Where did it all go wrong for Trinidad?

[El Presidente]

Where did it all go wrong for Trinidad? 

This was a topic of recent discussion among friends. 

Let's get the positives out of the way. 

It's a great tasting line of cigars. Trinidad "blend" DNA is widely enjoyed among Habanos enthusiasts.  The Fundadores has been the flagship Trinidad for a long time but the Coloniales for me is the cigar that I smoke most of. Love the size and the flavour intensity/complexity. 

This is a Marque that has spawned some other brilliant lines in the Robusto T and the Robusto Extra. Stunning cigars.  Stunning cigars that were discontinued only to make way for a skew of new cigars (very good ones) that crowded out the segment #MetooTrinidad

This is a Marque whose brand positioning has had more changes than my mate Hutley's  relationships. It is hard to keep up. 

Now it is a designated "Mega Super Premium" going nowhere fast. 

When the new "Habanos grand pricing scheme" was launched, I posted that I thought Cohiba would be fine but Trinidad was in serious trouble. 

What in hell were they thinking?  How can you read the market so wrong.... or  "what are we missing?". 

 

 

[Nevrknow]

Cohiba will be fine you are correct although my opinion those prices will slide down. Maybe? 🤷

I agree on Trini also. In my small circle of smokers, most had never heard of them until I brought them around. I don't think they'll last at these prices. IMHO. They may wind up as an "also ran".

I do love my Reyes and colonials tho.

[SCgarman]

All I know is the new Reyes pricing is a bust. Seen them discounted already on a Swiss grey market vendor site. Robusto T was a good Robusto, obviously priced too high and couldn't compete with Cohiba Robusto. The marca has been in constant turmoil with new cigars not lasting (robustoT, robusto extra) and all these new vitolas that have recently sprung up past few years. Personally, I can't get past the 24 count boxes, why they simply can't offer a 25 bundle is beyond me. Obviously HSA is trying to label Cohiba as Rolex and Trinidad as Patek or AP. Will it work? Those with "baller" money will likely always choose Cohiba. 

[Corylax18]

I love the Coloniales and Fundadores. I think they're two cigars that really show the pinnacle of what the Cuban tobacco industry can do. I never felt the same love for the Reyes, but they obviously had their place.  

I've been rallying against the watering down of EVERY "brand" with 5, very slightly, different Robusto's for years now. Its an easy way to water down a blend, maximize revenues and suck in inexperienced smokers. 

For me, things started to go sideways in 2012 when they discontinued the Robusto Extra. I like the size and it was a wonderful cigar. It was still recoverable at that point, but "replacing" it with the Vigia was another big step backwards. The La Trova could have been a great release, but was overpriced and difficult to get a hold of for years. So more of a lateral move in the end. 

The last 3 or 4 years have seen it homologized with the entire portfolio's path. Shorter, Fatter and more expensive. An increasingly inferior product ant increasingly higher costs is just not something that interests me. It didn't happen over night, but I went from buying 6-10 boxes of Trinidad a year, to Zero and I don't see that number going back up again. 

[liquid360]

I’ll continue to buy the La Trova, on same days my favorite cigar of them all.


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[NSXCIGAR]

I think it first went wrong in 2004 when they took a brand with one cigar full of mystique and made it ordinary. The second mistake was the model missteps in 2004-2012. The third and probably fatal mistake is the price and positioning changes in June. 

[Chas.Alpha]

The Fundadores is a $25 skinny. $70? Nope. Esmeralda is very nice, $20-$23. Reyes??? Not even. Ever. Of course, temper my judgments by my perceived value, not anyone else's.

[DaBoot]

I think the recent price increase.

 Esmeralda and media Luna are great hits, even at old cohiba prices were quick sellouts since being released. 
  Reyes is my favorite cigar. Definitely not paying that much for a 30 min smoke  

[CampDelta369]

I will savor the last box of Fundadores in the cabinet. It was the surrogate Lancero for the CoLa unicorn. I really enjoyed the Reyes and have some La Trova buried in the big humidor as well. They will be special occasion cigars now. Bring on the N1 Nudies good sir...

[winelover]

I've had a handful of Fundies over the years and have never been blown away.

I have really enjoyed the Coloniales and the one I have smoked most of is the Vigia - completely satisfying 40 min smoke.

The Reyes have always been good but have a little mongrel in them at least for my palate. 

[Cigar-Therapy]

I am new to the Cuban game. I’ve only ever had the Reyes - which is my favorite in that vitola. 
 

I really wanted to try some of the other vitolas, but for less than a box of 24 Reyes, one can get cigars that offer so much more at a lesser price. Like the Connie 2 or Wide Churchill and so much more!

[Islandboy]

I haven’t been in the game long enough to have experienced the first signs of trouble (Robusto Extra demise, etc). And honestly, the last 6 or so years have been a boom time for Trinidad in my humidor - first with the introduction of La Trova, followed by Esmeralda, 2 of my favorite cigars. Aaaaaannnd then the axe fell hard with the pricing insanity. That’s where it all went terribly wrong in my experience. I will cherish the La Trovas and Esmeraldas that I do have, and I’m thankful I took several opportunities to stock up when I did.

[chris12381]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I think it first went wrong in 2004 when they took a brand with one cigar full of mystique and made it ordinary. The second mistake was the model missteps in 2004-2012. The third and probably fatal mistake is the price and positioning changes in June. 

I agree.  I'm looking at my 2004 Excel spreadsheet for the cigar prices in Cuba.  Trinidad Fundadores were $14.24 or $341.65 a box.  They were only $0.03 less than a Cohiba Lancero.  I remember the quality to be very very good, even for boxes rolled in 1998, 1999 and the later difficult years.  They had the mystique and caché of being one of the only cigars given as diplomatic gifts.  Launched it as a single vitola line in 1998 and then decided to turn it into a "niche brand".   

 

[Rhinoww]

Like @Islandboy I have not been in this game for years and years. Been in long enough to appreciate the variety that Trin offered. Nice sticks. I enjoyed the Coloniales the most. I stocked up when prices were in the regular range. A nice stick for the rotation - but is it a special occasion cigar - no.  The new prices are just not worth it for me for anything in the Trin line. Where did they go wrong - pricing the regular consumers out of the market. 
Did I mention that they killed the brand w pricing. 😂

HSA decided these were exceptional sticks by Royal Fiat. I’m just not buying that. Perhaps future consumers will buy that is a really long game to play. Either prices will come down or Vitolas will be discontinued is my bet. 

[Greenhorn2]

I've got boxes of everything Trinidad except the robusto extra and robusto t. Habanos can go right on ahead and shoot themselves right in the foot. 

[Bill Hayes]

Loved the Reyes when they first came out. Was my go-to cigar when you could smoke in bars and beer gardens. Seemed to go off the boil a bit and smoking habits changed to longer balcony smoking at home. I think they are trying to make Cohiba into Bordeaux and Trinidad into Burgundy. Question is, will it lower manufacture or create an initial stockpiling that might provide some great aged boxes at very high prices. Might work but I would leave Partagas, Bolivar, Monte, RYJ and Upmann as reasonably priced to keep the market interested. Could be an idea to keep the Siglo 1 and Reyes reasonably priced as an introduction to the blends, like a cheaper 4 cylinder BMW. 

[Nocoins]

Similar to above, I would have preferred more coronas, panatelas, and lonsdales to more variations on the robusto. If Trinidad had filled the void of what was being discontinued between 2003-2009, it could have been great. Too bad. 

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, DaBoot said:

Esmeralda and media Luna are great hits

I think the release of the latest three models was a step in the right direction for what the brand had become. I thought the world prices were a bit high for them however and actually too low in Cuba (Esmeralda and Topes were ~$13 in Cuba and ~$24 duty free).

I don't think Vigia ever moved the needle for the brand. They started out reasonably priced at about $10 but got up to $15 after only a couple years. The vitola wasn't really popular and the Vigia has always had some consistency issues. 

1 hour ago, Rhinoww said:

HSA decided these were exceptional sticks by Royal Fiat.

Exactly. Well, at least that they warranted an exceptional price. The case can be made for Cohiba. Not for Trini, Monte 1935 and RyJ LdO. 

What they should have done with Trini if they wanted it to be flagship is first not putting Fundy in petacas. 24s and 50s were fine and I could even get on board with just 50s. 

There should never have been a Reyes or Coloniales. Controversial opinion, yes, I know. But at the time those smaller vitolas were going quickly out of fashion and being cut in most other brands. I think the Robustos Extra was a winner. Keep that and add some interesting vitolas for the time like Rodolfos or Hermosos No. 1 or 2. Sublimes was already around--that would have worked. 

Work hard at keeping the quality very high. Best leaf and top rollers. Prices can be similar to Cohiba. You're trying to place them side by side ultimately. Add a Cohiba-like gimmick such as only 2 year aged leaf. 

Instead Trini became just another brand with no justification for a doubling of price. Big time fail. 

[westg]

1 hour ago, Bill Hayes said:

Loved the Reyes when they first came out. Was my go-to cigar when you could smoke in bars and beer gardens. Seemed to go off the boil a bit and smoking habits changed to longer balcony smoking at home. I think they are trying to make Cohiba into Bordeaux and Trinidad into Burgundy. Question is, will it lower manufacture or create an initial stockpiling that might provide some great aged boxes at very high prices. Might work but I would leave Partagas, Bolivar, Monte, RYJ and Upmann as reasonably priced to keep the market interested. Could be an idea to keep the Siglo 1 and Reyes reasonably priced as an introduction to the blends, like a cheaper 4 cylinder BMW. 

Totally agree with the smaller formats

 

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, Bill Hayes said:

Question is, will it lower manufacture or create an initial stockpiling that might provide some great aged boxes at very high prices.

In the short term there is a surplus of Reyes and prices are moving down. I've seen prices as low as $350 right now. In Cuba Reyes is still stocked to the ceiling. Unfortunately anything leaving the island is going to have the higher prices. This will result in stock accumulating and destruction of the model if prices don't give. This will also be the case with Cohiba Exquisitos and Panetelas, and possibly Siglo I. And even Robustos are in the crosshairs as people don't realize how high CoRo production has always been. Duty free prices for CoRo are already 20% lower than Cuba price at the moment and we're only 6 weeks in to the price hikes. 

[mprach024]

Esmeralda’s and Topes at $290 for 12, I had no problem buying these anytime Di would say “you have a box”.  I have always been a Trini > Cohiba guy, and the Coloniales at $300-)400 for 24 was an absolute no brainer, probably my fav cigar in that range.

With the new prices….nope.  My buying is over.  Sad, but not really.  I get nearly the same pleasure from a great Mag 46, M2, BBF, P2, Lusi, RAG for half the new prices and I’ll be just fine filling my humidor with all these.  

[NSXCIGAR]

4 hours ago, chris12381 said:

Trinidad Fundadores were $14.24 or $341.65 a box.

I don't think that price is correct--Fundys were $10.90 or $261.60 as late as mid-2020. When I was there in Nov 17 they were even lower than that but only singles. They may have gone to the $341.65 price you have in the strange period in late 20-early 21 when the CUC was ended but Fundys were always one of--if not the--best deal on the island. 

[Fugu]

7 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

The La Trova could have been a great release, but was overpriced

It was positioned below the Fundie initially, which I thought was a wise move.

[Fugu]

The case isn’t even worth debating. Trinidad isn’t meant for us any longer. FUBAR.

As a smoker and even as a „collector“ (read hoarder) I know where I park my coin, and am happy where I did in the past.

Current Trini? - I don’t give a monkey‘s...

Honesty, I think it’s just a marketing move to distract from the brazen general pricing hike.

[El Presidente]

3 minutes ago, Fugu said:

Honesty, I think it’s just a marketing move to distract from the brazen general pricing hike.

You may be giving them a lot of credit .....