Suspect Partagas Lusitanias Gran Reserva

[ATGroom]

A CCW user sent me some pictures of his suspect box of Partagás Gran Reserva. I've already sent him my conclusion, but I thought I'd post it here anyway as I found this one more interesting than most of the suspect boxes I get sent.

[Clynch]

The serial number checks out on habanos' website

[Puros Y Vino]

Hmmm.."Serie P No 2" certainly looks suspicious.

[JoeyGunz]

I'm saying it's definitely a jekyll

[cigcars]

Wow, Frank - I wouldn't have noticed that "Serie P No. 2" on the box if you hadn't mentioned it!!! But - if those are El Falsos then those are the most carefully prepared and lovely crafted ones I've seen in a while. I know a guy who sells elaborate looking "Habanos" (yeah RIGHT) in boxes that fit the proper codes and so on. They are beautifully constructed sticks. But it's in the smoking that you discover..."WHAT the HELL is THAT!!??" I'd love to see what the conclusion is of whoever decides to give one or more of these a chance. I know I would. Best of luck to your friend, but that "Serie P No. 2" is suspect.

[mikek]

From A person who has never had one,if the serial no. checks I guess the next thing would be to do they taste right!

Contact the vendor and ask why it says Series P NO.2 first! Good eye!

[laficion]

Also, those BENLUX price stickers should be on every cigar , not In a bunch In the box plus they don't look the

right color, that Is for me at least.

Cheers,

Guy

[mrsgucia]

Ha, ha Serie P No.2. They use what is available at the time. It is Cuba. It happened to my before they put different ribbons in my Juan Lopez box but I don't think it was fake. Same here.

[CaptainQuintero]

Not having had or owned any GR or R, I would genuinely struggle to pick here, serie P is off but its not a major warning sign, the tax bands again is off but nothing that I haven't seen before either.

Genuinely disturbing, vendor trust and really is essential nowadays.

[Carpenter69]

I don't know enough to comment real or fake, but that is a beautiful box of cigars either way. I think taste will tell. Box is probably an anomaly. Like everyone says, trust your vendor.

[Habana Mike]

Besides the very odd fact that Serie P No. 2 appears - where would that come from? I'm not aware of a box of P2 this size..... I would be concerned the warranty seal is not folded at the center of the shield and there is a question regarding fit and finish.

The stripe on the left of the box does not line up from the lid to the base and it doesn't seem the lid and base are flush. These of course could be normal minor defects.

From the photos it is hard to tell if the embossing and raised lettering are correct. However the "15 Lusitanias/Habana - Cuba" printing on the right end of the bottom box is below center where the ones I've seen are above center. Could be another minor defect.

If fake, it's a very elaborate and well done job except for that issue with the P2 printing inside the lid. The QR code appears it even works as should.

If I found these in a shop though, I'd pass.....

[ATGroom]

I basically had what you guys are saying...

- I queried the tax bands and he told me "this is normal for all the boxes of Gran Reservas that are being distributed by Cubacigar Benelux b.v. This is because they had some complaints with previous Gran Reserva releases where some tax bands caused damage to the cigars." Seems odd, but I don't know enough about Benelux market practice to dispute it.

- I've asked the user to check the micro-printing on seal... yet to hear back, but if it matches then possibly the cardboard box is repurposed

- Inlayed band over the side is doesn't match from top to bottom (could possibly be that the box is slightly open or something and that it's an awkward photo)

- The alignment of the text in the inlayed band is different to some boxes I've seen, which go over the edge halfway through Tobacos, rather than at the end of it (likely variation from box to box)

- The embossing doesn't look right (very likely photo)

- The tone of the number plate looks wrong to me (again, photo)

- The QR is further from the hinge than other boxes I've seen and looks misaligned

- And of course the dealbreaker, Serie P No. 2 printed on the inside of the lid. For everything else I'd buy "Cuba being Cuba," but I don't see how this could happen on a Gran Reserva. If it said "Cohiba Sigo VI Gran Reserva" I'd say, "okay, they just repurposed a surplus box," but I don't see how on the production line making these they picked up the wrong stamp for box 730. That said, in a way it's almost an argument for authenticity, because I also can't see how someone who would go to the trouble of making as high end fakes as these would make such an elementary mistake.

There is definitely room for doubt in my mind, but I'm more inclined toward fake than real, and so advised him to get a refund.

[Ken Gargett]

  On 8/2/2014 at 12:54 AM, ATGroom said:

And of course the dealbreaker, Serie P No. 2 printed on the inside of the lid. For everything else I'd buy "Cuba being Cuba," but I don't see how this could happen on a Gran Reserva. If it said "Cohiba Sigo VI Gran Reserva" I'd say, "okay, they just repurposed a surplus box," but I don't see how on the production line making these they picked up the wrong stamp for box 730. That said, in a way it's almost an argument for authenticity, because I also can't see how someone who would go to the trouble of making as high end fakes as these would make such an elementary mistake.

There is definitely room for doubt in my mind, but I'm more inclined toward fake than real, and so advised him to get a refund.

no idea either way but some curious things. and 'cuba being cuba' is very true. some of the stuff you see! as odd as it might seem, i have no trouble imagining that P2 error. bizarre though.

hell of a lot of trouble to got to for fakes, though.

but re mistakes on high end fakes, you see fake bottles of lafite et al, with bizarre errors.

[HarveyBoulevard]

Just compared my box to your pics. I know my source...wink wink...and EVERYTHING matches except for the P2 imprint inside the lid. Same box code, fonts, everything.

That P2 seems really odd but other than looks great.

[RijkdeGooier]

This is what I see that would concern me slightly:

1. The seal on the actual box in the right top corner looks placed different from my box (the DOP is not visible on the top).

2. The tax seal doesn't have perfect placement on the cardboard box (straight through the shield)

3. The print inside states P2 - mine just states Habana cuba

4. The tax bands are separate from the cigars (my box doesn't have any tax bands - but is from Germany)

5. The code on the tax seal checks out on the HSA website (did the OP check this out; why not?)

Again this is a matter of trust. I know there was some grey import of GR in the Benelux market.

If I had to make a call, I'd say it was a genuine box with some interesting print.

[Grahamsant]

Hmmm...if fake then they are indeed very elaborate fakes! That being said, I wouldn't want to take my chances especially given the cost of one of these boxes!

[DWC]

I'm surprised it has a "Habanos" white diagonal sticker on the dress box. I would have figured it would be like the Behike where all the stickers are on the outside cardboard box. This is normal for the GR? I've never seen one. Way out of my price and class range. ;-}

[Habana Mike]

  On 8/6/2014 at 10:19 PM, DWC said:

I'm surprised it has a "Habanos" white diagonal sticker on the dress box. I would have figured it would be like the Behike where all the stickers are on the outside cardboard box. This is normal for the GR? I've never seen one. Way out of my price and class range. ;-}

It's not actually a sticker but inlayed/embedded in the finish

[canadianbeaver]

I know this is not the same marca, but it is similar in that it is Reserva, and this is from LCDH Amsterdam .

Note some similarities and some differences. First and foremost one I cannot share, the aroma, well let's just say I have to be alone for a bit...

By The way, I voted Real.

[...]

  On 8/6/2014 at 11:40 PM, Habana Mike said:

It's not actually a sticker but inlayed/embedded in the finish

From the second to last picture, you can clearly see it's a sticker, with lower piece removed and having left glue on the box finish, and the top piece slightly lifted off.

The doubt would be nagging me to no end if I couldn't trust my source on a piece like that...

[canadianbeaver]

By the way, the reason the band tags are separate is because the seller only puts them on if he has to. Selling singles is ok, but he would much rather sell the whole box.

[RijkdeGooier]

  On 8/6/2014 at 10:19 PM, DWC said:

I'm surprised it has a "Habanos" white diagonal sticker on the dress box. I would have figured it would be like the Behike where all the stickers are on the outside cardboard box. This is normal for the GR? I've never seen one. Way out of my price and class range. ;-}

It's a sticker but that is normal. It's also on my box.

The code checks out,

The box is a little shabby - P2 print is an interesting error

I suspect this is another case of Cuba being Cuba. I know that there was some grey import in the Benelux

[gurman]

I'm sure, that fakemakers couldn't do such an error!

[Lotusguy]

If I spent that much, there better not be the slightest doubt or "Cuba being Cuba" errors - we're talking about well over $1000 here.

[RijkdeGooier]

I guess we need to know the source, although I already suspect whence it came, to get the full story.