WINNER ANNOUNCED!! So, did aging stop in 2005?

[El Presidente]

"they changed the blends"

"Freezing has killed aging"

"New tobacco strains make tobacco taste better young....but they won't age"

 

Every hobby has it's doom and gloom merchants and the cigar hobby is no different.  Our puro guru/cigar whisperers back in the early 2000's called the end to the aging potential of Cuban Cigars.  The glory days were over.....they were the only ones now holding great cigars 

This is not a question of whether 80's and 90's cigars were better than 2000's. 

This is a question is your cigars since 2005 have evolved (2004/2005 being the year freezing was introduced)

Let's specifically discuss your boxes produced 2005 to 2010

How have the boxes you hold in that date range ........aged. 

Have they aged at all? Improved? peaked early? still going?

Let us live vicariously through you. Take us through some examples of your box sampling journey from 2005-2010 boxes. 

I will put a sampler together to be drawn Monday for all contributors. 

 

 

[dominattorney]

I have a limited amount of anecdotal evidence to support the belief that aging is still possible with post 2005 cigars, but I believe it to be true. I have smoked only a handful cigars from the 90s, and only own 3 pre 2005 boxes, so take this for what it is worth. The tobacco leaf is an organic piece of material and as such cannot possibly be perfectly engineered by humans to drastically change its behavior, imo.  My favorite box of cigars is a box of monte no 4s from 2008 that are smoking great right now. Compare to punch petite Corona from 03 which I believe have passed their prime. The monte 4s seem to have some legs to them still.  I would close with my belief that age comes through in a mellowing of flavors. Its perhaps possible that the new strands of tobacco just lack the roughness of flavor that existed in the past.  If there is less edge to take off aging is less important and will also occur in less time. For me 5 years is where the magic starts to happen on most boxes.  I will never be able to confirm or deny this but perhaps others with longer time down in the hobby can speak to it. 

[Fugu]

Check out my box(es) of 2008 Party898, 2008 MdO2, or 2009 RyJ Cazzies and you got your answer....

Holds as well for milder blends (e.g. check out @JohnS latest rev of '09 LGC Tainos), and could likewise be said about a range of "meaner" cigars.

[IanMcLean68]

It is probably still too early to tell. Whenever I hear about pre-2000 blends, it is more to do with long term aging protential.
Anything else right now seems very subjective to me. For post 2005, its impossible to talk in terms of more than 15 years aging without looking into a crystal ball.

In terms of a limited 15 year maximum aging at this point in time, I have some experiences, but that amounts to no more than anecdotal evidence. My personal opinion is that CCs still age excellently.

The most amazing transformation for me has been in HU Mag 46. They started out muddled and strong. I'm not that fond of them young. In examples from both 08 and 13, it took around 6 years for them to turn the corner. Now they are outstanding. The earliest I have of these goes back to 08, and they are showing the same results as those from 13. They are now starting out with the most gorgeous combination of nuts and vanilla. Still strong, but balanced and smooth. I still think they have legs for another number of years. It has given me an example of Cuban tobacco post 2005 that still has excellent aging potential. Seen similar results in cabs of Siglo VI, 898 and Lusitanias from 06 and 08. I have one of those Lusis left, now at about 12 years. The last one I smoked at 10 years was one of the best smokes I have ever had, as were Siglo VI from the same years.
 

[SCgarman]

19 minutes ago, FatherOfPugs said:

My Monte 1s from 06 are fantastic last time I lit one up, a few months ago. My Party Coronas Seniors from 08 are still smoking wonderfully. Box of Mag 50s from 08 and 10 that are glorious. Trinidad Coloniales from 09 are spectacular. My handful of Siglo IIIs and VIs from 08/09, glorious. Anyone from the Newbie/Vet box pass that grabbed the aged stuff I put in could chime in.

All my aged stuff I still have on hand from 05-10 has aged beautifully. The TEB box codes from 08 have been mind blowing! 

I came into CC's from NC's with the TEB08 BRC's and RASS and have to agree those cigars were/are fantastic. Still have a partial box of TEB08 Royal Coronas. 

[Chucko8]

My box of Mag 46 from 05 are incredible and in comparison to a more recent Mag 46 the difference is chalk and cheese. So if these from 2005 haven't aged, then the more recent blend must have changed!

[lovethehaze]

Such limited experience mostly monti 1’s sancho Belicoso, ryj Belicoso’s, monti 2’s, Trinidad coloniales, and cohiba Siglo III’s. All gifted, traded or bought in Canada as singles some time ago.  No complete boxes from this time in my humi but the ones I have smoked have been great. Full of life and pleasant .. honestly imho if they get too old there isn’t enough pop but the oldest I have smoked was 99 so as I said I have limited experience and only a few of this age. 
compared to newer ones they are much better as a general rule. I would def say they have aged appropriately to my mind set. 

[Lant63]

I think to set a baseline, a well rolled cigar from the past 5 years would outshine a poorly rolled cigar from the time period in question.  Most of my boxes from this time period (2005-2010) have no construction issues.  Cohiba Lancero 2006 (probably my favorite box of cigars I own) are 97+ everytime I smoke one.  Same goes for PL robusto, RACF, Lusi, Bolivar Inmensas and CE and Punch Super Robusto. I began smoking most of these boxes 3-5 years ago and they have improved over time.  RACF specifically still have plenty of legs. I also hold cigars from 1998-2001 (punch ssn1, ssn2, bolivar coronas gigantes) these cigars are aging well too.  I would say that the 2005-2010 are aging at a similar rate/quality to their slightly older counterparts 

[MrGlass]

The box that made me realise the impact of ageing was a 10 count box of Partagas 898 from around 2009.  From memory, they weren't the prettiest looking sticks, but I was still excited to try them given how much everybody raved about them.  And I hated them.  They smoked well, but the flavour profile did absolutely nothing for me.  I would try one every year for the next five years, and every year they would disappoint.  But after about five years, something magical happened to them, and in the space of a year they went from terrible to awesome, and I smoked what was left over the next 12 months and absolutely loved every one of them.  So in that last year, either the cigars changed, or I did (probably a combination of both).  I think like others have already said, those extra years allowed the cigar to mellow, and let some of the more subtle flavours shine through that were originally being completely overpowered.

[Baccy]

I just want know why boxes from around 04-06 are so rare? Or is it just me? Seems like it's hard to find boxes from 03,04,05,06... While I always run across aged boxes from 99-02, and then also boxes from around 07-present seem plentiful, weird...

[earthson]

This is a BLP JUN 08 box of Choix Supreme.  They are already worlds better than any ERDM I have had and they also happen to be the oldest ERDM I have had.  I've had 4 from the box so far and the depth and evolution of flavors in dizzying.

So I would say, yes, cigars from this period age well.

I have also had some late 90s Sancho Panzas that were fantastic and obviously better because of the age, but still tasted much like current vintages I have bought.  What this suggests to me is that while the tobacco strains have changed, they are still producing flavors and aromas akin to what was being grown and rolled in the 90s.

My question is whether or not the processing of the tobacco now includes some sort of "cooking" method to accelerate the curing of the leaf, evidenced by certain cigars that used to need age, but no longer do.  My examples for these cigars are LGC MdO4 and the mighty Fundadores.

[SenorPerfecto]

I am fairly certain that Charlize Theron's aging did stop in 2005.

[treberty]

I have partial boxes ne HU Connue 1 from 03, 06, 08, 11, 13, 15, 17 & 18... my 03s are still a treat - and still have some legs - and I can say that the ones from the other vintages still evolve from year to year.

The flavour profile is similar, but the strength varies.

I believe that there was a bigger difference between president 1998-2000 and post 2000 Cubans, from my experience.

For instance, I remember vividly a 10yo Cazzie that I smoked in 2001 that was just sublime... and 2004 Cazzies that I smoked between 2010-14 that were really good, but not nearly as memorable as the circa 1990 one.

Same applies to old Monte 4s vs late 2000.

That said, I think that my palate has also "adapted" to the newer blends and the fact that CCs are not as packed as they used to (some say cigars are not plugged because of improved QC, I say it's due to cost cutting :-))

This is based on my personal experience and observations so obviously nothing scientific here.

So in short I do think it is different, but similar. Which means that CCs can still age well...

[Cayman17]

1 hour ago, Chucko8 said:

My box of Mag 46 from 05 are incredible and in comparison to a more recent Mag 46 the difference is chalk and cheese. So if these from 2005 haven't aged, then the more recent blend must have changed!

So you are saying the recent blend is more bland than 2005?  Just trying to clarify your meaning. I had an 05 mag 45 several years ago that blew me away.  The entire cigar was incredible.  By contrast, the last recent production mag 46 I sampled (a tubo from a 3-count box that could not have been older than 2017)  was extremely bland and one dimensional.  

[joey rockets]

When it comes to CCs, I'll be the first to admit being green around the gills but it seems like many marcas with box dates of 2017-2019 are now more of a burnt orange in color than brown?  Does this signify different blends, differing growing seasons or both?  Or perhaps I imagine the difference as I have only a few earlier dates of the same marca to compare. I'll also admit to unfamiliarity with photography which is tricky.  I travel little internationally these days and when I did wander through European retailers, I was clueless except for the NCs.

[Chucko8]

8 minutes ago, Cayman17 said:

So you are saying the recent blend is more bland than 2005?  Just trying to clarify your meaning. I had an 05 mag 45 several years ago that blew me away.  The entire cigar was incredible.  By contrast, the last recent production mag 46 I sampled (a tubo from a 3-count box that could not have been older than 2017)  was extremely bland and one dimensional.  

Yes I was eluding to the same that which you have experienced. The more recent production was bland in comparison to the 05.

[Notsocleaver]

I had Mag 46s from 05, 08, 11, and 13. I think my 08s where probably the best, followed by the 13s. The 05s and 11s felt like they aged out faster, but I wouldn't call them bad. I think for me at least aging potential has more to do with the specific box than anything else. My 05 Hdm Epicure #1s are almost as good as my 03 des deux, despite not having nearly the reputation for aging potential. My 05 RG lonsdales feel aged out but my 05 Edmundos, while quite mild, still have the same life they always did.

[anjimj]

My box of 2005 Magnum 46 are absolutely great! I smoke one a year on my sons birthday and they seem to get smoother every year. 

[Wookie]

James Suckling's take:

I believe that one can buy Cuban cigars according to the box date. So here is my cigar vintage chart in order of preference:

 

1) 2014
2) 2015
3) 2013
4) 2012
5) 2011
6) 2010
7) 2003
? 2009
9) 2008
10) 2007
11) 2004
12) 2005
13) 2006
14) 2002

A word of caution. Don’t touch any cigars from the end of 1998 to 2001. Many of these cigars had construction problems as well as bad tobacco blending. A new generation of factory workers came on board at that time, and many didn’t know how to make cigars. Moreover, policies were initiated to make large quantities of cigars and the blends were not correct.

Luckily, the above is all in the past. I think that the current years of cigars are some of the best ever. Plantations are growing better tobacco. Factory workers have more experience, and quality control in general is much better.

– James Suckling, Publisher and Editor of HavanaInsider.com 

 

[Guest Nekhyludov]

Count me among those who think that the current strains of tobacco won't age as well. I periodically get so smoke a variety of Habanos from the late-'90s, and they are - as a rule - still vibrant and full of distinct flavors. In some cases still a bit strong and maybe in need of some more time down, as strange as that sounds. Cigars from '07 and '08, however, all seem to converge on a common profile regardless of marca. They're enjoyable, but no longer distinct from one another in any way. I don't have high hopes for how those will hold up beyond 10 years. At best, they'll be generically pleasant; at worst, they'll turn to cardboard. I used to agree that 5 - 8 years was the peak for recent production, and most of my current smoking stock is 2014. But lately I think that window has shifted to 3 - 5 years. My 2016s are as good as they're likely ever to get I think. I bought a box of PSE2 when my daughter was born, with the silly notion of smoking one per year on her birthday. But now I suspect they'll be past their prime before she reaches elementary school. 

[Sir Diggamus]

I totally disagree with any idea that after 2005 aging stopped being relevant. During that time I got a few boxes that were stellar after three or four years of age. Standouts for me from memory are

• El Rey del Mundo Petit Coronas '08- The last couple I smoked in '16-'17 were full of baking spices and cream 
• Partagas Serie du Connaissuer no1 '08- earthy with hints of espresso, sea salt and that "Partagas spice". Beautiful...
• Cohiba Siglo IV '06- By 2010 these were some of the best cigars I have enjoyed PERIOD. Fresh ground coffee, honey, vanilla. Oh yeah. These were IT. 
• Bolivar Gold Medal '08- By about '12 or '13 these were AMAZING. The puchiness faded though still had a strong earthiness, fruity notes, and dark cocoa. 

A few others I had that were really good without specific notes are Rafael Gonzales Corona Extra from '06, Diplomatico #5 '05 or '06, ERDM Grades de Espana '07 and ERDM Lunch Club '06. What sucks is that so many of these stellar smokes got axed by 2010. But all mentioned above were definitely different experiences when smoked years after and there was a definite progression in them.

[earthson]

48 minutes ago, Nekhyludov said:

Count me among those who think that the current strains of tobacco won't age as well. I periodically get so smoke a variety of Habanos from the late-'90s, and they are - as a rule - still vibrant and full of distinct flavors. In some cases still a bit strong and maybe in need of some more time down, as strange as that sounds. Cigars from '07 and '08, however, all seem to converge on a common profile regardless of marca. They're enjoyable, but no longer distinct from one another in any way. I don't have high hopes for how those will hold up beyond 10 years. At best, they'll be generically pleasant; at worst, they'll turn to cardboard. I used to agree that 5 - 8 years was the peak for recent production, and most of my current smoking stock is 2014. But lately I think that window has shifted to 3 - 5 years. My 2016s are as good as they're likely ever to get I think. I bought a box of PSE2 when my daughter was born, with the silly notion of smoking one per year on her birthday. But now I suspect they'll be past their prime before she reaches elementary school. 

I have been burning through a five pack of 2016 PSE2 and they still appear to need age (I'm down to one!)

I would disagree with 07/08 aging to all taste the same, though I am basing that largely on recent experience with only a few sticks (PLPC, ERDMCS & Fon no 1).

[Wailbait]

47 minutes ago, Nekhyludov said:

Count me among those who think that the current strains of tobacco won't age as well. I periodically get so smoke a variety of Habanos from the late-'90s, and they are - as a rule - still vibrant and full of distinct flavors. In some cases still a bit strong and maybe in need of some more time down, as strange as that sounds. Cigars from '07 and '08, however, all seem to converge on a common profile regardless of marca. They're enjoyable, but no longer distinct from one another in any way. I don't have high hopes for how those will hold up beyond 10 years. At best, they'll be generically pleasant; at worst, they'll turn to cardboard. I used to agree that 5 - 8 years was the peak for recent production, and most of my current smoking stock is 2014. But lately I think that window has shifted to 3 - 5 years. My 2016s are as good as they're likely ever to get I think. I bought a box of PSE2 when my daughter was born, with the silly notion of smoking one per year on her birthday. But now I suspect they'll be past their prime before she reaches elementary school. 

I agree with this statement in many many ways.  I don’t have that many boxes left from 05-10 but have savored my 08s.  I have had good luck with those and kept them.  My only box of 10’s are Encantos and I still believe they have legs.  

That said, two of my favorite recent production sticks, 898 and e2 have interesting things.  My 898 from 09 are still strong and robust.  They can go another 10 years.  My 6/17 898s were GREAT when new and I am unsure how they will age.  I have Laguito E2 from 15,16 and 17.  Tried a 15 last week - thought it was FABULOUS - but fabulous right now.  I don’t know the legs on them.  

 

 

[nKostyan]

I smoke cigars only three years, so me available only try cigars before and after 2006, not knowing what they were in early life. They're mostly singles. Mostly cigars to 2006 are admirable, but there were also disappointments, is a clean woody taste and a weak background. I suspect that some cigars had improper storage and I agree with the assumption regarding the benefits of packaging "Cabinet" for aging.
The only cigars before 2006 that I would leave to age are Vegueros Especiales no.1&2. They still have a full strength and a rich multi-faceted taste with many nuances.
Also, I did not feel the difference of the blend of these cigars before and after 2006. My research of the 2013 Vegueros lineup leads to the suspicion that the blend is still old, just changed format.
So far, it's the only brand yet I'm going to be deep-aging to remove the excess nicotine.
So my personal conclusions about Vegueros - are the 5 cents I can contribute to this topic.

[MPS]

I don’t see any difference in the aging potential for cigars pre and post 2005 except for maybe the loss of some strong flavored cigars that have been discontinued over the years either through deletion or watering down of the marca. 2005 was not a very good overall vintage to my tastes but there were some incredible exceptions. My La Fuerzas right now are incredible and the D4’s, BRC and ERDMCS are now all gone. 2006 was an excellent vintage year all around to my tastes. 2007 Ramon Allones Specially Selected are smoking so incredible it’s mind boggling. 2008 Bolivar Royal Coronas are fantastic with legs for days. I have boxes of Ramon Allones Gigantes from many of these years (08-11) and they are awesome getting better each year. Are they as good as the 2003’s from GKI no but maybe they will be. The potential is there. Juan Lopez that I have from 2010-2013 are incredible. As good as my 01’s and 04’s no but again they could be down the road. 2008 Punch Super Selection No. 1 my favorite cigars are some of the best cigars I’ve ever smoked. Same with Royal Selection from 2009. 2009 overall to me was a banner year especially from Partagas. We’re there duds along the way? Sure. But same can be said with cigars pre 2005. I remember lots of talk back in 08 around here and other forums that there was no need to age cigars any longer and that they would all be flavorless after 10 years of aging. Lol I’ve found it to be the exact opposite and my aging has reaped enormous rewards. Some of the greatest cigars I’ve ever smoked are regular production from this time period: 2009 LGC Taínos, 2013 LGC MdO No. 2, 2009 Partagas Serie D No. 4, 2008 Punch SS No. 1, 2007 Ramon Allones Specially Selected, 2009 Monte Especial, 2011 Partagas Serie E No. 2, 2013 Partagas Serie D No. 5, 2007 Cohiba Siglo VI, 2010 Cohiba Espléndido, 2012 Cohiba Lancero, 2013 Cohiba Espléndido and Siglo VI etc and I’ve smoked plenty of incredible 80’s and 90’s cigars. I actually prefer cigars from 02-13.