Popular Post LordAnubis Posted January 7, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2015 It seems like it is time for moderate/peaceful Muslims to say "Enough is Enough. We, the majority (Are moderates the majority?) want to be peaceful members of modern society" Can this happen? On the one hand, what proportion of Muslims are truly moderates? Also, if they do speak up and demonstrate, would they be killed off? I am just asking the question. Why is it my responsibility, as a true follower of Islam, the peaceful, respectful, tolerant religion that i was taught, to denounce those who do not follow my religion? They do not practise what i practice, they do not believe in what i believe, why am i then accountable for their actions? Do all mothers speak out about a crazy woman who murdered 8 of her kids? Do all kids speak out about the kid who shot 21 people in a cinema? Do all cops speak out about the cop who killed an innocent man without provocation? Perhaps it is up to to us normal individuals to understand why things are happening, perhaps we should be asking inquisitive questions, investigating multiple sources and not just CNN, perhaps we should be investigating the religion and doing fact chekcing about what these nut jobs claim is islam, and just maybe us intelligent individuals should not be reacting with hatred or villification of an entire religion because of the 1.6 billion followers, a few hundred of them have developed a hatred for humanity and are crazy nutjobs. Also, no matter how you want to look at it, the western world just aholds a higher value on life than the developing or third world nations that has spawned these types of attacks. Do you know here in Mali the people don't name their children until they are 5 years old. Why? because the infant mortality rate is so high! Life has less meaning for those who have been raised surrounded by war, famine and death. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Omskakas Posted January 7, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2015 Perhaps it is up to to us normal individuals to understand why things are happening, perhaps we should be asking inquisitive questions, investigating multiple sources and not just CNN, perhaps we should be investigating the religion and doing fact chekcing about what these nut jobs claim is islam, and just maybe us intelligent individuals should not be reacting with hatred or villification of an entire religion because of the 1.6 billion followers, a few hundred of them have developed a hatred for humanity and are crazy nutjobs. While I agree with you in general, I've got to point out that there are far more islamist nutjobs willing to fight than few hundred. ISIS for example has 30 000+ fighters, Boko Haram 9000+ and Al Shabaab 5000+. My understanding is that those fighters would be willing and capable of doing that what happened in Paris today. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophistic Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 religious satire used to be a lefty thing, now its not so clear anymore, that was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 religious satire used to be a lefty thing, now its not so clear anymore, that was my point. I agree, it's not so clear anymore, but in the case of Charlie Hebdo, these guys have been at the left of the left for 50 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Why is it my responsibility, as a true follower of Islam, the peaceful, respectful, tolerant religion that i was taught, to denounce those who do not follow my religion? They do not practise what i practice, they do not believe in what i believe, why am i then accountable for their actions? Do all mothers speak out about a crazy woman who murdered 8 of her kids? Do all kids speak out about the kid who shot 21 people in a cinema? Do all cops speak out about the cop who killed an innocent man without provocation? Perhaps it is up to to us normal individuals to understand why things are happening, perhaps we should be asking inquisitive questions, investigating multiple sources and not just CNN, perhaps we should be investigating the religion and doing fact chekcing about what these nut jobs claim is islam, and just maybe us intelligent individuals should not be reacting with hatred or villification of an entire religion because of the 1.6 billion followers, a few hundred of them have developed a hatred for humanity and are crazy nutjobs. Also, no matter how you want to look at it, the western world just aholds a higher value on life than the developing or third world nations that has spawned these types of attacks. Do you know here in Mali the people don't name their children until they are 5 years old. Why? because the infant mortality rate is so high! Life has less meaning for those who have been raised surrounded by war, famine and death. It is not just your responsibility; it is all of our responsibilities. Silence, be it related to religiously inspired terrorism, the horrific conditions that most of the world suffers in, or to anti-religious rhetoric, makes these atrocities possible. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post El Presidente Posted January 7, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2015 Sincere condolences to our French brethren. What an absolute tragedy/disgrace. It is the responsibility of all to face and deal with the threat of home grown Islamic terrorism. Mus I respectfully disagree with your comment. If we are an active part of a religion then we have a responsibility to stand up and demand change and accountability. The Catholic Church and child abuse is a case in point. It is the work of many disgusted parishioners across the globe (as well as many outside the church) who demanded a lift in the veil of secrecy and a change in process. There have been enough attacks today. Let's not attack each other here. It is the type of social upheaval that the terrorists crave. . 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 We have to collectively stop kidding ourselves that likewise appeasing these extremists will get us anywhere. When they commit acts of terror....stop lying! The garbage truck driver in Scotland did not have a heart attack, the Sydney terrorist and the recent individual French attacks were not 'unrelated isolated incidents done by mentally deranged people'. They were done by people advocating their actions due to ISLAM. That is the undeliable facts! I don't know about the truck driver in Scotland, I don't know what to think about the Sydney guy, but I can assure you that no one in France takes the recent attacks as the fact of "mentally deranged people". latest news: the police know the name of the killers and found the place where they reside. An operation is underway. For those who can read french: http://www.lepoint.fr/societe/attentat-a-charlie-hebdo-les-trois-suspects-auraient-ete-identifies-07-01-2015-1894787_23.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ken Gargett Posted January 7, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2015 Why is it my responsibility, as a true follower of Islam, the peaceful, respectful, tolerant religion that i was taught, to denounce those who do not follow my religion? They do not practise what i practice, they do not believe in what i believe, why am i then accountable for their actions? Do all mothers speak out about a crazy woman who murdered 8 of her kids? Do all kids speak out about the kid who shot 21 people in a cinema? Do all cops speak out about the cop who killed an innocent man without provocation? mus, i know this was touched on the last time we had a tragedy. i agree with rob. your examples are not quite the same thing. kids are not out there shooting other kids 'in the name of kids'. ditto a mother does not kill children in the name of other mothers. tragically, these scum are killing in the name of islam. they have hijacked your religion. if you say/do nothing, it will continue. if genuine followers do not stand up, who will (the terrifying answer is a major war on islam)? and then, if there is silence, you inevitably, fairly or not, have a situation where outsiders assume that genuine followers do not oppose this behaviour. may not be fair but perception... edmund burke - "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent". and "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". personally, chalk up another special day to religion. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliverdst Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topdiesel Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hatred sucks, no matter the excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post El Presidente Posted January 8, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2015 Nothing will come of this. A couple of weeks and people will forget this happened and the blinders will be on as to what is really going on. If you read the comment sections just look what happens to people who say anything other than they are appalled an you will see several others ganging up on those for being hateful, intolerant, incompetent etc. There is also how we must change and accept to be more tolerant in society as we police ourselves. I really doubt these extremists share the same views yet no one dares speak about them other than to share some personal belief that these guys are victims in their own right some way. I just get the impression that many people will just assume it will go away on it's own if we avoid the problem and not offend anyone. Fos, I would be amazed if everyone was not aware that this form of terrorism (homegrown Islamic) is not only here to stay but likely to become more prevalent. Dealing with it is not a simple task particularly for any country who has had generational Islamic immigration. It becomes more complicated when you are dealing with multiple fronts (home based and Foreign ie Syria/Iraq/Nigeria/Somalia/Indonesia etc etc etc). No country can deal with this in isolation. It has to be dealt with in a global (multi country/multi faith) coordinated strategy which will take a generation (or more) to effect change. It has to start with Zero Tolerance. Zero tolerance in any country to anyone who espouses crime/retribution or support (written/financial/oral) for Islamic fundamentalism. It should be a criminal offence globally and enforced. Global (multi country multi faith) action on the ground to eliminate organised Islamic terrorist armed forces in all countries. Isolation (trade/seizure of assets as well as diplomatic) of any country (no matter how much oil they have) who does not : Provide equal rights and protections to women and children in all forms. Who provide support in any form including the financing/ facilitate the financing of any extremist or extremist group/sanctuary to known extremists and extremist schools. The second part has to be education and opportunity. The carrot to the stick. Education within our own countries and outside as to the sanctity of life, equality of all, personal responsibility, accountability for the betterment of self and all. Humanism within whatever faith you subscribe to. Opportunity entails a global right to be the best you can without fear of persecution or prejudice. The west in a co-ordinated manner can help lift the tide of living standards in these parts of the world as long as they meet the core tenets in point form above. Chances? Not good And yet the West came together after the 2007 Global economic collapse. This is yet another global challenge that requires a coordinated and consistent long term response. Appeasement (by sugar coating and not hurting feelings) should finish. Empower Muslim moderates on our shores and internationally through support. Know what is happening among the Muslim young in our countries and engage them through education and community interaction. If you are not with us (and I define "us" as those who believe in the principles of Humanism (a definition of Humanism that allows for individual religious freedom but not a religious dogma that seeks to segregate the value any individual) then you are an enemy of the state and will be treated as such. Just my 2 cents. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckSARTech Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Starting to get off the rails And there you have it people arguing over religion again! Mankind's Greatest every ongoing Con = Religion Kindly close this thread b4 you start poking each other in the Eye with Burning Cigars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckSARTech Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Fos, I would be amazed if everyone was not aware that this form of terrorism (homegrown Islamic) is not only here to stay but likely to become more prevalent. Dealing with it is not a simple task particularly for any country who has had generational Islamic immigration. It becomes more complicated when you are dealing with multiple fronts (home based and Foreign ie Syria/Iraq/Nigeria/Somalia/Indonesia etc etc etc). No country can deal with this in isolation. It has to be dealt with in a global (multi country/multi faith) coordinated strategy which will take a generation (or more) to effect change. It has to start with Zero Tolerance. Agreed wholeheartedly. Boy, the conversations I could have with some of you gents about what's gone on and hasn't lately!!! Enis and I have had a good talk about a few items in the past related to these recent events. This crap-show is only going to get worse. And it's not due to religion of any kind. It's solely due to a perverted few USING religion as an ends to their means. Using the grip that religion has on a region that is largely dominated by a very uneducated mass. And using them as cannon fodder. This is the new guerilla war. And it's not for a nationalistic cause or any noble act. It's built out of hatred (of whatever) and a pure want for power, and of both of those things to be so strong that all religious belief is so perverted and distorted. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangolf18 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 If one's posts get deleted can one at least get a notification? I haven't had any posts deleted until like the last week or so. If I broke some rule, then I'm sorry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginseng Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Deleting, locking, or hiding doesn't automatically generate notices. Neither should mods be expected to personally contact everyone who's had a rare post excision. Suspension of posting privileges generates notices. If a post you made goes missing, then that means a member of the moderating or admin staff considered the content or tone to conflict with the FOH rules here or here. Step away from the keyboard, take a breath, and try again...differently. Wilkey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 If one's posts get deleted can one at least get a notification? I haven't had any posts deleted until like the last week or so. If I broke some rule, then I'm sorry. Should a train of conversation get out of hand then all "carriages" to the train will be removed. There will be no direct notification/explanation as time does not allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post oliverdst Posted January 8, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2015 credited to Banksy 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginseng Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Why is it my responsibility, as a true follower of Islam, the peaceful, respectful, tolerant religion that i was taught, to denounce those who do not follow my religion? They do not practise what i practice, they do not believe in what i believe, why am i then accountable for their actions? Mus, the essential tension in your post is well captured between the two twitter hashtags #NotInMyName and #MuslimApologies. It is not an easy position to navigate and I appreciate the moral and ethical challenge in exploring for ourselves what constitutes the right thing to do. Wilkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Why is it my responsibility, as a true follower of Islam, the peaceful, respectful, tolerant religion that i was taught, to denounce those who do not follow my religion? They do not practise what i practice, they do not believe in what i believe, why am i then accountable for their actions? The day you will be hit because of the amalgam, you will understand why it was your responsibility as much as mine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZCUBAN Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Heartfelt condolences to all involved and to their family's Stereo-typing people by their Religion,cast, creed, colour,is not the way to go forward these EVIL people must be brought to justice,and there brethren as well I know a few Muslims and Mus is amongst them and he is a giant amongst men,and I have no doubts what so ever that his family's the same ,and the vast majority of the Muslim community,simply put really decent human beings. There are a great number of evil/scum bags in the Christian community as well ,the Oaklahoma bombing springs to mind . These terrorists want us to turn against each other and our Muslim neighbours,this is their objective ......Anarchy . Bad things happen when good people do nothing,these scum bags must be brought to heal and justice ,so the decent folks of this world Muslim,Christian ,Hindu,Buddhist and agnostics alike can live in a more peaceful and happier world Just my two cents worth P.S I my self am not religious but will not denigrate people who are ,I have always thought that this place F.O.H is better than this a place we can all come and leave the detritus of the world behind ,and all be better for it Cheers Steve 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stogieluver Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The day you will be hit because of the amalgam, you will understand why it was your responsibility as much as mine. Exactly. If the good Muslims of the world don't stand up against those who are murdering innocent people in the name of the prophet, some will begin to take it out against all Muslims. That has already started. For proof, look at the demonstrations that are starting to take place all over the world. It's only going to get worse unless Muslims begin to take their religion back. Imagine. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCgarman Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Sincere condolences to our French brethren. What an absolute tragedy/disgrace. It is the responsibility of all to face and deal with the threat of home grown Islamic terrorism. Mus I respectfully disagree with your comment. If we are an active part of a religion then we have a responsibility to stand up and demand change and accountability. The Catholic Church and child abuse is a case in point. It is the work of many disgusted parishioners across the globe (as well as many outside the church) who demanded a lift in the veil of secrecy and a change in process. There have been enough attacks today. Let's not attack each other here. It is the type of social upheaval that the terrorists crave. . Would be a good idea to lock the thread down before emotions and keyboards get out of hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jeremy Festa Posted January 8, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2015 Sad day for France. My heart goes out to them. As far as this thread's tangents go, and as a psychologist by trade who has worked in a London college with a large population of Muslim students, I would like to say the following:- This isn't about religion, as such. It is about education. I remember when there was consideration of including racism as a mental disability in the DSM (diagnostics and statistics manual). But if a child was born into a racist family, how could they escape the indoctrination? This is the same. There is no way for these kids to escape their lack of a moral and ethical education. They are taught hate, so effectively, under the guise of religion. They need proper education, at home. But most of all, they need to be taught love. Sent from my iPhone 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habanos2000 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I feel for the victims and their families in France. I abhor the threat that this is to freedom of speech. Frequently I hear of and see "artwork" that denigrates the Christian community but no one is getting murdered over it. As a Christian I am offended by it, but I cherish the freedom of speech more and will defend everyone's right to have it. We need to face the fact that if these terror attacks, and the associated mosques and Imam's that spread this hatred, aren't addressed and corrected by the Muslim community it will be addressed by others, either civilians or governments around the world, and will be a whole lot more messy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I feel for the victims and their families in France. I abhor the threat that this is to freedom of speech. Frequently I hear of and see "artwork" that denigrates the Christian community but no one is getting murdered over it. As a Christian I am offended by it, but I cherish the freedom of speech more and will defend everyone's right to have it. We need to face the fact that if these terror attacks, and the associated mosques and Imam's that spread this hatred, aren't addressed and corrected by the Muslim community it will be addressed by others, either civilians or governments around the world, and will be a whole lot more messy. I second everything mentioned here. I wonder if we all collectively are reacting to these attacks because they are more commonly occuring in civilized first-world countries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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