Cuban vs none cuban on “the other” forum

[rckymtn22]

4 hours ago, djrey said:

 In fact I just threw my whole collection in the campfire the other night. Total plugged crap filled with grass.

Ah man, I just got a perfect draw tool I would have taken them off your hands! 😉

[Kaptain Karl]

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

To this day I have never smoked a 96+ point  NC cigar. I have smoked plenty of Cuban 96 + cigars. That is personal taste/subjective.

This!!!! 
 

I went from 100% NC to 100% CC. This is the reason why. There’s some really solid NC’s, but I have never gotten that magic from a NC like I have from plenty of CC’s. 
 

However, I’m a flavor whore. If flavor is #1 for you, CC is king. However, there’s a large contingent of smokers who want the power of a NC, or the consistency of construction. For those people, there’s zero reason to try a CC.

There’s zero way you can say CC’s are the best, because they deliver in one area and lacks in others, while NC’s lack in that one area but is far superior in the others. 

[Chas.Alpha]

5 hours ago, djrey said:

I support any and all anti CC propaganda at this point. Seems convincing people they are trash is the only hope left of driving prices back to where they should be. In fact I just threw my whole collection in the campfire the other night. Total plugged crap filled with grass. Only NC for me at this point. 60 ring gauge plus. 

You married yet, Dallas? If not, your fiance may want to rethink her strategy! 😄

[Fuzz]

3 hours ago, El Presidente said:

People who espouse their opinion as if it is the word of the second coming  should be politely avoided. 

 

But, but, the second coming is here! Greek Jesus has already made his appearance!

[LLC]

😮 there is another cigar forum. This is the only one I visit and I think I will keep it that way. As for opinion, I’ll make my own. 

[Ken Gargett]

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Legend in my own lunchtime! 

I have about as much cred as Ken. 

 

what on earth did i do to provoke you today?

[ZigZauer]

I smoke about 1 Cuban and 2 non Cubans away. To keep it is just personal preference. I cannot stand the taste of young tobacco so I do not touch Cubans under 5 years old, generally speaking. There are hundred maybe thousand Ms of no Cuban brands and probably only 30 brands are smokeable and maybe 10-20 are really good brands. So if you try non Cuban without research you probably have very bad experience.

Some people like beef some people like lamb. That is all. It is ridiculous for anybody thing that smoking cigars from certain regions would give him the right to educate other folks, or make him feel superior.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ken Gargett]

15 hours ago, Puros Y Vino said:

It's funny.  The New vs Old world dynamic in cigars really shows the divide between the two camps.  I don't see that in the wine world.  There are definitely purists who will only drink one or the other but AFIAK, I don't see French wine producers slagging wine from Chile, Argentina, Australia, etc as a strategy. If anything, at least with the French, they owe a debt to the new world producers for saving their vines from rot and disease.  I might not be 100% accurate on this but I believe the grafting of French vine in New World countries allowed for a new, more resistant strain to proliferate in Old World countries.  I've only seen French vineyards mentioned in regards to this.  Not sure what Italian, Spanish, Portuguese vineyards had to contend with .

the french have done their fair share of disparaging the opposition but they are hardly alone with that. competitive market and tough times. 

you are talking about an aphid called phylloxera. i did a lot of stuff on this but it was years ago so apols if i am a little out. from memory, it arrived in the rhone in the mid 1800s, but i don't think it came via vines at the time. but whereas american vines had a natural resistance, european vines did not. so it started very slowly munching its way across europe. italy, spain, portugal, germany etc etc all infected, along with france. destroyed a massive amount of the vines. some say up to 90%. a few tiny areas and individual vineyards escaped, normally if sandy soils.

winemakers and governments and everybody tried everything to stop the march. competitions were held to come up with the answer. for many years, winemakers tried everything. giant syringes of some carbon thingee were injected throughout vineyards regularly. kids were literally marched out of school several times a day to piss on vines as someone thought that would kill it (the thing has 19 stages in its life cycle so it is seriously difficult to kill and there is still no known way to do so). one person insisted on burying a toad next to every vine to eat them. vineyards were regularly flooded. 

finally someone twigged that the vines in america were fine. why? so they worked out that by using american rootstocks, and grafting the french vines on to those rootstocks, the vines would be safe from phylloxera. so in that sense the americans saved wine. but i suspect the french tend more to the view that it was them who nearly destroyed it in the first place and that they then saved american wine by coming up with the answer. 

and it took decades for many to get the grafting done. you will not see any romanee-conti from 1946 to mid 50s because they waiting until then to graft that famous vineyard. 

phylloxera travelled around the globe and if you want to use european varieties then you need to use grafting unless you are in a region it has not made - but it is still on the march. you'll find that almost all vineyards around the world these days, well certainly a vast majority, are grafted. in australia, we have a number of places it has not made yet - south australia for one - which is why we many of the oldest vines in the world. but many vineyard stake strict precautions. if you are able to visit hill of grace, for example, you do so having stood, shoes and all, in a bucket of some solution which kills everything and then you have to put plastic booties over your wet, smelly shoes. 

 

15 hours ago, wine_junkie said:

You’re right. That goes for winemaking too…instead of antiquated methods to make great wine like all their ancestors of past they sent kids to UC Davis and had pioneers like Henri Jayer to lower the vintage disparity and keep quality more consistent…

spot on about the kids studying abroad, and also uni of bordeaux. never happened with older generations. even more important, the same kids work all over the world to gain experience. always foreign kids in so many of our vineyards. made a huge difference. and of course, has worked the other way. always aussies and others in french vineyards. 

interesting you quote jayer. the man made some truly brilliant wines, now legendary on the auction market (never owned any but i have drunk quite a few). but i would suggest that when he was working, few outside burgundy and serious burgundy lovers had any clue who he was. lots of disciples now. not sure i am on board with the idea that he was aiming to lower vintage disparity. think it was more about getting the best from every year from his vineyards. he knew that all years were not equal and worked with that. not sure the aim was lowering disparity. for me, the opposite. 

[wine_junkie]

36 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

spot on about the kids studying abroad, and also uni of bordeaux. never happened with older generations. even more important, the same kids work all over the world to gain experience. always foreign kids in so many of our vineyards. made a huge difference. and of course, has worked the other way. always aussies and others in french vineyards. 

interesting you quote jayer. the man made some truly brilliant wines, now legendary on the auction market (never owned any but i have drunk quite a few). but i would suggest that when he was working, few outside burgundy and serious burgundy lovers had any clue who he was. lots of disciples now. not sure i am on board with the idea that he was aiming to lower vintage disparity. think it was more about getting the best from every year from his vineyards. he knew that all years were not equal and worked with that. not sure the aim was lowering disparity. for me, the opposite. 

The problem in general is using reviewers and ratings to judge vintage disparity in general…I will say more often than not (see 98% of the time) I don’t agree with ratings not to mention that Burgundy never got any real love from reviewers until recently..bigger, brooding wines (Bordeaux, CdP and otherwise) stole the show while the true supply and demand beasts (see Burgundy) stayed safe.
 

Henri just wanted better wine with no other goal in site…but better wine making and more conscientious picking/farming/etc lowered the vintage disparity.  

[Ken Gargett]

1 hour ago, wine_junkie said:

The problem in general is using reviewers and ratings to judge vintage disparity in general…I will say more often than not (see 98% of the time) I don’t agree with ratings not to mention that Burgundy never got any real love from reviewers until recently..bigger, brooding wines (Bordeaux, CdP and otherwise) stole the show while the true supply and demand beasts (see Burgundy) stayed safe.
 

Henri just wanted better wine with no other goal in site…but better wine making and more conscientious picking/farming/etc lowered the vintage disparity.  

vintage rankings are always difficult. i've seen people give vintage rankings for australia. makes no sense at all. you can have such differences in the one region. plus wines ebb and flow. you are only ever going to get a very broad generalisation for vintages. 

not certain i agree re the Burgs. certainly far less emphasis for many years but there were definitely plenty of reports if you wanted them. also, aside from a few special producers, the quality was nothing like what we have today. overcropping, average winemaking, poor viticulture, many reasons. they got attention but for general purposes, less than other regions. understandable.  

[GoodStix]

12 hours ago, Puros Y Vino said:

I don't see French wine producers slagging wine from Chile, Argentina, Australia, etc as a strategy.

You're correct.  There was a time in past decades (including during the famous competition) where that may not have been the case, but in the modern context you are correct.  In fact, many French wine producers now actually own or co-own vineyards/producers in the New World, such as in South America, California, Oregon, and many other locales.  These days they're not dumpin' in their own backyard 😉

[wine_junkie]

24 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

vintage rankings are always difficult. i've seen people give vintage rankings for australia. makes no sense at all. you can have such differences in the one region. plus wines ebb and flow. you are only ever going to get a very broad generalisation for vintages. 

not certain i agree re the Burgs. certainly far less emphasis for many years but there were definitely plenty of reports if you wanted them. also, aside from a few special producers, the quality was nothing like what we have today. overcropping, average winemaking, poor viticulture, many reasons. they got attention but for general purposes, less than other regions. understandable.  

Not sure I follow…you mention recent red Burgundy…what are you saying about it? What vintage is recent for you? 

[Ken Gargett]

2 minutes ago, wine_junkie said:

Not sure I follow…you mention recent red Burgundy…what are you saying about it? What vintage is recent for you? 

now i don't follow. i did not specifically mention red. nor, as far as i can see, have i mentioned the word 'recent'? i would assume that if we are talking recent vintages that they are the same for everyone on the planet. the word does not have a different meaning elsewhere as far as i know. 

[wine_junkie]

29 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

now i don't follow. i did not specifically mention red. nor, as far as i can see, have i mentioned the word 'recent'? i would assume that if we are talking recent vintages that they are the same for everyone on the planet. the word does not have a different meaning elsewhere as far as i know. 

Modern and recent I assume to be similar…you speak about quality and overcropping and the like…what timeline?

[Ken Gargett]

the 70s and 80s were pretty average decades for burgundy for those reasons. a couple of good vintages - 71,78, 85 and things picking up by the end of the decade. 

[wine_junkie]

34 minutes ago, Psiman said:

Stay on topic. This wasn’t about wine. Start a wine thread for blowhard wine talk. This is about forums and reviewers bashing Cuban cigars not wine 

Hey, backoff. This is our forum 😂

[PuroDiario]

I like many from both sides. Something I have to say in my 10 years in US is that the vast majority of people o have met, seen, smoke cigars with here that are away from FOH or some other exceptions are smoking Cubans that are definitely not from Cuba though. Insane the Level of fraud on this topic. Couple weeks ago in a non descript are of NJ I stopped to fill a couple hours and do a video meeting at a cigar lounge. Lady was Dominican, very nice. I was alone so convo was fluid and she ended up showing me a massive room filled with what I am 99.9% sure were fake Cuban boxes. She is selling these boxes to the members of her lounge at a ~1.5-2x mark up to cost in Spain for example. She told me they bring them to her from Switzerland. When I asked if she is certain she told me she prefers not to know. She had the obvious fakes, top notch fake reserva and gran reserva and BHK boxes. But also regular production fakes I had never seen before such boxes of La Trova. I am talking about many many many thousands of dollars worth of fake cigar boxes. The membership and consumption in the lounge does not pay the bills. She was nice. 

[Ken Gargett]

1 hour ago, wine_junkie said:

Hey, backoff. This is our forum 😂

agreed!

but of course, my apologies for participating in a topic going off in other directions. i realise that is a first for this forum. but with respect, keep your insults to yourself. you may not have any interest in wine and fair enough, but that does not make those who do blowhards. 

[djrey]

15 hours ago, Chas.Alpha said:

You married yet, Dallas? If not, your fiance may want to rethink her strategy! 😄

September! She still has time to escape. 🤣

[canadianbeaver]

My beef about NC’s was always they do not change much in smoking experience during 1/3, 2/3, 3/3. When I joined forums in 2010 there was often a guns section and fighting about non-cigar shite. A trade or two brought me here. Civilized and in person events too.

Another thing that turned us cc was the B&M in our neighbourhood sold lovely cigars. Even with Canadian taxes, I could read about one here and go get it. I tried connecting with Reddit but it did not work. OLH, however is still my daily visit today.

CB

[wine_junkie]

14 hours ago, Psiman said:

Stay on topic. This wasn’t about wine. Start a wine thread for blowhard wine talk. This is about forums and reviewers bashing Cuban cigars not wine 

And on top of that you aren’t even involved in this post in any capacity….someone has nothing to do…

[Cigar Surgeon]

The "other" forum is /r/cubancigars

/r/cigars is the "other" "other" forum.

🤣

[TheDonTX]

55 minutes ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

The "other" forum is /r/cubancigars

/r/cigars is the "other" "other" forum.

🤣

The other other lol. R/cigars can be very entertaining….

[El Presidente]

16 hours ago, Psiman said:

Stay on topic. This wasn’t about wine. Start a wine thread for blowhard wine talk. This is about forums and reviewers bashing Cuban cigars not wine 

You either learn to play with other kids in the sandpit or you go and find another sandpit.  Take a week to give it some thought. 

[Chas.Alpha]

3 hours ago, El Presidente said:

You either learn to play with other kids in the sandpit or you go and find another sandpit.  Take a week to give it some thought. 

Since the off-topic is about being off-topic, remind me tomorrow to tell you about the delicate negotiations that are ongoing regarding my drive to Miami in May vs. my wife coming with me... 😔 Don’t worry, she’s delightful. 😀