Lemons

[El Presidente]

Hmmm.....my new car could indeed be a "lemon". 

Day 5 where it is in the shop.  The brand spanking New Range Rover has a predilection to shutting down (putting itself in park and turning off) at traffic lights. It then may or may not decide to turn on again. 

Land Rover workshop are stumped and have referred it to the UK.  In the meantime I am on my way to pick up the hire car they have provided. 

It is times like these where I wish we had lemon laws in Oz.  I know they are in the USA but do they exist in EU countries?

The customer satisfaction survey sitting in my intray should be an interesting experience. 

And to think.....I didn't buy the Alfa Romeo Stelvia because of reliability concerns. 

Let us know if you have owned any lemons in your time and if you have lemon laws in your country?

 

[Jimmy_jack]

Land Rover. They make such an amazing vehicle. Also have such a horrible service record. You’d think they would have figure it all out by now.

sorrybto heat about the troubles Pres. I hope it works out.

[Ken Gargett]

old man drove range rovers for years. he knew about as much as i do about cars (his brother, on the other hand, knew pretty much everything - had a big collection of vintage cars including old rollers, had even had some parts he designed for car repairs patented, and owned the second range rover to ever come to australia).

but dad was a lawyer (name at the top of the letterhead is much more useful than lemon laws). i remember one we picked up new. it had some issues. those issues had issues. by the time dad finished, i think rover were close to shutting up shop and leaving australia. if you think i am bloody-minded...

the last time i drove one, i put it in the pacific. but had the idiots designing the thing not had the computers hidden away on the floor, i'd have been fine. salt water into a car's computer does not help. thankfully, the beach at fraser is a gazetted highway (lord knows why) so fortunately, all insured. 

[JamesKPolkEsq]

No Lemon laws, I'm really surprised to hear that... 

What about the warranty? 

[retrofail]

Sure we have lemon laws in the US, but God is it a miserable beat down of an experience. The manufacturers sure aren't exactly receptive to the idea and all the burden lays on the buyer. Fellow Army vet spent almost 6 months fighting Ford over a Fusion that lived most of its 8 months of ownership in the dealer's shop. 

[WABOOM]

I live in Minnesota. We have a high level of consumer protection here. At the top of the of the list for states in the U.S. We have the Consumer Protection Agency and the Attorney General to thank for that. Automobile lemon law is relatively easy to enforce when properly documented. Fortunately I have never had to go thru it myself but I have friends who have done it.

[Lotusguy]

My 2003 Mercedes E55 AMG was the worst car I ever owned. Brilliant when it ran. Didn’t run for about 5 months of the one year of ownership. Mostly all kinds of electrical problems on this first model year. I didn’t bother with the lemon law, just sold it after the last repair.

It put me off the brand so much I bought a Lotus Elise because I thought it would be more reliable(!!) and it was for 10 years - due to no electronics to go wrong and the drivetrain being Toyota. Manual windows and no power steering for the win!

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, JamesKPolkEsq said:

No Lemon laws, I'm really surprised to hear that... 

What about the warranty? 

Warranty is working like a charm 

[Bill Hayes]

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Hmmm.....my new car could indeed be a "lemon". 

Day 5 where it is in the shop.  The brand spanking New Range Rover has a predilection to shutting down (putting itself in park and turning off) at traffic lights. It then may or may not decide to turn on again. 

Land Rover workshop are stumped and have referred it to the UK.  In the meantime I am on my way to pick up the hire car they have provided. 

It is times like these where I wish we had lemon laws in Oz.  I know they are in the USA but do they exist in EU countries?

The customer satisfaction survey sitting in my intray should be an interesting experience. 

And to think.....I didn't buy the Alfa Romeo Stelvia because of reliability concerns. 

Let us know if you have owned any lemons in your time and if you have lemon laws in your country?

 

Range Rover have a bad reputation for spending more time in the shop than on the road. Almost as bad as an Alpha Romeo. Trade it for a top of the range Toyota Land Cruiser with all the wizz bang stuff on it - Drives like a sports car and can tow just about anything. Only thing is the petrol or diesel they burn through.

[jackupster]

Japanese my friends! On my second Toyota SUV in 10 years with a total of 400k miles. I drive a ton. No major malfunctions other than normal stuff. If you want luxury by a Lexus! The British build beautiful piles of crap. The Germans build beautiful expensive less crappy cars. I love my 4 Runner Limited! 

[Lotusguy]

Range Rover have a bad reputation for spending more time in the shop than on the road. Almost as bad as an Alpha Romeo. Trade it for a top of the range Toyota Land Cruiser with all the wizz bang stuff on it - Drives like a sports car and can tow just about anything. Only thing is the petrol or diesel they burn through.

You have clearly never driven a sports car...

[Bill Hayes]

1 hour ago, Lotusguy said:

You have clearly never driven a sports car...

Fair call.  I was in a new Land Cruiser earlier in the year and was blown away by the way it drove compared to what they used to be.

[ayepatz]

Moro Guzzi Griso 8V. Typically Italian sports bike. Beautiful to behold. Thoroughly unreliable. The ultimate expression of lemonhood. Currently for sale. ?

[Akela3rd]

Moro Guzzi Griso 8V. Typically Italian sports bike. Beautiful to behold. Thoroughly unreliable. The ultimate expression of lemonhood. Currently for sale.

Great pitch!

[Fuzz]

Qld Govt consumer laws:

When there is a major failure, you can:

• reject the vehicle and choose a refund or a replacement
• ask for compensation for any drop in value of the vehicle.

A major failure to comply with a consumer guarantee is when:

• a reasonable consumer would not have bought the vehicle if they knew about the problem or a series of problems. For example, a reasonable consumer would not buy a new car with a fault that several mechanics could not fix. A reasonable consumer would not buy a new car if it had so many faults that the car has spent more time off the road than on it
• the vehicle is significantly different from the description, sample or demonstration model shown to the consumer. For example, a consumer orders a vehicle with a diesel engine after test-driving the diesel demonstration model, but the vehicle delivered has a petrol engine
• the vehicle is substantially unfit for its normal purpose and can’t be made fit within a reasonable time
• the vehicle is substantially unfit for a purpose the consumer told the dealer they needed it for
• the vehicle is dangerous to use because of the problems it experiences.

 

I would think that if that a vehicle that shuts off by itself and may not start again (especially in traffic) is a major fault. And if all the mechanics cannot find the fault and repair it, either a refund or replacement is required.

[anacostiakat]

Pretty surprised there are no lemon laws there.  I can remember as a kid seeing cars that had lemon decals all over them.    Good luck with replacing it with something reliable.

[Fugu]

3 hours ago, ayepatz said:

Moro Guzzi Griso 8V. Typically Italian sports bike. Beautiful to behold. Thoroughly unreliable. The ultimate expression of lemonhood. Currently for sale. ?

Friend just yesterday bought a '98 Cali 1100. Such a great cruiser. Those were the times when Guzzi still made gorgeous bikes. (Griso - I mean - that dashboard...)

[El Hoze]

I have had a number of RR and RR Sports over the years. The most common/annoying problem I am aware of is the “Suspension Error do not exceed 30mph” message. Have had it a couple of times over the years. Once just restarting the car fixed it. 

We now have a 2017 Sport, have about 20K miles on it, and have not had any problems at all (touch wood as they say). 

I keep going back to RR as my favorite SUV however. For the Mrs we typically alternate between RR and Cayennes. I prefer the RR, feels more like a real truck to me and I cycle through sports cars constantly so I’m not looking for performance. 

[LGC]

A British manufacturer with Ford ownership...

 

A lot of folks want everything in one vehicle.... 0-60 in 4 sec, 450 lb-ft of torque, seats 8, looks cool, 25+ mpg, can take a corner at 60mph, etc. I find it’s best to prioritize what’s most important, and learn to sacrifice on the rest. Never buy the first, major revamp of any car. Wait to see what does/doesn’t fail. If you wait to buy the cars when all the greatest changes are made, be prepared for TSBs, breakdowns, or lots of trips to the stealership. If you really care about saving several hundred a year on gas, stick to 4 cylinder sedans. Cylinder deactivation, engine shut off, etc... will all put additional wear on the starter, affect performance, or provide another source for failure or issues. SUVs, trucks, minivans, and sports cars are always harder on tires than compact sedans. Every car has issues. If you know how to work on cars, the minor issues aren’t a big deal. Major design issues are always a major headache. Every manufacturer has the potential to produce lemons... some more than others. At the end of the day, accounting and lawyers run the companies... not the engineers. Over engineering is NEVER a good thing. A warranty is only as good as the stealership and manufacturer you are dealing with.

 

Hopefully they are competent in fixing the issue, or you can get a refund. Start keeping a detailed log like you are expecting to go to court.

[ayepatz]

44 minutes ago, Fugu said:

Friend just yesterday bought a '98 Cali 1100. Such a great cruiser. Those were the times when Guzzi still made gorgeous bikes. (Griso - I mean - that dashboard...)

The electrics seem to have come from a primary school  science class. Such a shame. When it runs it is a fabulous thing. Particularly with the Termignoni end-can.

[Colt45]

That's unfortunate. Crappy to have a new car pulled apart - hope they figure it out.

[BrightonCorgi]

The cool cars are usually not most reliable.  I am big JLR product fan and most of their franchise dealerships have poor service technicians.  In my locale, it was the stand alone Jaguar dealerships that could fix a car, but JLR shut most of them down because they needed to sell both Jag and LR.

From both personal and JLR forum experience, I would talk directly to your regional JLR head to make sure the right people are on top of the job.  I have post issues on my Jag on a Jaguar forum and JLR North America has contacted me directly from my posts!  I know they do care, but you need to be the squeaky wheel.

 

[godpheonix]

i never bought a car without making a thorough search on them. so you can imagine my list of car brands is small! lol

[WABOOM]

Ford doesn't own Land Rover

A British manufacturer with Ford ownership...
 
A lot of folks want everything in one vehicle.... 0-60 in 4 sec, 450 lb-ft of torque, seats 8, looks cool, 25+ mpg, can take a corner at 60mph, etc. I find it’s best to prioritize what’s most important, and learn to sacrifice on the rest. Never buy the first, major revamp of any car. Wait to see what does/doesn’t fail. If you wait to buy the cars when all the greatest changes are made, be prepared for TSBs, breakdowns, or lots of trips to the stealership. If you really care about saving several hundred a year on gas, stick to 4 cylinder sedans. Cylinder deactivation, engine shut off, etc... will all put additional wear on the starter, affect performance, or provide another source for failure or issues. SUVs, trucks, minivans, and sports cars are always harder on tires than compact sedans. Every car has issues. If you know how to work on cars, the minor issues aren’t a big deal. Major design issues are always a major headache. Every manufacturer has the potential to produce lemons... some more than others. At the end of the day, accounting and lawyers run the companies... not the engineers. Over engineering is NEVER a good thing. A warranty is only as good as the stealership and manufacturer you are dealing with.
 
Hopefully they are competent in fixing the issue, or you can get a refund. Start keeping a detailed log like you are expecting to go to court.

[LGC]

Ford doesn't own Land Rover

You’re correct. Currently under India's Tata Motors