Hypothetical: Correct Call?

[El Presidente]

Hypothetical. 

 

" Eldest son comes into a collection of 22 rare aged boxes of Cuban cigars from his father. His father who has now passed away,  was an enthusiast of cigars and collected examples from international stores and travelling friends. 

The son is not a cigar smoker and is seeking to sell the boxes most of which are complete and in good condition. He has approached a major trading house who upon assessment advises that  initial viewing shows 8 of the 22 boxes are fake. The son does not argue the fact but wishes the trading house to sell the remaining 14 boxes. The trading house declines. The son appeals. The trading house holds its line on the basis that it has a duty of care to members who would not be aware of the backstory when bidding."

Given the above scenario, have a crack at the poll. I have a hunch what the result will be.....but at the same time am intrigued 

 

[Nevrknow]

Are the remaining boxes confirmed as legit?

[El Presidente]

13 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

initial viewing shows 8 of the 22 boxes are fake.

3 minutes ago, Nevrknow said:

Are the remaining boxes confirmed as legit?

 

Assume so to the best that can be determined. 

[Puros Y Vino]

I think every collection has its' black sheep in it.  It just depends on how much of it is fake vs real.  A lot of travelers to Cuba, etc get sucked in, albeit innocently, into buying something that is not legit. A similar situation arose up here in Canada.  Large, handed down collection with some great boxes popped up.  I'd say a quarter were fake, but the rest were legit.  The real caveat though is that this entire collection did not sit in a humidor for upwards of 7+ years..😬

[Chibearsv]

It doesn't really matter to me if some of the seller's collection is known to be fake.  As long as the remaining boxes were determined to be real by a third party, I'd be open to buying them.  I'd need to see some condition photos for myself and price would be a factor since I'd be taking some risk that they aren't the real deal.  But that's the way I'd treat buying any aged cigars.  

[Rhinoww]

I am not smarter than the experts, and they can be fooled. 
like when I was in the DR and I pressed if the cigars were real Cubans. Guy on the beach says they were real cigars. They were real fakes. 
just sayin. 
At the time I didn’t know better. Do I now?  I hope so but… the intoxication or a rare cigar can be intense. I’m stickin to known sources with legit boxes. 

[benfica_77]

Along the lines of what Frank said....my concern is multi-fold....if there's fakes in the collection I also challenge the collectors ability to properly store and also do they like "plume" etc. etc. If you have compromised on one factor like fakes you have a higher propensity for other issues. 

As a trading/auction house you need to assess risk/reward or in this case revenue. If the legit boxes are Sublimes or some crazy boxes maybe but I wouldn't risk it. 

This is why source of boxes is such a huge deal to me. I have to truly trust the source to buy that's why my locations to buy are so few. I stay away from FB groups and marketplace etc. 

[Chas.Alpha]

Here’s my 2 cents. Nope, I wouldn’t be interested. Let’s face it, if we’re talking well aged espys or HUSW, they are going to command premium prices in today’s 2ndary market. I for one go right back to the “know (and trust) your vendor.” If I don’t know where they came from, it’s unlikely I would be paying out the big dollars for boxes that were from potentially dubious sources.

[ElJavi76]

Cigars are cigars. I bet the savviest of smokers here have smoked a fake. Eff this holier than thou stuff, respectfully. 😂 

If well conditioned and kept properly… and I could afford the asking price. Yes! I’m in. I’m a smoker. Some of the best cigars I’ve enjoyed have come via a well connected source. I don’t ask too many questions. Just Zelle, Venmo, or PayPal? Somebody is gonna smoke them. Why not me? 

[01Vert]

A retailer / distributor I can see refusing the whole lot.  If one box shows up as fake afterward and the provenance that multiple boxes were fake wasn’t known to the subsequent buyers then they are on the hook.  If they buy from a decently compromised collection then they assume all the risks and I can see thinking “why would they buy from a collection of known fakes“.   It just seems like poor decision making

 

As a person I would not be interested.  Too many fakes.  A collection has a single box of fakes, I get it but when that many are fakes then I wouldn’t feel good about buying from the guy unless I knew him personally.   

[MrBirdman]

Totally get an auction house refusing the lot, but I would probably still buy a box through a private sale if authenticated through a trustworthy source. But the added risk would need to be reflected in the price. And I’m talking one or maybe two boxes, not the whole lot. If that’s the deal then no thank you. 

[BrightonCorgi]

I don't put common sense over glandular urge when it comes to cigars. 

[alephilmac]

1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said:

I don't put common sense over glandular urge when it comes to cigars. 

Haha. This is the way.

[Cigar Surgeon]

The expression is: a rotten apple spoils the whole barrel.

[Vetteman]

14 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

Totally get an auction house refusing the lot, but I would probably still buy a box through a private sale if authenticated through a trustworthy source. But the added risk would need to be reflected in the price. And I’m talking one or maybe two boxes, not the whole lot. If that’s the deal then no thank you. 

I agree. A trading house couldn’t take the risk, but a private buyer certainly could

[BrightonCorgi]

Who is to say another auction house/reseller may find all the boxes legitimate or were they obvious fakes?

[El Presidente]

4 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Who is to say another auction house/reseller may find all the boxes legitimate or were they obvious fakes?

.....oh they are were obvious fakes 

[BrightonCorgi]

1 hour ago, El Presidente said:

.....oh they are were obvious fakes 

The decision is easy then.  The seller could pull the fake boxes and ask another auction or store if they're interested.

[El Presidente]

2 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

The decision is easy then.  The seller could pull the fake boxes and ask another auction or store if they're interested.

No doubt. There are plenty of means of disposing them be it other trading houses, FB, forums etc. 

[LordAnubis]

I mean plenty of auction houses have sold fakes before. Plenty of well known reliable stores have sold fakes. You’d have a pretty minutely small vendor list if you stick to no fakes. The proof is in the pudding of how it’s handled. 

I’d buy the genuine stuff if it was regular stuff I was going to smoke. Would not buy premiums or high value stuff I had even a 10% chance of on selling in the future. 

[NSXCIGAR]

If a third of the collection is fake on "initial viewing" I can understand why a broker wouldn't want to bother. 

I would probably do the same thing if I I was the auction house in this case unless there were some absolute holy grails that were worth my time to authenticate. Although I suppose you could just have the owner pay upfront for an authentication/appraisal. 

[canadianbeaver]

Plenty of cigars from trusted friends or forums available. Trade or auction selling and currently the price of cigars is crazy.we do not have to resort to risky lots like this.

However, did just acquire a lot of vintage Padron cigars as described in opening post. Son on forum sold his late father’s collection.

But each box was described in detailed list and the source was a forum leader. His son was a member with feedback too.

CB