Should Employers have the right to request staff be vaccinated?


Vaccination in the work place.   

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As a front line healthcare worker I'm absolutely sick and tired of people coming in with covid now.  We did it last year, and our hospital lost half its staff. Now we're understaffed like every h

No way should they have that right. People should not be forced to accept a medical procedure in order to work, especially not an experimental and potentially very dangerous one. And it is very much e

Exactly, it’s like the current hysteria with kids supposedly getting it in any serious numbers. Absolutely no scientific or statistical evidence behind it, pure fear propaganda. If you are vaccin

1 minute ago, rjake100 said:

🎵Nothing left to do but smile smile smile🎵

Once and a while you get shown the light, 

In the strangest of places if you look at it right.

 

But when you are blind, it can be tough to see. 

 

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Sweden ... the "role model country" that did it all wrong, according to the Lancet, the most prestigious medical publication :

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00885-0/fulltext

In December, 2020, we wrote about the Swedish response to the COVID-19 pandemic.
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Our hope was that our Comment, together with hundreds of other fact-based articles, would gain the attention of the Swedish Public Health Agency (Folkhälsomyndigheten [FHM]), that they would revisit and change the national strategy that they had designed so that it would be more aligned with global best practice, and that the political decision makers would act on it. They did not. Since then, the FHM has recorded more than 5600 deaths from COVID-19 in Sweden, and cases and deaths continue to rise as we face the third wave without any widespread sense of gravity or urgency.

The debate among critics of the Swedish national approach to the pandemic has been consistent since March, 2020: be strategic, test and trace more, follow the growing evidence base and recommend the use of face masks, and enforce regulations about physical distancing and ventilation, especially in schools if they are open. Some critics have advocated for more government-led legal interventions such as reinforcing quarantine or lockdown. It has been a call for timely implementation of basic principles of pandemic prevention and control to contain the spread and flatten the curves of hospitalisations, deaths, and chronic illness.
 
Instead of following evolving evidence, the FHM has doubled down and defended its approach without reconsidering the assumptions on which the failed national approach is based. It has downplayed the roles of asymptomatic spread, aerosol transmission, children as potential source of infection, and the use of face masks. It has maintained an approach that mainly builds on recommendations to take voluntary actions, guided (in our view) more by public opinion than by sound public health policy. The media has played a crucial role in this pandemic response, mostly lacking in investigative journalism and failing to question or hold the public health agency accountable, with some exceptions.
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Dagens Nyheter, a major newspaper, recently exposed
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Sweden's large inequities in COVID-19 deaths across income, education, and origin of birth—data that should have informed the national strategy from its inception.
As of April 16, 2021, more than 13 700 people have died from COVID-19 in Sweden. The country has one of the highest infection rates in western Europe according to Our World in Data COVID-19 statistics, with 606 new infections per million per day, while its neighbours Denmark, Finland, and Norway reported 115, 62, and 112 new infections per million per day, respectively (April 15, 2021). New and more infective and deadly variants have taken over, and by April 15, 2021, the UK SARS-Cov-2 variant was supected to have caused 75–100% of all new cases in all regions. This indicates more rapid spread, more deaths, and that more young people will be affected, with intensive care units already at full capacity in some regions.
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While other countries are closing down in response to this new surge in cases, Sweden is opening up—high schools were opened on April 1, 2021. To continue on the same trajectory in the face of current trends, without timely action by agency and government leadership, raises concerns about governance and accountability, and ultimately about fundamental ethics and values.

 

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1 hour ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

None of it surprises me. These are the same conversations I've been having since February of 2020. Despite going on three live webshows and accurately predicting the infection numbers and deaths, people who refused to believe it never came around.

For the most part now I don't bother engaging because I don't believe people engaging in the discussion are interested in broadening their understanding, they're only interested in being right

Do you have any self awareness at all?  One sentence you tell us how right you are about everything, then in the very next sentence you say debate is pointless because people are "only interested in being right"

😭

Okay that's really it this time LOL

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57 minutes ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

yah, I was just referring to this thread. 

First 3 pages was adult. Last few pages have turned to what I expected. 

Because more people showed up that disagreed with you so you can’t over assert your opinions? 
 

Give me a break. It’s been nothing but different opinions this whole time. No name calling or anything uncalled for. Quit trying to stir the pot for no reason 

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2 hours ago, Ciscojohansson said:

This sets a president. What will we do when the next disease comes? or the next problem that will end the world? Give up your freedoms and rights in the name of security and liberalism. Like Churchill said:The fascists of the future will call themselves anti-fascists

I agree with almost everything you said there.  Every person should be allowed to choose their own course of action, including a business owner.  I think we are talking about two different things, i.e. gov't vs. a private business.  St. Louis recently mandated that I mask up to protect the unvaccinated who won't protect me by getting vaccinated.  Only time will tell what the better choice was.  But in the mean time, screw their mandate.

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1 minute ago, therealrsr said:

 St. Louis recently mandated that I mask up to protect the unvaccinated who won't protect me by getting vaccinated.  Only time will tell what the better choice was.  But in the mean time, screw their mandate.

I haven't seen this take before.  😮

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31 minutes ago, therealrsr said:

I think we are talking about two different things, i.e. gov't vs. a private business.  

The problem is the general messaging from .gov is we can't mandate vaccines, but (wink and a nod) all you business should. When business are doing something at the urging of the .gov, that's one in the same to me. 

I said earlier probably on page 4, from covid .gov has figured out they can privatize everything they want to do, but can't. That is a terrible precedent, imo.   

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2 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

yah, I was just referring to this thread. 

First 3 pages was adult. Last few pages have turned to what I expected. 

Thn pull it around.  It is in your hands to do so. 

We play the ball and not the man. 

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11 minutes ago, Trapper99 said:

The problem is the general messaging from .gov is we can't mandate vaccines, but (wink and a nod) all you business should. When business are doing something at the urging of the .gov, that's one in the same to me. 

I said earlier probably on page 4, from covid .gov has figured out they can privatize everything they want to do, but can't. That is a terrible precedent, imo.   

This may not be the case outside the US but it is certainly the case inside the US.  If there is no shield from litigation business will happily follow along with what the government wants.  I would wager there will be certain 'immunities' for business put in place by the government if the 'private' business mandates vaxxes.  FB and the like are already being 'told' what to take down regarding vax information (or misinformation depending on your camp).

Government has a way of coercing big business to get what they want so the link between between big government and big business is not a large as it may appear.

Small business is a bit of a different story.  Not much they can do to me but they can make Coke/FB/(insert big company here) do just about anything to keep the profits rolling.

The 'private business' differentiation from government is a purple herring...erh....green herring....or is it red herring...?

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7 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

benefit of others and the society in general

I find it so interesting to look at my childhood (born in 1980) and how seamless society felt......well.... accept for the tories ha!.     No seriously,  society was so much more homogenous, bonded and together.    We had old polish refugees from war torn Europe on our street. Indians, Nigerians, Pakistani's, West Indians from the Windrush era.  Everyone was fascinated with one another, everyone was living in each others pockets.  It was a great community where everyone looked out for one another. Yes, there was still racism, but people were a great deal more co-dependant,  bonded    

These days, we should be so much further on shouldn't we.!?.....and in some ways we are.  But I cant help but think society collapsed back into tribalism, and the same communities I grew up with now seem a great deal more segregated and insular.   I cant help but think the independence the internet has offered, had seen to people retreating from one another. 

Back on topic.   I think this retraction has really weakened and impoverished as sense of community, less so this side of the pond, but the 'army of one' mentality that seems to have taken hold, and this idea of "why the hell should I do something that doesn't benefit me & my family exclusively?" ............erm maybe because it feels good? 

I find it really depressing that there is a growing percentage of people out there, that approach life and modern society like some sort of dooms day prepping exercise.   i.e. if you are not a direct blood relation, or have a carbon copy belief system,.....then get the hell out of my concrete bunker. 

 

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2 minutes ago, CommanderJWBond said:


I think she is ridiculous, but her fear is not. It is genuine and palpable.

That is the key point. 

She shouldn't be defined by her attitude to vaccines. You know her as a whole multifaceted person. You disagree on this issue. What are you going to do, yell at her and call her an idiot? Of course not. 

You talk it through. Provide the data. If she is on the right of the spectrum ( Bill Gates, 5G, Hellicopters & Tin hats)......you are still going to love her and she should know that.  

For the record I have a sibling who is much like your sister.   Love him but I am not responsible for his choices and I don't expend one iota of energy in worrying about them. 

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In this thread, individuals on the side of a mandate are wishing death upon unvaccinated individuals. 

Those in power can do what they want, the rest of us will react. For a business to mandate a COVID vaccine, considering all the available evidence, seems clumsy. If these mandates are simply theater with medical and religious exemptions as viable work arounds - while not an ideal scenario, some people have come to need the make believe. 

 

 

 

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Can I just say I absolutely love the term “Yanks”. I am one and it is so appropriate to describe the “you can’t make me do anything” crowd in this country. Vaccines have the absolute most data backing up benefit to society. Number 2 health innovation only behind clean drinking water when it comes to lives saved.

Continued covid infection among the unvaxxed is creating lovely new variants, it’s just the way it works. If we end up with a variant that causes breakthrough infections, I wouldn’t be disclosing your brave resistance to vaccination, it will be on you and your unvaxxed “cult”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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11 hours ago, Trapper99 said:

It seems now the goal is zero deaths with covid. How come we don’t have the same goal and restrictions with the flu or common cold? Today I will likely do many things that have an associated death rate with it, but I do it anyway. It’s a complex, nuanced, risky world made up of 8 billion individuals, and for this reason, I don’t think mandates are generally good. I believe businesses can legally ( for employees, patrons is questionable), but shouldn’t (to answer the original question 😂)

I call this group of people: zero covid. I follow some of these types on twitter. I think there's even a Canadian group called zero covid canada. To me they're basically the pro-vaccination equivalent of anti-vax people. They want to shut down society and force everyone to get vaccines until covid is completely gone, no matter how few deaths and serious illnesses are involved, and keep moving the goalposts so it never ends.

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4 hours ago, djrey said:

Because more people showed up that disagreed with you so you can’t over assert your opinions? 
 

Give me a break. It’s been nothing but different opinions this whole time. No name calling or anything uncalled for. Quit trying to stir the pot for no reason 

the ratio of 2\3 to 1\3 has been present since the inception of the poll.

 

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