the left field.

[El Presidente]

I was in discussion with a new client of mine who is doing something with his cigars that i haven't heard of before. 

He freezes all his cigars, stabilizes them and then puts them in his home walk in which is set at  83 F (28 C) and 68 RH. 

I asked him how on earth did he come up with that and why?

The why is that he believes a 2 year old box of D4's tastes like his 8-10 year aged boxes. 

The how is by complete accident. He was posted overseas from his home in South East Asia. He was away 2 years.  His humidor aircon broke down the month he left but the active humidification system (including a dehumidifier) remained on. It read 68 RH and 28C upon his return. He has maintained it the same ever since as everything to him tasted sublime.

 

Can our FOH armchair scientists offer any explanation how this could possibly work 

 

 

[luckme10]

Different Strokes for Different Folks?

[earthson]

Irrespective of beetles hatching, mold getting carried away and other maladies that come with higher temps, the higher temperature is possibly increasing the rate of the chemical reaction(s) that drives cigar aging.

Whoop! Pulled that out of my kiester, but, as the millenials say, "Change my mind!"

[Derboesekoenig]

3 minutes ago, earthson said:

Irrespective of beetles hatching, mold getting carried away and other maladies that come with higher temps, the higher temperature is possibly increasing the rate of the chemical reaction(s) that drives cigar aging.

Whoop! Pulled that out of my kiester, but, as the millenials say, "Change my mind!"

Can't argue with this. I feel like the only reason most of us keep ours under 75 or even 70 degrees Fahrenheit is because of the aforementioned beetles. Better safer than sorry, right? Makes complete sense storing them at such a high temperature would speed up the aging process. Thankfully no mold developed. 

I would like to try an experiment like that. Maybe have 5 of the same box, code, date, etc. and have them each stored in different conditions. Smoke 2 cigars per box each year (ideally sample all 5 boxes within a week to 10 days) until the stock is depleted, all while annotating the results

[JohnS]

[Derboesekoenig]

1 minute ago, JohnS said:

I feel like you have this on standby lol

[El Presidente]

11 minutes ago, earthson said:

Irrespective of beetles hatching, mold getting carried away and other maladies that come with higher temps, the higher temperature is possibly increasing the rate of the chemical reaction(s) that drives cigar aging.

Whoop! Pulled that out of my kiester, but, as the millenials say, "Change my mind!"

You could solve the mold threat (I would think) by reducing the humidity 

[LordAnubis]

Isn’t Cuba year round 28 degrees anyway? I doubt it’d be 20c year round. Yet we seem to store them at that as common practise.


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[BellevilleMXZ]

37 minutes ago, earthson said:

Irrespective of beetles hatching, mold getting carried away and other maladies that come with higher temps, the higher temperature is possibly increasing the rate of the chemical reaction(s) that drives cigar aging.

Whoop! Pulled that out of my kiester, but, as the millenials say, "Change my mind!"

Yep bet thats what it is....might be risky though......

[HDGSN]

My Aristocrat non-temp controlled end table humidor is almost always at 75-78F, 60-64RH during the summer and fall as we keep the house at 74F then, and the humidor is on an exterior wall so it can pick up a few degrees.  I have had a few sticks show signs of mold over the years, but not really the Cubans.  Also, I do not taste any rapid aging at those temps.

[ponfed]

Does he freeze them for a longer time than is usual to kill off beetles.

Cause I don't know, maybe ice crystals are bursting cells in the tobacco and that accelerates the evaporation and oxidation of whatever secret sauce is in that tobacco oil.

(Like phenols and butyric acid and other chemicals that I don't quite know what they are)

 

[Booyaa]

He didn't smoke for two years so no matter what he smoked it was going to taste amazing?

[Baccy]

I always get mold in those conditions, except of course my temps at their worst have never gotten that high! Maybe the deep freezing helps?

[Colt45]

My only real concern would be draw. I'm no scientist, but I imagine that that temp would help allow for a somewhat higher humidity.

[Baccy]

10 minutes ago, Colt45 said:

My only real concern would be draw. I'm no scientist, but I imagine that that temp would help allow for a somewhat higher humidity.

right but I've always heard that lower temps allowed for higher rh, because when the ambient temps rise the saturation vapor density rises... I'm no scientist either but that's what I've heard. lol

[Colt45]

23 minutes ago, Baccy said:

right but I've always heard that lower temps allowed for higher rh, because when the ambient temps rise the saturation vapor density rises... I'm no scientist either but that's what I've heard. lol

Yes. My thought is that the higher temp would allow one to store at a somewhat higher humidity without the cigars becoming too damp.

[shlomo]

Not understanding what a higher temp has to do with mold. Someone care to explain it to me pls?

[Philc2001]

right but I've always heard that lower temps allowed for higher rh, because when the ambient temps rise the saturation vapor density rises... I'm no scientist either but that's what I've heard. lol

Doesn’t the “relative” in RH correspond to the saturation point being higher/lower relative to the temperature?

I tend to believe temperature affects the aging of cigars. Organic materials such as tobacco tend to oxidize and decompose over time. Lower temps slow the aging process, and higher temps accelerate it. Hence refrigeration was invented to slow the decomposition and spoilage of organic materials.

But is faster aging what we want, or do we want cigars to stay fresh and retain as much of their flavor for as long as possible?



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[BG1165]

Interesting. A couple of months ago I recieved an order from a new customer well outside our trucks delivery zone. Contracted freight quotes were outrageous and I decided to make the 3 days round trip myself. 

I had boxed 6 sticks with a 62 boveda in the herfador to take along and then somehow left them in my car. Temps in that car had to have reached well into the 100F’s while I was gone. I doubt it ever saw enough nighttime cooling to reach any lower than 80 either. When I got back to the plant after that days long drive I wanted a cigar and grabbed a siglo IV from the case. It was warm but the boveda was still nice and spongy and all the cigars looked fine. That Siglo was better than any of the others that had come from a box of April ‘17 sticks that have been holding 65/65 at home. The one I pulled a week ago didn’t compare either. Maybe it wasn’t just the coincidence I thought it was?

[Ritch]

So clearly we should all put our sticks in the oven on a low heat for a while prior to smoking!

[Wilzc]

I’m in SE Asia where the ambient room temperature is always between 27-30 deg Celsius.

28C 68RH won’t get us mold. I store mine at 28C 69-70 RH and have been doing so for years.

What I have notice is that the cigars tend to get a little bit dry at 28C 70RH. The wrappers tend to get slightly stiff but the flavours are still pretty much alright.

Remember it’s not about RH. It’s about moisture in your leaf. 28C Doesn’t allow for much moisture to be retained.

What is detrimental about such temperatures is that I find the cigars are more often than not abit tighter and more plug-proned. The high heat expands the leaf slightly make for a stiff and slightly plugged smoke.


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[RDB]

Rule of thumb around ambient temperatures is that chemical reactions double in rate for every 10C rise in temp. So 28C would double the rate relative to 18C (which is about 65F). No one does this for wine, because storage at that higher temp would kill it. But maybe it doesn’t harm cigars?

[earthson]

13 hours ago, El Presidente said:

You could solve the mold threat (I would think) by reducing the humidity 

And yet high temps and low humidity would probably "cook off" the oils.  You know, we talk about "oils" in cigars, but what are they?  Are they hydrophilic or hydrophobic?  I would think hydrophilic since they seem to evaporate in conditions that are too dry.

[zeedubbya]

According to the chart @PigFish has posted a few times (which he always says to remember—is for Burley cigarette tobacco) 83 dF and 68 rH would equal about the same PMC (percentage moisture content) as 65/65.  Keep in mind the @PigFish mantra—what makes you happy with your cigars is what works.  If he likes the way his cigars smoke at 83/68 that’s just great; I would say your friends cigars are smoking great because his PMC is similar to what everyone else is doing.  Hope I’ve learned something Ray (also hope I didn’t plagiarize anything!)  

 

[BrightonCorgi]

Fermentation could be sooner or with more intensity as the temp rises.  I would be worried on beetles hatching.