are most niche forums (that still remain). That’s part of the reason why you’re here. Not for dissent, but for the safety of confirmation by like-minded people. It’s good to leave the bubble from time to time. Your home is someone else’s Bizzaro World.

Twilight zone meaning all the hatred for CC’s. Personal choice is personal. I smoke some great NC’s but prefer Cubans. 

 

9 hours ago, El Presidente said:

I smoke CC and NC cigars 

I make or have made  CC and NC cigars 

I love good/great cigars. Where they come from is not important. 

To this day I have never smoked a 96+ point  NC cigar. I have smoked plenty of Cuban 96 + cigars. That is personal taste/subjective. 

I have also smoked plenty of dud Cuban cigars over the years. The market is littered with dud NC's. NC construction is far superior. 

People who espouse their opinion as if it is the word of the second coming  should be politely avoided.

The legend has spoken lol. Thanks for the response Rob. I wish I got some of those nudies! Life gets away from you sometimes but at least I am quick on 24:24! Next time nudies are avail I will be on it quickly…..

[joeypots]

I've had more poorly constructed Cuban cigars than non. 

[Juliano88]

46 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

I smoke CC and NC cigars 

I make or have made  CC and NC cigars 

I love good/great cigars. Where they come from is not important. 

To this day I have never smoked a 96+ point  NC cigar. I have smoked plenty of Cuban 96 + cigars. That is personal taste/subjective. 

I have also smoked plenty of dud Cuban cigars over the years. The market is littered with dud NC's. NC construction is far superior. 

People who espouse their opinion as if it is the word of the second coming  should be politely avoided. 

 

Great way to put it. Doesn't matter where the tobacco or cigar comes from. As long as it has good construction, nice flavors and a clean aftertaste/finish, I'll smoke it. 

[El Presidente]

40 minutes ago, TheDonTX said:

The legend has spoken lol. Thanks for the response Rob.

Legend in my own lunchtime! 

I have about as much cred as Ken. 

 

[MrBirdman]

Just to add to what’s already been said, there really are cigar smokers who value consistency over everything else. If that’s what you think is most important in a cigar, you’ll probably think NC cigars are much better than Cubans, and you’d be right on that score!

[cigcars]

*Well as I'm sure I don't have to tell any of you, my FOH Forum members - you can probably safely bet your entire year's salary...for the next 10 years...that if you go to the homes of these very same cigar store proprietors, sellers and all who chide, deride, and run down Cuban cigars - and take their key to their very private stash cabinets and stufff - that you'll find a boo-coo storage of Cuban cigars on hand in their private, hidden cabinets.  Yes, the other premium cigar makers out there, i.e. Padron 45th Family Anniversary, Arturo Fuente Hemingway and Don Carlos cigars, etc. do have a very good showing in their own right - still, there is just nothing like a Cuban cigar! Colombia has the best coffee; Japan has the best beef for consumption; India makes the best incense; Arabia has the best horses, etc., etc.,- Cuba has the best cigars on earth. There is just nothing like a Cuban cigar!