Is the Trinidad blend more opulent than Cohiba?

[99call]

In the middle of smoking a Trinidad Coloniales, and it just screams class. Rich buttery madeira cake, vanilla, white wood, a touch of salt, oodles of cream. I have had huge success with Trinidad, and always respected it as being HSA's 'real' premo line. Over the years, I've probably only smoked about 25 Cohibas all from different boxes/different ages, and i've always been massively underwhelmed. Ultimately I just find that whole Hay&Honey thing to be over refined, and a bit characterless. 

My question is this, If the Trinidad blend was given the vitola line of Cohiba, money etc, would it read better as the most well balanced luxurious blend/brand?

[Tollickd]

Well I saw a episode of the dr joe show and he touched on the same subject, I have never tried a Trinidad I have one in my collection will give it a try soon is Cohiba just a marketing toy?


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[99call]

2 minutes ago, Tollickd said:

Well I saw a episode of the dr joe show and he touched on the same subject, I have never tried a Trinidad I have one in my collection will give it a try soon is Cohiba just a marketing toy?


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Yep I have seen that Dr Joe video. I'm not really discussing or want to get entrenched in conspiracy of yesteryear, or how the brands started out, more to take a stark look at the blends as they stand up today. 

To me Cohiba is like George Seurat's painting "A Sunday on La Grande Jatte'. Initially when you look at it, it's very pleasing, but very quickly you realise it doesn't really hit any chord of importance with the human condition, it's over refined and saccharine. To me Cohiba is like trying to create a robot, the bit that your missing is charisma, a bit of dirt, gusto, and heart. 

I will keep on trying sporadically with Cohiba, and give it a fair go, but to me the Trinidad blend is a true work of art, it has beauty and it has edge. To me If it were a painting, it would be "The Execution of Lady Jane Grey"

[Tollickd]

No I am am on about where he says that this may have more finer tobacco and more refinement


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[99call]

3 minutes ago, Tollickd said:

No I am am on about where he says that this may have more finer tobacco and more refinement


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Yep, I definitely hear what your saying, and it may well of been the case. I'm just suggesting that as time has gone the following may be the case

1960-70

Trindad= Superior tobacco & Superior blend

Cohiba= Slightly inferior tobacco & Slightly Inferior Blend

Current day

Trinidad= Slightly Inferior tobacco & Superior blend

Cohiba= Superior tobacco & Slightly Inferior blend

 

 

[Peekay]

I find Trinidad to be much more consistent across their range than Cohiba. I enjoy both immensley but would rather a Trinidad if pushed due to the consistency in both construction and blend. 

[ayepatz]

I really enjoy both, but, for me, Trinidad is a much richer, darker smoke. Cohiba I find full of lighter flavours.

But opulence comes in many forms, from light carrera marble to dark mahogany.

To continue your art analogy, it’s like comparing Chiaroscuro with Impressionism.

The opulence of the smoking experience I would rate as about equal, with the proviso that the cigars must have some decent age on them to get the full effect.

[99call]

5 minutes ago, ayepatz said:

But opulence come in many forms, from light carrera marble to dark mahogany.

Great point, I think my use of the word opulence was a mistake.  I guess I was trying to communicate a blend that embodied the 'perfect imperfection'. i find something disingenuous about Cohiba. The human idea of perfection as something being clean and perfect. to me is faulted, as it looses warmth, it looses charisma. 

To me Trinidad has gone along way down that clean path to 'perfection', but holds on to that little bit of grunt, and in doing so surpasses Cohiba. I will Let the wonderful Eva Mendes illustrate how I see the two different blends.

[Fugu]

1 hour ago, 99call said:

1960-70

Trindad= Superior tobacco & Superior blend

Cohiba= Slightly inferior tobacco & Slightly Inferior Blend

???

Trini has only been established in '69, commercially available since about 1997. Cohiba production started in '64, even not bearing a brand name before 1966, being commercially available from 1984 on. I guess, we are not talking about the diplomatic gifts era in this context? Are you really considering yourself as being able to evaluate that? I think it will be rather difficult to make any sound statement about blends and consistency thereof prior to the commercial launch of each brand.

But back to the point of your post (nice topic!). I agree, I don't think both marcas have much in common besides their aura of "premium" and them having been used as diplo-gifts before their public release (actually being way further apart than your above example of Eva Mendes). Let me put it this way - smoking a Trini is always leaving me satisfied, even when young. Cohiba is more often hit and miss (which also can be an issue from high production volume at occasion), but can climb to extra hights when "on" and when properly aged. Their profiles don't have much in common for me, and Cohiba is generally showing more refinement that can get lost on someone easily. "Rich" (but not necessarily "dark") is a good descriptor for Trini, I agree @ayepatz.

I value, perhaps even occasionally look up to Cohiba, while I love Trini.

[99call]

18 minutes ago, Fugu said:

???

Trini has only been established in '69, commercially available since about 1997. Cohiba production started in '64, even not bearing a brand name before 1966, being commercially available from 1984 on. I guess, we are not talking about the diplomatic gifts era in this context? Are you really considering yourself as being able to evaluate that?

A little pedantic there mate, I was never initially talking about the origins of either brand, it was something someone else brought up. I was speculating of rumour mills that Dr Joe brought up in a Youtube video. Is 1969 not in the 60s?. It was blindly to suggest that maybe at the inception of the brand, it was intended to be the cream of the crop, not that I had personally sampled them. 

My interest is in the blends today

18 minutes ago, Fugu said:

Cohiba is generally showing more refinement that can get lost on someone easily. "Rich"

Great to hear your views on the matter. Whats your views on the idea of refinement? To me things that resonate best as being overwhelmingly enjoyable, are things that have a balance of dark and light. To me the reason I feel as if Cohiba falls down, is their isn't any vying darker factor within the blend.  

 

[Fugu]

3 minutes ago, 99call said:

A little pedantic there mate, I was never initially talking about the origins of either brand, it was something someone else brought up.

I am always pedantic, you should know....

So is that '60-'70 statement your saying, or you citing someone else (Dr. Joe?)? Anyway, how would anyone know and derive any conclusions from a one-year production run? And on top of that from a very limited production, available only to a select few? Just saying that I don't see where the facts substantiating such a claim should derive from. I guess this statement is of little value, if any, tbh, irrespective of who's come up with it. No offence meant, just curious to know (pedantically enquiring )

[99call]

1 minute ago, Fugu said:

I am always pedantic, you should know....

So is that '60-'70 statement your saying, or you citing someone else (Dr. Joe?)? Anyway, how would anyone know and derive any conclusions from a one-year production run? And on top of that from a very limited production, available only to a select few? Just saying that I don't see where the facts substantiating such a claim should derive from. I guess this statement is of little value, if any, tbh, irrespective of who's come up with it. No offence meant, just curious to know (pedantically enquiring )

Someone referred to a Dr Joe video, and the concept that Trinidad was 'THE' premo production cigar (whether available to the public or not). Personally I cant stand Dr Joe, it's like being at the arse end of a party, sat with a coke crazed madman, melting your face with aimless chat. I have absolutely zero interest on the rumour mills etc. I place no value on them, I was essentially saying to the person that posted. "I know what you're referring to, and I get the idea........but it's not what I'm talking about"

The main focus on why I started the tread was to see from everyone if they thought that if two marcas swapped places in their available vitolas. Would the Trinidad blend 'read' more accurately as the most luxurious, high quality cigars. 

 

[BrightonCorgi]

I like them both equally, but Cohiba has more bases covered in their line up than Trinidad.  

[HDGSN]

Sounds like I need to get my hands on some Trinis. I have only ever had 2 Reyes. Maybe there will be some Fundies in Cuba at cheaper prices later this year?

[joeypots]

I've smoked loads more Cohiba than Trinidad  and I've always been underwhelmed by Trinidad. It might just be a lack of experience but the Trinis I've had were mostly just blah. Get ready..... The Robusto Ts never did it for me and the construction was so loose I thought the cigars a waste. 

[ayepatz]

I think there’s something about the Trini blend that suits slimmer vitolas better. The fatter ones never seem as good, to me.

Whereas, Cohiba is much more even across the vitolas. An aged Robusto or Siglo VI can be every bit as good as an aged Lancero, and still have that trademark Cohiba taste.

To answer your question, @99call, I guess this means that, no I don’t believe Trini would read more accurately, unfortunately.

[99call]

53 minutes ago, ayepatz said:

To answer your question, @99call, I guess this means that, no I don’t believe Trini would read more accurately, unfortunately.

Cheers Iain, 

As always, a very even handed response

[canadianbeaver]

I would smoke more Trinidad, mrbeaver would smoke more Cohiba any day. I love collecting rarer Trinidad’s like T’s and the fact that the Cohiba Medio Siglo smokes beautifully even as a 2017. 

But so many Cohibas are available, by size, year, even Behike, maduro or preference, I do not think these two marcas compare on a general scale.

More rational, and my opinion only, would be Trinidad and Bolivar in taste, or SCDH in sizes available.

CB

[99call]

2 minutes ago, canadianbeaver said:

But so many Cohibas are available, by size, year, even Behike, maduro or preference, I do not think these two marcas compare on a general scale.

Cheers for the response CB, 

That was sort of the question is a way. If you had Trinidad in every vitola that you could have Cohiba in.  Which marca would you consider to be best value for money?

[bayoucitybrewer]

I've been smoking on a box of Trinidad Vigias I got around Christmas and just about everyone I shared with has agreed its about the best damn cigar they've smoked. Not an expert by any means but the Vigias are a dream from start to finish.  I wish I had more of them 

[Corylax18]

44 minutes ago, 99call said:

If you had Trinidad in every vitola that you could have Cohiba in.  Which marca would you consider to be best value for money?

If that's the question, Neither.

I smoke a lot of Trinidad and almost no Cohiba. But in either case I can not argue that either "Marca's" backstory and fancier packaging justifies the sky high prices compared to similar vitolas in other Marcas. I only buy my Trinidads in quantity on the island, and I probably wouldn't smoke many/any if I didn't have that option. I can't personally justify paying $250 for 24 PCs or $400-500 for 24 Fundys. Especially when there are so many other great options that cost far less. I can justify paying $158 for those PCs though, or $275 for the Fundys, especially when the $250 I saved pays for the flight to pick them up.

To answer the question as originally posed, no I don't think Trinidad is currently getting any more "love" than Cohiba regarding the Tobacco selection or blending. But, if given the choice between a Trinidad or Cohiba, my personal preference leans towards Trinidad.

Any comparisons between the early, diplomatic blends of each Marca and the current Marcas is really...... pointless. There has been far more change than constant in the Cuban cigar world in the last 50 years for those comparisons to mean much.    

[Wilzc]

I'm confused.

 

So Trinidad cigars have a huge mole somewhere?

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, 99call said:

Great point, I think my use of the word opulence was a mistake.  I guess I was trying to communicate a blend that embodied the 'perfect imperfection'. i find something disingenuous about Cohiba. The human idea of perfection as something being clean and perfect. to me is faulted, as it looses warmth, it looses charisma. 

To me Trinidad has gone along way down that clean path to 'perfection', but holds on to that little bit of grunt, and in doing so surpasses Cohiba. I will Let the wonderful Eva Mendes illustrate how I see the two different blends.

 

[Siberian Bear]

43 minutes ago, Wilzc said:

I'm confused.

 

So Trinidad cigars have a huge mole somewhere?

Yep, it's right under the pigtail 

[RijkdeGooier]

If we compare the original lines of both marcas then for me. 

1) Trinidad in medium bodied and therefore can come across as a more refined. 

2) Cohiba is more full bodied and needs a bit more development to show its nuances. 

In the end it is about personal preference. 

Jus a few notes from my own pedantic experiences ? with these particular lines  

Best Trini ever smoked was the original release 1998 Trinidad Fundadores, a cigar gifted by an esteemed cigar collector.

Best Cohiba ever smoked was an 1992 Robusto, a cigar gifted by an esteemed cigar merchant  

Both among the best cigars ever and very different but adhering to my points 1 and 2.

[Stump89]

Tough call.  I have always enjoyed Trinidad.  The Robusto Extra was one of my all time favorite cigars.  Can't say I've ever had a bad Trini.  I also love the Cohiba Corona Especial, but I have been disappointed by robustos and a few others.  Not that they were bad, but I think for the price I'd rather smoke/buy something else.