Lemons

[BTWheezy]

10 hours ago, Bill Hayes said:

Range Rover have a bad reputation for spending more time in the shop than on the road. Almost as bad as an Alpha Romeo. Trade it for a top of the range Toyota Land Cruiser with all the wizz bang stuff on it - Drives like a sports car and can tow just about anything. Only thing is the petrol or diesel they burn through.

+1000 for Toyota products.

Have a buddy who restores old Land Cruisers...a real gear head.  He’s fond of saying “You can weld the hood shut on a Toyota, and they’ll run for 200,000 miles.”  

I used to drive an Audi A8. Drove it for less than a year. Constant issues. Pulled the plug, swallowed my loss, and liberated myself. Cars serve us...we don’t serve them. 

[BrightonCorgi]

44 minutes ago, Brandon said:

You’re correct. Currently under India's Tata Motors

 

Best thing to happen to them.  Tata has done a great job of getting silver platter and turning it into gold. 

[PigFish]

3 hours ago, Brandon said:

A British manufacturer with Ford ownership...

 

A lot of folks want everything in one vehicle.... 0-60 in 4 sec, 450 lb-ft of torque, seats 8, looks cool, 25+ mpg, can take a corner at 60mph, etc. I find it’s best to prioritize what’s most important, and learn to sacrifice on the rest. Never buy the first, major revamp of any car. Wait to see what does/doesn’t fail. If you wait to buy the cars when all the greatest changes are made, be prepared for TSBs, breakdowns, or lots of trips to the stealership. If you really care about saving several hundred a year on gas, stick to 4 cylinder sedans. Cylinder deactivation, engine shut off, etc... will all put additional wear on the starter, affect performance, or provide another source for failure or issues. SUVs, trucks, minivans, and sports cars are always harder on tires than compact sedans. Every car has issues. If you know how to work on cars, the minor issues aren’t a big deal. Major design issues are always a major headache. Every manufacturer has the potential to produce lemons... some more than others. At the end of the day, accounting and lawyers run the companies... not the engineers. Over engineering is NEVER a good thing. A warranty is only as good as the stealership and manufacturer you are dealing with.

 

Hopefully they are competent in fixing the issue, or you can get a refund. Start keeping a detailed log like you are expecting to go to court.

... Brandon, I would correct only one item in your roster of what is wrong with the modern automobile. Governments design the cars via mandates, under the guise of safety and performance (milage) standards. Overall the world of manufacturing automobiles does a great job when you think that societal engineers have so much to say about how they are made!

VW just sent me my last 'compensation' check for keeping my '15 Jetta diesel. Going fast does not really concern me. I live in an area where they have concrete parking lots of tandem cars and call them freeways. Speed therefore, is not an issue. Yet I can get 600 to 700 miles out of 14 gallons of fuel. An accident at over 15mph will likely total both the car and me anyway!!!

If I want safety I will choose to drive my 8000 lb truck and pity anyone that I hit driving a diesel Jetta! Like you suggest. You cannot really have it all in one car. Yet I can haul a couple of horses through the desert heat, texting, holding the dog in my lap in air conditioned comfort, while reaching for my mixed frosty $5 iced coffee drink that has some form of fairy princess on the cup, just like some trophy wife in her expensive Euro car, less the two horses.

In the end, an automobile has come to be one of the least important things in my life. It is right up there with $5 mixed, frosty, iced coffee drinks with a fairy princess on the cup!

-Piggy

[patrick_harmon44]

Range rovers here in the states have a notorious return rating per vehicle . 6:1 I've never heard of anything else ever coming close. Also never met anynody drives one regularly and said they loved it. Alpha come on man no brainer.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[PapaDisco]

I once owned a Land Rover Discovery and really enjoyed its design and layout (this was before I had kids), but it was a bit glitchy; particularly off-road.  Now I'm not talking about serious off-roading (a la "Ken at the beach"  ), I'm talking about taking it down through the hay following a well-worn tractor track.  Invariably something electronic would get snagged and the thing would stop dead, waiting for its tow truck.   Had a few other electric glitches at the outset but once service had a hack at it everything was o.k. and after the first 6 months, the next 5 years of ownership were great.  Drove it coast to coast, etc. never did anything other than gas, oil and tires after that initial shake-out period.

Now with kids, Rovers are out of the question.  Interior layout is not kid friendly and they don't carry enough, whereas a lowly Toyota Highlander Hybrid will seat young-uns and their friends and still get 28-30MPG.  Maybe when everyone's in college we'll go back to one of those stylin' Rovers though.  They are mighty puuuuuurty!  

[...]

I buy Toyotas. Neither sexy nor luxury but I need my vehicle for work and never had an issue in the past 20 years/5 different vehicles. To each his own...

[joeypots]

I like Toyotas as well. If you get the Limited trim levels or above in the SUVs they get pretty damn nice. The new Land Cruisers are right there with the Land Rovers. 

[SigmundChurchill]

1 hour ago, PapaDisco said:

I once owned a Land Rover Discovery and really enjoyed its design and layout (this was before I had kids), but it was a bit glitchy; particularly off-road.  Now I'm not talking about serious off-roading (a la "Ken at the beach"  ), I'm talking about taking it down through the hay following a well-worn tractor track.  Invariably something electronic would get snagged and the thing would stop dead, waiting for its tow truck.   Had a few other electric glitches at the outset but once service had a hack at it everything was o.k. and after the first 6 months, the next 5 years of ownership were great.  Drove it coast to coast, etc. never did anything other than gas, oil and tires after that initial shake-out period.

Now with kids, Rovers are out of the question.  Interior layout is not kid friendly and they don't carry enough, whereas a lowly Toyota Highlander Hybrid will seat young-uns and their friends and still get 28-30MPG.  Maybe when everyone's in college we'll go back to one of those stylin' Rovers though.  They are mighty puuuuuurty!  

I drive a Range Rover.  It is great with my 3 kids.  Plenty of room in the back seat and lots of cargo space behind that.  My wife wont drive one because she insists on a 3rd row for when the kids have friends in the car.  Oddly enough, I think the smaller “Sport” does have a 3rd row option.

As to its reliability, I just brought it in for its first service, 18 months into owning it.  I haven’t had any issues yet.  But strangely, I got a call from the service rep the day they were working on my car.  He asked me “How long has the driver’s side window has been acting up?”  I said “Since never.”  He said “Well, its acting up now.  We will fix it while it’s here.”

[retrofail]

5 hours ago, FatherOfPugs said:

Wife and I drove 2 Ford Tauruses while in grad and law school. Worst cars ever. I found out FORD truly stands for Fix Or Repair Daily. Between the two cars we put in 2 transmissions, 5 starters, countless headlights, a new brake pedal, and 3 batteries. Just awful. I will never buy another Ford vehicle of any sort.

I now have what I drove in high school, a fantastic quad cab Chevy Silverado 1500 with the 6.2L V8 455hp. I love it!  I will never not have a Chevy truck again, they are the most reliable vehicle I've ever driven.

The wife now drives a Cadillac ATS and she really likes it. It's small, but has a ton of get-up-and-go.

We Texans and our trucks!! GMC Sierra 1500 SLT here. Lifted of course! Love it! 

[Philc2001]

Talk about lemons... I had a 1993 Ford Explorer, the worst piece of trash I ever owned. I have sworn off Fords ever since, and I will never put another $ into another Ford, no matter what they come out with. This vehicle was literally biodegradable, it was disintegrating in front of my eyes.

• Within 18 months the alternator broke, not covered under warranty for some reason.
• Then the battery a couple of months later, also not covered.  
• Within the first 3 years the A/C died and released black teflon particles throughout the system. Ford insiders lovingly refer to it as the Black Plague. Not covered.
• It ate oil. I took it to Ford under warranty, they marked the dip stick at full and told me to drive until the low-oil light came on - that was 750 miles. Guess what, that's within Ford's spec to burn 1 quart of oil per 750 miles, so not covered.
• The interior door handles all snapped off and had to be glued/bolted or taped back on.
• The power seat on the passenger side stopped sliding. Discovered the drive motor uses a plastic shaft, which snapped. But you can't replace the shaft, or even the motor because it is all integrated and welded to the seat frame, so you can only replace the entire seat ($$$). The seat remained stuck in place from there onward.
• The tires were the infamous Firestone scalping tires. One of the rear tires decapped itself on Alligator Alley in 95DF temps after 2 hours of driving. The spare is held by a chain out back. Guess where the crank rod is to lower the spare tire??? Over the radiator in the engine compartment... burn, sizzle, F#CK!! What genius thought of that?
• My brakes failed, pedal to the floor at 60k miles. The tech at the repair shop called me over to look under the car... all the brake lines and the junctions where the brake lines are routed through were all corroded and leaking brake fluid... WTF?? Ford used mild steel on a Northern vehicle to save about $0.25 instead of using aluminum or SS. 
• Oh, and those f'ing squeaky bushings, every bump was like a bad orchestra of squeaks and rattles. 

I could go on! Eventually I gave the car to charity and took a tax write-off rather than try to sell it. Never buy a Ford!  

[99call]

[Ribeye]

My wife and I went to test drive one recently.  The salesman went to get the keys. He tried to start it, but it was dead as can be.  He went to get the keys for another and found that to be dead as well. We thanked him, though he offered to try another, we had seen enough Land Rover.

[cigaraholic]

You bought a British car and thought it wouldn’t be in the shop after 5 days?.....let me introduce you to Mr Lucas and Mr Smith

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, cigaraholic said:

You bought a British car and thought it wouldn’t be in the shop after 5 days?.....let me introduce you to Mr Lucas and Mr Smith

About 1 in 6 cars here in Oz are a 4X4  (1 in 3 a SUV) so Land Rover have a long history in this country. Glitchy...yes, but no worse than any other non japanese/german car. Jeep is our worst 4X4 in terms of customer satisfaction by a country mile. I loved my last two Jeeps albeit my JK was a mechanical piece of crap (but easy enough to rectify). 

Toyota is the king of 4X4 but also king of fuel consumption in the sector. I respect them a great deal but just find them to be soulless.  if I really needed a 4X4 for weekly tasks then i would pick no other. I wasn't looking for a straight 4x4 this time around. 

Small, luxury, 10/10 sound system, panoramic sun-roof, tows and  runs along the beach, insane fuel economy, ton of style = just one choice at the moment. 

Unfortunately it just isn't running 

 

[Ken Gargett]

40 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

About 1 in 6 cars here in Oz are a 4X4  (1 in 3 a SUV) so Land Rover have a long history in this country. Glitchy...yes, but no worse than any other non japanese/german car. Jeep is our worst 4X4 in terms of customer satisfaction by a country mile. I loved my last two Jeeps albeit my JK was a mechanical piece of crap (but easy enough to rectify). 

Toyota is the king of 4X4 but also king of fuel consumption in the sector. I respect them a great deal but just find them to be soulless.  if I really needed a 4X4 for weekly tasks then i would pick no other. I wasn't looking for a straight 4x4 this time around. 

Small, luxury, 10/10 sound system, panoramic sun-roof, tows and  runs along the beach, insane fuel economy, ton of style = just one choice at the moment. 

Unfortunately it just isn't running 

 

the family went between range rovers and land cruisers for years when i was younger. i rather liked the range rovers but the land cruiser almost never ever let us down. and could do anything. i remember an issue with a wheel once but otherwise, brilliant. 

and i'll never forget when  the guy towed the range rover off fraser after the ocean dunking, his view was that he'd be out of business if everyone drove toyotas. they averaged towing a couple of cars out of the ocean a week, let alone many more just from the beach, and yet almost never called for a land cruiser. 

[prodigy]

I just can't bring myself to give my money to a manufacturer who needs government assistance to stay in business. Chevy will no longer be supported by me, and I know so many others who feel the same way.

We Texans and our trucks!! GMC Sierra 1500 SLT here. Lifted of course! Love it! 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

[retrofail]

3 minutes ago, prodigy said:

I just can't bring myself to give my money to a manufacturer who needs government assistance to stay in business. Chevy will no longer be supported by me, and I know so many others who feel the same way.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 

 

To each their own. As a truck guy, only Ford would meet that requirement (domestic wise), and that's not happening for me. Can't stand them. Won't own one. 

[prodigy]

Yea, to each their own. I guess really we are all Chevy owners though, since billions of our tax dollars kept them afloat...

To each their own. As a truck guy, only Ford would meet that requirement (domestic wise), and that's not happening for me. Can't stand them. Won't own one. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

[Colt45]

Ayalans 6:66 :

when thou is given lemons

ye shall make lemonade.

 

The Bentley Bentayga is available in diesel - go ahead, you know you want to... 

[cigaraholic]

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

About 1 in 6 cars here in Oz are a 4X4  (1 in 3 a SUV) so Land Rover have a long history in this country. Glitchy...yes, but no worse than any other non japanese/german car. Jeep is our worst 4X4 in terms of customer satisfaction by a country mile. I loved my last two Jeeps albeit my JK was a mechanical piece of crap (but easy enough to rectify). 

Toyota is the king of 4X4 but also king of fuel consumption in the sector. I respect them a great deal but just find them to be soulless.  if I really needed a 4X4 for weekly tasks then i would pick no other. I wasn't looking for a straight 4x4 this time around. 

Small, luxury, 10/10 sound system, panoramic sun-roof, tows and  runs along the beach, insane fuel economy, ton of style = just one choice at the moment. 

Unfortunately it just isn't running 

 

Fortunately....and unfortunately I grew up with 2 Jaguar’s in the family......maybe that’s why I drive a Toyota today?

[Duxnutz]

Anyone have issues with Jeep? I’ve owned several Grand Cherokee’s, including a super old Cherokee with the cast iron block back in ‘96. Lasted a long time, even through winters in Wisconsin and parked out in the elements. 

Thinking about test driving the newer model this weekend but have heard reliability isn’t once it once was. My friend who owns an F150 just laughs at me uncontrollably. Pity I don’t like trucks.

[prodigy]

It's all dependent on your situation. People have bad experiences with every brand. Toyota has been good to me. I've had their 80's series trucks that go well over 400,000 miles with regular maintenance. My buddy had a Chevy 1500 that was a money pit. Everyone has had a money pit from every manufacturer. Letting one or 2 cars determine your outlook for the entire brand for the rest of your life would be equivalent to smoking one rass, esplendido or Monte 2, and then never smoking another from that marca again due to the one bad experience.

If a company decides that it has 2 options, go bankrupt or bail out from the government, then they aren't a company anyone with the slightest sense of patriotism should support. Lots of companies, and people, lost everything during the crash that the big banks caused. Why didn't the government help all those people? Why do they get to choose who succeeds and who fails? Funny how Chevy has so many "awards" now that they've been bailed out by the government, that they never had before? I doubt it's because all if a sudden they put out a "better" product.

My biggest regret in life is selling my 2000 f250 lariat 7.3L diesel....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

[SMQQKIN]

I used to work for one of the worst US quality car/truck manufacturers for over 15 yrs  in customer relations & then was a regional mfr rep for over 250 franchised dealers in sales & service. Later was head of warranty & vehicle service. I've litigated many lemon law consumer cases for the mfr vs. the consumer. I can't speak to Australian lemon law but I can tell you that you must be vigilant in your pressure on the mfr if you are looking for a buyback. Don't let up, keep all of your repair receipts, continue to take it back to the dealership if the problem is not corrected over & over, build your case, call the mfrs customer relations dept to convey your dissatisfaction often, make sure they document your dissatisfaction. request to meet with the regional mfr rep., ask for a factory tech to oversee the repair & push in a fair but aggressive manner.  The mfr wants you to be happy with the product & will eventually cave if you follow this process.

[BrightonCorgi]

I had a full size Range Rover HSE and it was a solid car.  Fuel pump died and that was the only time left stranded.  I wasn't a big fan of standing on the rear tires to wash the roof.  I am almost fell off once...   Great car in the snow.  Loved the heated windshield and tropical AC option for the summer.

 

[Jimmy_jack]

Actually there is a real good YouTube channel (I’ll find it) and the guy reviews cars and all their issues and quirks and stuff. He bought a Landeover at CarMax and got the extended number to number warranty for an additional 3k(?). 

Said it paid for itself in a matter of months and now the people at carmax hate him. Lesson is, in the USA buy one at carmax, get the warranty.

uldate: found the video 

 

https://youtu.be/FvJCCoLoKRA