Rookie Advice - Bolivar BBF vs PC

[Ruggerpgh99]

I am pretty new to being really into the Cuban world of cigars, and as I work to build up my collection. I am normally a corona/lonsdale/lancero smoker as my preferred vitolas. I was curious if the experience in the group would recommend the Bolivar BBF over the PC as a box I should have in the tupperdor. Would I be missing anything as far as the full Bolivar experience in the PC that you can only get in the BBF, or do you think I would be happier with my generally preferred vitola? I do appreciate any insight from this forum of experienced smokers. 

Cheers!

[99call]

CC’s in general have changed a little over the last 10yrs, in that they are much more approachable in first year. BBF’s are still the strongest/darkest blend in the bolivar line, but many argue that they are a shadow of their former reputation in being a cigar that could blow the socks off a novice smoker. I, similar to yourself am a fan of old school 42RG cigars, but I still love the BBF’s. BPC’s can be great but if you are really looking for character and and experience I would go for the BBF’s. 

I would argue the best of Bolivar is currently split into two camps. 

Rich Full Bodied, Robust, Savoury: BBF’s, Tubos No 3, Coronas Junior

Rich Mid Bodied, Luxurious, Creamy, Sweet: Libertadors, Tubos No 1

I would argue cigars like PC’s, Royal Coronas etc etc are somewhere between these two worlds...and in my book, less interesting for that reason. But that’s just my opinion. 

[Chibearsv]

4 hours ago, 99call said:

less interesting for that reason.

I agree with basically everything you've said above. I find "less interesting" a bit harsh but maybe that's me taking it that way. My absolute favorite (after a heavy dinner) cigar is BPC. That's because it does fit right in the middle. I can put on the tunes, smoke it slow, and savour it's savoury creamy richness. The "interesting" part to me is just how wonderful they fit after dinner for me.

[joeypots]

I love them both. If you prefer the 42RG cigars the answer is obvious. BPC is probably my favorite PC. 

[99call]

3 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

I agree with basically everything you've said above. I find "less interesting" a bit harsh but maybe that's me taking it that way. My absolute favorite (after a heavy dinner) cigar is BPC. That's because it does fit right in the middle. I can put on the tunes, smoke it slow, and savour it's savoury creamy richness. The "interesting" part to me is just how wonderful they fit after dinner for me.

Yep, I think you’ve very accurately described the Goldilocks appeal. However, I think we arrive at these destinations after many years experimenting. I was always glad people advised me to try things like 898’s BBF’s Fonseca No1’s early on, as A, it gives you a very interesting look at the outer fringes of CC portfolio. And also B, if you don’t happen to like them after a box buy. I think iconic CC’s like BBF’s etc are much easier to move on, than BPC.

 

[Wookie]

I think BPC is richer and maybe fuller than BBF, at least with the 2015-18 boxes I have. Old BBF from late 1990s seemed much stronger and more barn yard to me. 

[Ruggerpgh99]

This feedback has been detailed, impressive and helpful. I may have to just snag whichever one comes up next on 24:24 if I can be fast enough. Most of my purchases are to have 1 after a few months of rest, and the remainder to age and try out over time. I smoke a fair amount of new worlds as well, so I can be stingy with my CC stockpile. 

I really appreciate the though and detail provided by the forum. This place makes me smile. 

[Ford2112]

I wouldn't say the PC is milder than the BBF by any stretch. Last box I had was 21 and it was ruch and full. I like both a lot . Ymmv

[cigaraholic]

I also prefer 42rg cigars, fits my mouth better. But I think you’ll find when you clip a BBF or any pyramid or perfecto you see you have a 42 or very close RG opening. The BBF can certainly be a more complex smoke, strength varies from box to box. There are many here that say there’s nothing better than a BBF and a pint of Guinness.

[BlueWS]

I've had both recently. I have an OCT 23 box of BBFs purchased here and they are not strong. I get a real single medium bodied bready note. It's a real one note cigar imo, but I really enjoy them, especially with an iced coffee on a warm day. I personally prefer the larger cigar. Even the PCs can smoke for a solid 45min to 1hr. I'd go for the BBFs if you're spending money.

[BrightonCorgi]

@Ruggerpgh99 Reading your preference for standard and or slender ring gauge cigars, don't dismiss Bolivar tubos. Aromatic element of cedar works well, and they don't need too long to age to enjoy.

I feel Bolivar is the marca that has fallen furthest from what it was in the Habanos portfolio. Not talking about Special or Regional Edition releases.

Would make for another thread topic. 

[GVan]

I own more Bolivars than any other cuban marca in my collection. I am a fan! As you will note in the responses above, each Bolivar vitola has a different flavor profile, complexity range and smoking experience. I own more BCJ boxes (greater than 3 to 1) because as @Chibearsv says above, it is an absolutely stellar Cuban when you have 45 minutes to an hour and just want the commonly found leather, malt and molasses flavors with a bourbon or cup of coffee after dinner.  I find the BPC more of the same, with an occasional surprising transition, but an hour to an hour and a half cigar. As I stare at the humidor, the only difference in my selection between these two is the time I want to devote to the cigar. By the numbers I smoke about 3 to 4 BCJs to every one BPC.

As a special treat in the smoking rotation, usually in the afternoon or early evening and only when I have an hour and a half to two plus hours to smoke a great cigar, I'll choose the BRC or the BBF. Many, more flavors and much more complexity than the 42 rg cigars. I'm in agreement with @99call above, these are special cigars to me to be savored and focus on the flavors and transitions. I would describe them as more interesting, savory, richer and flavorful. Notice I'm not saying anything about strength - I have a 1998 box of slightly over-filled BPCs that are still resting because they are strength bombs. I smoke about one of these two vitolas approximately once a month.

Early in my collecting, someone on this FOH blog said don't forget about buying Tubos because you'll notice subtle differences. Due to that advice I bought a single box of ULA-MAR-15 Tubo #1's. In my collection these are ranked as very special treats, reserved for only experienced Cuban smokers. Wow, as @Wookie and @BrightonCorgi says above these are very different from any of the other Boli vitolas. My box is stronger, rich, creamy, has a slightly sweet molasses finish and usually a surprise or two in differing flavors. I only have 20 left and these tend to be about a once every 6 month treat in the smoking rotation. While these are now almost 10 years old I get the impression they will last for another 10 years.

Buying and collecting Cubans is a fun journey filled with surprises (and a few disappointments) as you target in on your preferred profiles.

[Ruggerpgh99]

On 1/31/2025 at 10:30 AM, BrightonCorgi said:

@Ruggerpgh99 Reading your preference for standard and or slender ring gauge cigars, don't dismiss Bolivar tubos. Aromatic element of cedar works well, and they don't need too long to age to enjoy.

I feel Bolivar is the marca that has fallen furthest from what it was in the Habanos portfolio. Not talking about Special or Regional Edition releases.

Would make for another thread topic. 

I don't think I have seen the tubos at all on 24:24, or even any of the other reputable vendors. If I could find them I would love to snag a box. 

[Ruggerpgh99]

@GVan,

Thank you, and the rest of the forum for all of this detail. It is so helpful for me as I work to build up a collection and rotation. I will definitely try to keep an eye out for BCJ and Tubos as well. I know supply is a challenge, but I do have some international trips planned this year, so hopefully I can get myself a sampling of all of the bolivar lineup as I travel. 

[JohnS]

On 2/1/2025 at 2:20 AM, Ruggerpgh99 said:

I don't think I have seen the tubos at all on 24:24, or even any of the other reputable vendors. If I could find them I would love to snag a box. 

Only the Bolivar Tubos No.2 is still in production. The Bolivar Tubos No.1 was discontinued in 2017. The smaller Bolivar Tubos No.3 was discontinued in 2019, but still around until 2022, no doubt because Habanos S.A. had a stockpile and they weren't a huge seller by any means. It doesn't mean they weren't any good.

Ever since the production and supply of habanos cigars was rationalised by Habanos S.A. in mid-2022, a great number of less well-known cigars (perhaps such as the Bolivar Tubos No.2) were put into hiatus. Some have reappeared (such as the La Gloria Cubana Medaille d'Or No.4) and others are beginning to stockpile because price changes have effectively 'killed' their market (such as the Montecristo No.4). But that's another story, of course.

[Tunkat92]

Personally I couldn’t replace BBF’s with BPC’s. They are quite different cigars. If I could only get one box, I would choose the BPC’s because I think they are a better value. The BCJ is also a fantastic cigar that is very similar to the BPC.

[DaBoot]

BPC is great when you want a cigar. The most consistent quality from Cubans over the years for me. But a BBF... a cigar to be savored and appreciated. It just hits in a different class.

[Ruggerpgh99]

On 2/1/2025 at 3:30 PM, JohnS said:

Only the Bolivar Tubos No.2 is still in production. The Bolivar Tubos No.1 was discontinued in 2017. The smaller Bolivar Tubos No.3 was discontinued in 2019, but still around until 2022, no doubt because Habanos S.A. had a stockpile and they weren't a huge seller by any means. It doesn't mean they weren't any good.

I would love to see the Corona Junior or Tubos No. 2 on 24:24 this year, and then pray I log in on time and can snag a box. But you can bet the next time I see the PC, or BBF, I will be trying my darndest to get one of those.