Chef's Knife...

[MrGinger]

I was in the industry for a while.  I have used Henkel, Wusthof, Shun etc.   I use Wusthof Classic knives almost exclusively.  Hold an edge well, and have lasted me decades.

[gormag38]

About a year ago I bought some Zwilling Five star knives….have been VERY impressed with them. Everyone who’s been in my kitchen prepping things comments on how much they love the knives. Just my 2 cents. 

 

*****Correction. I meant to say the Zwilling Pro Series, not the Five Star. The five stars look like stamped knives which are typically not what any serious cook would want. But anyways the Pro Series are good quality German Knives. Hope this helps. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by gormag38

[99call]

1 hour ago, MoeFOH said:

1 hour ago, 99call said:

Zwilling Henckels Four Star. really nice, robust, not hugely expensive.    Try to find the original all black handled ones, not the second release

Cheers! Having a look at these now. 

Japanese knives are lovely, but in a way they really benefit from being chosen out personally,  when a chef knows exactly what they want and for which specific purpose.  In that respect I think they might be for a point later on down the line. 

The great benefit with something like a Zwilling Four Star, is they are bulky, and if you wanted to go something like crack chicken legs, you'd happily just use the back of the blade, instead of having to switch to a cleaver etc.  I'd never feel comfortable doing something like that with a Japanese blade. 

I think whilst he's learning to sharpen knives as well, you don't really want to have you first knife being delicate, with carbon clouding, makers marks, damascus patterning etc etc.   they are beautiful, but when you're young they are all just extra things you can bugger up, or ruin.

[...]

If there is a shop specializing in refurbishing quality used knives in your area, that would be my first choice. Best bang for your buck, plus he will most likely want to buy his own regardless once he has acquired experience and preferences so no need to try and find his last knife from the get-go 😉

[MoeFOH]

8 minutes ago, 99call said:

Japanese knives are lovely, but in a way they really benefit from being chosen out personally,  when a chef knows exactly what they want and for which specific purpose.  In that respect I think they might be for a point later on down the line. 

The great benefit with something like a Zwilling Four Star, is they are bulky, and if you wanted to go something like crack chicken legs, you'd happily just use the back of the blade, instead of having to switch to a cleaver etc.  I'd never feel comfortable doing something like that with a Japanese blade. 

I think whilst he's learning to sharpen knives as well, you don't really want to have you first knife being delicate, with carbon clouding, makers marks, damascus patterning etc etc.   they are beautiful, but when you're young they are all just extra things you can bugger up, or ruin.

Thanks. Some great points. Will take into consideration. Appreciate it. 

[JY0]

2 hours ago, RedLantern said:

If he’s anything like the 16 year olds I know, I would probably go with some used wusthof classics. Pretty bulletproof knives and easily available. Find someone local to put a new edge on them.

This is great advice.

[NicPac]

I own a bunch of Shun knives and have been really happy with them. I also own a handful of other Japanese knives but prefer my Shun. Recently I found this forge out of Russia and have commissioned him to make me a 4 knife set for camping. Definitely overkill but I really like nice knives. You may consider having a custom knife made. If my Dad had done that for me I would treasure it for the rest of my life. Even if I ended up buying different knives later on that suited me better. I’m also in talks with another forge in Georgia to make me a everyday carry knife. I’ll most likely have him make me some kitchen knives in the future. His website is cattledogforge.com and the guy I’m having make my 4 knife set is named Vasverblades and he can be found on social media including Etsy and IG. Vasverblades would fit your budget, Cattle Dog probably wouldn’t. 

[Bijan]

7 minutes ago, Psiman said:

Henkels special edition Japanese layered metal knives are incredible but super pricey. they are their top of the line

I use their Chinese stainless steel knives. They are their bottom of the line. Still a nice upgrade from the dollar store steak knives I used before 😂

[Kitchen]

I grow up in kitchens and restaurants, and have used several different knives in my life.  I have settled on the Japanese brands as being the best out there for weight, balance and sharpness retention.  

Specifically I have a TOJIRO PRO Nickel Damascus Steel Chef Knife 270mm, and have had it for about 20 years now.  The main key with this knife is that the center strip of metal is extremely hard and therefore holds an edge for a long time, albeit it can be difficult to sharpen.  I have had used all of the German brand knives and none of them hold an edge as long as this one, none of them.  It is light weight and balanced beautifully at just above the bolster.  

https://www.tojiro-japan.com/products/tojiro-pro-nickel-damascus-steel-chef-knife-270mm/ 

It is a pricy knife though, so it could be hard to justify to buy.  Insofar as the German brands, I find that Wusthof has the best balance and similar to Tojiro.  

Now, as for blade length, 10 inches is best.  A knife shorter then this will be prohibitive for skinning, especially with sides of fish.  A knife too much longer tends to be a little unwieldy 

[MoeFOH]

16 minutes ago, Kitchen said:

I grow up in kitchens and restaurants, and have used several different knives in my life.  I have settled on the Japanese brands as being the best out there for weight, balance and sharpness retention.  

Specifically I have a TOJIRO PRO Nickel Damascus Steel Chef Knife 270mm, and have had it for about 20 years now.  The main key with this knife is that the center strip of metal is extremely hard and therefore holds an edge for a long time, albeit it can be difficult to sharpen.  I have had used all of the German brand knives and none of them hold an edge as long as this one, none of them.  It is light weight and balanced beautifully at just above the bolster.  

https://www.tojiro-japan.com/products/tojiro-pro-nickel-damascus-steel-chef-knife-270mm/ 

It is a pricy knife though, so it could be hard to justify to buy.  Insofar as the German brands, I find that Wusthof has the best balance and similar to Tojiro.  

Now, as for blade length, 10 inches is best.  A knife shorter then this will be prohibitive for skinning, especially with sides of fish.  A knife too much longer tends to be a little unwieldy 

Great info. Thanks! 

[RDB]

I really think at 16 there’s a big premium on durability and low maintenance - and not being too upset if it gets lost or damaged. So whilst I personally love Japanese speciality steel, that would lead me to a conventional German knife like Wusthof. And a combination sharpening stone! And a means of carrying it, like a canvas knife roll.

As for shape and length, probably 210mm Gyoto shape, but depending on the lad’s size you might want a slightly smaller blade?

 

[Kitchen]

For a home cook and someone just doing cooking as a hobby, an 8 inch (210 mm) blade is a great.  You probably don't need anything else.  

In a professional kitchen, that is a toothpick.  It just is not long enough. It will get you by most of the time, but for skinning whole sides of salmon, and other fish, it wont work.  You need a full 10 inch blade (sometimes longer) and 10 inches is still short enough to be able to use in a normal fashion.  

So, depending on life ambitions and if he really is thinking about becoming a chef, better to get use to a 10 inch blade earlier then later since that is the standard.  

Now, and what really matters, is making sure he uses his hands properly.  For a french chef knife, he will need to get use to holding the knife with his forefinger and thumb pinching the blade face just above the bolster with his three other fingers wrapping around the handle.  (This is why good knives are balanced just above the bolster, and need to be in order to keep your wrist from becoming sore.)  But, even more important, is how he holds the food he in cutting.  

Your other hand should always be cupped to form a claw with your thumb behind your finger tips.  If the knife slips, the side of the knife will just bounce off of the side of your fingers, as oppose to cutting into them.  This was a major pet peeve of mine when I was in the industry and have watched many new prop cooks cut their fingers after being warned.  Albeit I too only really learned the hard way as well.  

Another tip, and something really important in a professional kitchen, is learning to flip/toss a pan with your non-dominant hand.  Once again, for a home cook, not something that matters.  In a kitchen on the line, you always have tongs in your dominant hand, so you grab everything with you other including any pans.

It would also be good to get use to always having a towel in that hand.  The burners in a pro kitchen put out 40,000 BTUs at full blast and on a busy night all will be at full blast all night.  You tend not to pay attention to where the pan handles fall when sliding things around and it is common that one will be above a burner and heating to 1000+F.  Once again, I have, and have seen many a cook, latch onto one of those pan handles only to have the shape branded into my palm instantly.  And if you do this, dont expect anyone to take this as an excuse to stop working.  

[Chibearsv]

If I was selecting one knife for one of my kids to learn on, it'd be a German chef's knife.  As mentioned earlier, they've got more uses than the Japanese chef's knives due to their extra weight and durability.  The German knives don't hold a sharp edge for as long, so they require more honing and sharpening care which is probably a good thing to learn.  It won't be as precise as the thinner Japanese knife but may be more forgiving in case of misuse.  If he's already got some slicing and chopping skills, the Japanese steel is terrific for those tasks.  But if he's going to learn to break down poultry and other heavier tasks, the German knives can make those tasks easier.

Since I'm allowed to have more than one knife, I've got both a Shun and a Wuestoff 😁  And I like them both.

[El Hoze]

I own a hodge podge of different knives from cheapo Dexter to higher end end stuff and my views/preferences have changed over the years. Lately I’ve been liking the new(er) Wustof Grand Prix II, same blade as the Classic but doesn’t have the exposed tang and has a rounder more tapered handle with kind of a pebble grain to it. Just a basic good quality knife. To me it feels great in the hand. I’m far from a knife expert but I cook alot. To me knives are more or less about utility - though I do appreciate the slippery slope at the higher end. If you keep them sharp any knife will make the cooking experience more fun and more successful. 

[cnov]

I've had a Zwilling Four Star for nearly a decade and have gifted a few since.

Really well made and holds a decent edge. I prefer it to the couple of Wusthof I've used but they're fairly similar beasts.

I have an IO Shun boning knife that is okay, but it needs drying straight after cleaning otherwise it'll rust/blemish.

I think the German blades are a great starting point, Japanese a definite step up but it's the sort of thing you want to try out in a shop first as there is so much choice.

 

[Nevrknow]

@Lord Verulam any good stone will work.
 

We need to remember that a knife edge is not actually smooth but more like microscopic saw teeth. For lack of a better description.

But, always a but, synthetic stones have extremely similar sized grits. The teeth will all sharpen at about the same size so will all wear ( dull )at about the same rate.

Japanese natural stones have varying grit sizes in the same stone. The teeth get sharpened but at different rates. IE the teeth will all get sharp but at different lengths. The long ones dull while the shorter ones remain sharp. Hence a much longer edge retention. 
 

My harder steels do extremely well on Shapton glass stones and finished on naturals.

For most other steels I prefer my kohetsu 800 and 2000 stones.

I was recently told of Asian stores ( in USA ) have some cheaper ones that work great.  I have not found one yet but that would be a great find. I burn through stones. 👍🏻

[DeskSmkr]

Good question. I’ve no industry experience. This video helped me and I believe does a good job covering foundation points regarding kitchen knives. Hopefully useful and applicable:

For functionality and value, maybe Victornox Fibrox 8” or 10” (25cm) plain or fluted edge. I believe these are regarded as a decent knife in a commercial kitchen however no personal experience. https://www.victorinox.com/global/en/Products/Cutlery/Chef's-Knives/Fibrox-Carving-Knife/p/5.2003.25?mt_load=lt30

https://victorinox.com.au/swiss-classic-carving-knife-fluted-edge/

What I use casually:

japanese, Mac 10” was my choice and I’m pleased with every use. I love this knife. https://www.macknife.co m/products/chef-series-10-chefs-knife-bk-100

40+ year old 8” chef from Russell green river works (now company name is Dexter Russell) gets job done, American brand. Mine is old and tough, great steel, razor edge and gets used for more abusive tasks. Love this one too.

Two paring knives shun and mac. Mac with weird rounded tip. both get used about 50/50 and round nose Mac prevents me poking myself. Mac is odd looking, quite functional though, handle angle is raised https://www.macknife.com/collections/paring-knives/products/original-series-4-paring-knife-pk-40

These account for majority use.

[MoeFOH]

Just an update: thanks a bunch to everyone who gave advice and offered to help in getting this over the line. 

After taking everything on board and having my brain scrambled by the pros & cons of what I thought would be a super simple purchase and wasn't , I finally got the lad this knife from a great supplier in Perth. He loves it!... I think it's a great allrounder and good starter for him...

Now I just have to hope he doesn't slice a finger off with it. 🤦‍♂️

Tsunehisa Ginsan Migaki Gyuto 210mm

[RDB]

Wow, lucky boy. Is that Aogami Super Steel cutting edge?

[SenorT]

Looks great. I have a Hiromoto AS that's similar with a western handle. Great knife that I need to make more time to use.

[GoodStix]

Two professional chefs in the family.  They tried to explain to me (doh!) the difference between Japanese and German steel used in knives and why it matters.  Short answer, they and most of the chefs they work with (commercial kitchens) recommend Wusthof.  Open or closed tang Handle style is just a matter of appearance and cost -- either way Wusthof are proper full (not part) tang, and the blade quality and balance is superb they advised.

Edit: They gave me more info (and corrections above)...  Wusthof and Shun are "the gold standards", but you can needlessly spend more.  Shun is softer steel and can attain a sharper blade.  Wusthof is harder steel, holds its edge longer, and is easier to maintain.  Most of the chefs they know use Wusthof, it's the professional workhorse, and some will also have one Shun for more delicate work.  But most think Wusthof can be sufficiently sharpened for virtually all work.  They recommended two items:  Wusthof 10" chef knife and a ceramic hone.  Said Gordon Ramsay has a good YouTube video on how to hone your knife.  Said don't use steel hone as you can damage your blade, use ceramic.  Hone your knife before every use, and in between during long prep sessions.  Hand-wash knife, not dishwasher.  Don't sharpen yourself with wet stones in the beginning -- have it professionally sharpened if needed -- until you have more experience and can then consider wet stones.  Anyways, that's from them, two pro chefs -- I know little about this stuff.

Edited February 10, 2022 by GoodStix
add some information

[Chibearsv]

2 hours ago, MoeFOH said:

Just an update: thanks a bunch to everyone who gave advice and offered to help in getting this over the line. 

After taking everything on board and having my brain scrambled by the pros & cons of what I thought would be a super simple purchase and wasn't , I finally got the lad this knife from a great supplier in Perth. He loves it!... I think it's a great allrounder and good starter for him...

Now I just have to hope he doesn't slice a finger off with it. 🤦‍♂️

Tsunehisa Ginsan Migaki Gyuto 210mm

Beautiful. Nice choice

[GoodStix]

Good stuff Dad, good luck to your son 🙂

[Fuzz AI]

10 hours ago, MoeFOH said:

Just an update: thanks a bunch to everyone who gave advice and offered to help in getting this over the line. 

After taking everything on board and having my brain scrambled by the pros & cons of what I thought would be a super simple purchase and wasn't , I finally got the lad this knife from a great supplier in Perth. He loves it!... I think it's a great allrounder and good starter for him...

Now I just have to hope he doesn't slice a finger off with it. 🤦‍♂️

Tsunehisa Ginsan Migaki Gyuto 210mm

Such a fancy knife to cut the crusts off your fairy bread on Saturday mornings.

[Nevrknow]

Nice blade! Ginsan  is great steel. 👍🏻