That creeping inevitability...

[joeypots]

The horrible reality is that it only takes one infected person to start an epidemic in any given area. One.

I look at this website. Apparently Johns Hopkins hospital uses it in their calculations as well.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Total deaths in the USA?  According to the above website, 130,798 deaths in the USA since February 1, 2020. That's in  just under 20 weeks. I do hope that the recent surge in  cases here does not result in a surge of death but death is only the worst consequence. There are more and more reports of people who have been severely injured by Covid 19 and are looking at long lasting if not permanent damage. So, I'll wear a mask until a respected authority on the subject says it's safe to do otherwise. 

[BrightonCorgi]

2 hours ago, Capt. Corona said:

I detest these arrogant, ignorant Aholes that run around spewing out how it's against their civil rights to be told they have to wear a mask (face covering) when in a public environment and social distancing isn't an option.  I tell them all...you are intruding on my civil rights by not wearing a face covering and possibly shortening my opportunity to a long and healthy life by spewing your droplets in my airspace and subjecting me to the potential infection of covid 19.

There is no civil right to prevent a mandating of masks and which civil right are they intruding on by not wearing one?  I assume you are in the US?

[Capt. Corona]

1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said:

There is no civil right to prevent a mandating of masks and which civil right are they intruding on by not wearing one?  I assume you are in the US?

No kidding...but all the "Karens and Nancys" out there still spout it out and make wearing a face covering a political one.

[KCCubano]

Rob hit nail on the head. The Genie is out of the bottle. Here in Kansas City area the authorities said two days ago it was mandatory to wear a mask out in public. Definitely not happening although headlines in KC Star today was that the metro area reports record # of new Covid 19 cases. 

[BrightonCorgi]

1 hour ago, Capt. Corona said:

No kidding...but all the "Karens and Nancys" out there still spout it out and make wearing a face covering a political one.

What point should any mandate on wearing a mask be lifted?  When is social distancing no longer required?

[djrey]

13 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

What point should any mandate on wearing a mask be lifted?  When is social distancing no longer required?

Once they have total compliance there they’ll require everyone to be microchipped so they can see if people are gathering in large groups. You know, for the greater good of society.

[teamrandr]

I don't understand the mask thing either.  It really is a minor inconvenience.  I always wear one in stores just to be courteous. 

[MMarbs]

I think our gracious host is probably right. There won't be a total lockdown again, and not just because a great many people won't go along with it, but also because of the great deal of damage it will do both socially and economically as a result (we've already seen the damage that came from 1 total lockdown). There will most likely be targeted lockdowns for hotspots and then measures that require face masks for indoor areas where there are no lockdowns. And honestly, while I think resistance to mandates and requirements is reckless, I feel little dismay at that by this point. People have received so much mixed messaging from both pubic officials and epidemiologists - in more than one country - that this is now such a big comedy of errors. It's to hard to tell people not to congregate in large groups after they have seen images of thousands (even hundreds of thousands) of people congregating in close quarters for protests with no penalties, while a large cast of public and health officials encouraged those gatherings to take place. We shouldn't be shocked to see a fresh spike in cases - especially among 20 - 30 yr olds.

The resistance to mask wearing is really silly, but again, why be shocked? You have multiple generations raised in a society with the widespread idea that one's bodily rights are absolute. Those rights are conditional, not absolute, but it's pretty hard to get that reasoning across when people have the platitude of "it's my body!" entrenched into their thought apparatus.

But these concerns will all be moot when aliens invade the planet to cap off 2020.

 

 

[brianrex64]

My body My choice.................................. 
we are doing what we have to that is mandated by the state but i sure don't like someone dictating to me what i can and can not do. 

[Kitchen]

I think what everyone is missing, at least here in the USA (due to the press ignoring it), C-19 cases have been trending up for the last 3 weeks but deaths are continuing to go down.  This has been happening in states that started opening up early too.  This is not to say that deaths wont start going up (still too early), but it appears like mainly young people are now getting this.  

(Not to mention, like I've brought up in the past, if you significantly increase your testing of a wide spread disease, which we have done, you're going to find significantly more people who have it.  It's pretty simple logic, not to mention considering the low the infection fatality for those under 50, not too much to worry about.)

Young people who have almost no chance of dying from this are going out while older people are continuing to self isolate.  This is good for two reasons.  First, it shows that contrary to what many politicians shout, we are responsible and can handle this as a society without big brother looking over our shoulders.  Second, for every young healthy person who gets this and develops the anti-bodies, that is one less person who can't spread it to older people in the future.  This is exactly how we develop heard immunity.  

For those of you who insist that a vaccine is the cure, I personally think it is a fool's errand.  I dont believe we will ever get a vaccine for this, and if that is the case, the quicker we can get those whom are not vulnerable to catch it, the better for society.  As you can see, I am emphatically against the lock downs at this point and think, since week 5, they have been a bad idea.  

Furthermore, I believe that when we look back at this, we will conclude that the lockdowns caused more health damages then what C-19 would have if we just stayed open.  For instance, over 200K cancer diagnoses are made in the USA per month.  That means for three months, 600K people who have cancer were not getting tested and continued to walk around with a time bomb in them that they did not even know about.  And now that we have opened up, the back log in exams means many still probably don't know they have it.  How many of those cases would have been treatable back in March but will have metastasized to being untreatable by the time the diagnosis is made?  

Another ill effect of the lock down is the schools remaining closed and childhood development being stinted.  There have been a couple of studies showing children have a near zero chance of dying and that they (surprisingly) don't spread it to adults.  So I think the schools need to re-open with perhaps year long sabbaticals being given to any staff member that is in a vulnerable group or lives with someone who is.  

Now insofar as the masks, I personally will where one inside any establishment that requires one.  It is their property and they have a right to dictate what happens on their property.  I refuse to wear one outside.  I will not give into the hysteria that tries to sell the need to wear one in the open air in the heat in the sun when this is almost exclusively being transmitted inside.  

[Capt. Corona]

1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said:

What point should any mandate on wearing a mask be lifted?  When is social distancing no longer required?

Now you just want to argue for the sake of arguing.  Those questions basically are self answering.

For me, personally, I wouldn't care if I have to wear one for the rest of life if I thought it was evenly remotely protecting others around me from anything that I could possibly spread to another human.  Whether I know that person or not.  But unlike so many others in this country, that's just the unselfish way I am.

1 hour ago, djrey said:

Once they have total compliance there they’ll require everyone to be microchipped so they can see if people are gathering in large groups. You know, for the greater good of society.

And here come the conspiracy theorists in the middle of a world pandemic.

Just for your information this is probably happening in certain parts of the world so you may as well get in line.  They like to keep track of certain people.

1 hour ago, brianrex64 said:

My body My choice.................................. 
we are doing what we have to that is mandated by the state but i sure don't like someone dictating to me what i can and can not do. 

There is no where in this world you can live that it doesn't happen.  Well, maybe the middle of the amazon jungle.  But then you have the natives to deal with that could possibly use you for dinner.

[djrey]

1 minute ago, Capt. Corona said:

And here come the conspiracy theorists in the middle of a world pandemic.

Just for your information this is probably happening in certain parts of the world so you may as well get in line.  They like to keep track of certain people.

Haha it was more intended as a joke. But at the same time it has been discussed by politiotains. One thing about Americans, they aren’t really good about “just getting in line” ?.

[MMarbs]

15 minutes ago, Capt. Corona said:

 

And here come the conspiracy theorists in the middle of a world pandemic.

Just for your information this is probably happening in certain parts of the world so you may as well get in line.  They like to keep track of certain people.

 

Well, if that is indeed the case, those conspiracy theorists would have legitimate cause for concern. Public officials and private citizens can create safe, reasonable measures that reduce the spread of the virus and protect the vulnerable while not stooping to the level of doing something that you would find in a George Orwell novel.  

[Capt. Corona]

39 minutes ago, Kitchen said:

I think what everyone is missing, at least here in the USA (due to the press ignoring it), C-19 cases have been trending up for the last 3 weeks but deaths are continuing to go down.  This has been happening in states that started opening up early too.  This is not to say that deaths wont start going up (still too early), but it appears like mainly young people are now getting this.  

(Not to mention, like I've brought up in the past, if you significantly increase your testing of a wide spread disease, which we have done, you're going to find significantly more people who have it.  It's pretty simple logic, not to mention considering the low the infection fatality for those under 50, not too much to worry about.)

Young people who have almost no chance of dying from this are going out while older people are continuing to self isolate.  This is good for two reasons.  First, it shows that contrary to what many politicians shout, we are responsible and can handle this as a society without big brother looking over our shoulders.  Second, for every young healthy person who gets this and develops the anti-bodies, that is one less person who can't spread it to older people in the future.  This is exactly how we develop heard immunity.  

For those of you who insist that a vaccine is the cure, I personally think it is a fool's errand.  I dont believe we will ever get a vaccine for this, and if that is the case, the quicker we can get those whom are not vulnerable to catch it, the better for society.  As you can see, I am emphatically against the lock downs at this point and think, since week 5, they have been a bad idea.  

Furthermore, I believe that when we look back at this, we will conclude that the lockdowns caused more health damages then what C-19 would have if we just stayed open.  For instance, over 200K cancer diagnoses are made in the USA per month.  That means for three months, 600K people who have cancer were not getting tested and continued to walk around with a time bomb in them that they did not even know about.  And now that we have opened up, the back log in exams means many still probably don't know they have it.  How many of those cases would have been treatable back in March but will have metastasized to being untreatable by the time the diagnosis is made?  

Another ill effect of the lock down is the schools remaining closed and childhood development being stinted.  There have been a couple of studies showing children have a near zero chance of dying and that they (surprisingly) don't spread it to adults.  So I think the schools need to re-open with perhaps year long sabbaticals being given to any staff member that is in a vulnerable group or lives with someone who is.  

Now insofar as the masks, I personally will where one inside any establishment that requires one.  It is their property and they have a right to dictate what happens on their property.  I refuse to wear one outside.  I will not give into the hysteria that tries to sell the need to wear one in the open air in the heat in the sun when this is almost exclusively being transmitted inside.  

Maybe you are correct as we look back at things.  Hide sight is always 20-20.  It's the future that is unknown and with so many things unknown about the virus when the preverbal shit hit the fan they had no choices but to shut down and lock down because of the unknown.  Looking back at the Vietnam war we lost approx 60,000 american lives for that senseless pile of crap also.  See how easy it is to "look back" at things and and determine what we should have done.

The debate is ramped up about how this disease gets transmitted.  I believe it would be better to say predominately indoor settings than exclusively.  They shut down ALL activities indoor and out here in Arizona again so I'll debate the heat and sun thing all you want about it being hysteria.

[djrey]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

Rings very loud and clear today imo.

 

(btw I’m not saying don’t wear a mask. Just that there is way more to the way this disease is being fed to us than we can see.)

[El Presidente]

25 minutes ago, Capt. Corona said:

And here come the conspiracy theorists in the middle of a world pandemic.

it would be prudent to be a little bit careful here. 

Governments/Organisations have a habit of overreach. History (including recent) reveals some of that overreach can lead to horrific outcomes. 

All mass direction by government/organisations should be questioned. In a democracy, such directions need to pass not only scientific/ethical scrutiny but also the community's "pub test". 

Some communities are more pliable than others. That is not a criticism, simply an outcome of their journey to this point. 

[Ken Gargett]

6 minutes ago, djrey said:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

Rings very loud and clear today imo.

 

(btw I’m not saying don’t wear a mask. Just that there is way more to the way this disease is being fed to us than we can see.)

do you honestly believe that benjamin franklin would equate the minor inconvenience of wearing a mask to help protect your fellow citizens until the virus is defeated as giving up essential liberty? i think he'd turn in his grave at the thought. 

worth noting also that there is a school of thought that the original quote is now somewhat out of context, given that it was originally about a tax dispute. that it is "a quotation that defends the authority of a legislature to govern in the interests of collective security". and if that is true, then it means it is the exact opposite of what you intend. whether that is true or not is hardly the point. i just do not buy that someone like franklin would be out there opposing measures implemented for the safety of all citizens. 

worth having a look at https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century#:~:text=Benjamin Franklin once said%3A "Those,and concerns about government surveillance.

[rcarlson]

Some good news:  1,170,093 Americans have recovered from Covid.  

[djrey]

4 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

do you honestly believe that benjamin franklin would equate the minor inconvenience of wearing a mask to help protect your fellow citizens until the virus is defeated as giving up essential liberty? i think he'd turn in his grave at the thought. 

worth noting also that there is a school of thought that the original quote is now somewhat out of context, given that it was originally about a tax dispute. that it is "a quotation that defends the authority of a legislature to govern in the interests of collective security". and if that is true, then it means it is the exact opposite of what you intend. whether that is true or not is hardly the point. i just do not buy that someone like franklin would be out there opposing measures implemented for the safety of all citizens. 

worth having a look at https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century#:~:text=Benjamin Franklin once said%3A "Those,and concerns about government surveillance.

Again, not saying people shouldn't wear masks to keep themselves and their peers safe. That’s why I put the disclaimer there. I’m going further into the rabbit hole theorizing of what could come next and will we just say yes Mr. Scientist/doctor, you know best etc. (The Nazis has plenty of doctors and scientists).
 

As Pres mentioned govt over reach is a common theme throughout history. I tend to be very Laissez-faire in much of my politics. The govt is there to serve me not the other way around. I feel many have lost touch with that. 
 

I will read the article you posted as I’m always interested in historical reads. I still say the quote, regardless of what it originated from is relevant to many topics, this being on of them.

Anyway, I try to come here to stay away from politics so I’m going to step out and have a smoke. We’re all brothers and sisters here anyway.

[Guest Nekhyludov]

31 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

also the community's "pub test". 

The "pub test?" Rob, maybe you haven't spent much time in the United States recently, but you couldn't get two idiots in a bar to agree on the wetness of water without resorting to accusations of treason.

The African American mayor of Kansas City issued an order that face masks be worn in public and a constituent on Facebook insulted him with a racial epithet and told him he should swing from a tree. And Kansas City is a place where people are nice. 

[FOHrty9er]

15 minutes ago, rcarlson said:

Some good news:  1,170,093 Americans have recovered from Covid.  

Love this.  Thank you for the positive info!

 

I am a small business owner.  I am very fortunate and proud that we have not been affected thus far, nor do I anticipate we will be (knocking on wood as we speak) as long as we continue to work harder now than ever before.  Sadly I cannot say the same for many friends and others in our community that operate small businesses.  This second wave is closing operations left and right.

 

I honestly don't know how to feel.  2008 was a very challenging time for our business and nearly decimated my family and employees.  Now to be OK through this doesn't feel right. Very torn but extremely grateful.  At some point the onus needs to be place on individuals and allow the free market to perform.  This is my humble opinion anyway.  Businesses shuttering due to the decisions of politicians is not the path to prosperity.

 

Thanks to everyone chiming in in this subject!

[Ken Gargett]

23 minutes ago, djrey said:

Again, not saying people shouldn't wear masks to keep themselves and their peers safe. That’s why I put the disclaimer there. I’m going further into the rabbit hole theorizing of what could come next and will we just say yes Mr. Scientist/doctor, you know best etc. (The Nazis has plenty of doctors and scientists).
 

As Pres mentioned govt over reach is a common theme throughout history. I tend to be very Laissez-faire in much of my politics. The govt is there to serve me not the other way around. I feel many have lost touch with that. 
 

I will read the article you posted as I’m always interested in historical reads. I still say the quote, regardless of what it originated from is relevant to many topics, this being on of them.

Anyway, I try to come here to stay away from politics so I’m going to step out and have a smoke. We’re all brothers and sisters here anyway.

actually agree with pretty much everything you say there with one small modification.

is the govt there to serve you, or everyone? if people take it as the former, we will always have problems. of course, ten people in a room are going to have ten opinions on what the best way to serve everyone is. 

enjoy the smoke!

[teamrandr]

!

[Capt. Corona]

1 hour ago, djrey said:

(The Nazis has plenty of doctors and scientists).
 

 The govt is there to serve me not the other way around. I feel many have lost touch with that. 
 

 

You actually just sent a chill thru me with your thought in parentheses. Hope it isn't covid creeping in on my old decrypt body.

Hopefully the people do not lose touch.  But when you have an administration that has turned the W upside down in "We the people" to Me the people I often wonder who has really lost touch.

[Capt. Corona]

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

it would be prudent to be a little bit careful here. 

Governments/Organisations have a habit of overreach. History (including recent) reveals some of that overreach can lead to horrific outcomes. 

All mass direction by government/organisations should be questioned. In a democracy, such directions need to pass not only scientific/ethical scrutiny but also the community's "pub test". 

Some communities are more pliable than others. That is not a criticism, simply an outcome of their journey to this point. 

I f people in the pubs are making the rules we're all in trouble! ?