Cyber truck.

[Mr. Esposito]

I've started seeing these driving around town already. Insane first time you see it coming up in your side view mirror. 

https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck

Totally reasonable investment if you ask me. 

[MrBirdman]

Many, if not most, pickup trucks in America are owned by people who have no real need for them. They’re a lifestyle symbol for those people. So these fit right in I guess. I highly doubt you’ll see many contractors show up to a job site in one of these. 

I will say though, if you’re going to drive a pickup for no reason other than to project an image, I’d prefer you minimize damage to the environment while doing so.

Personally, I think it’s hideous. But to each his own!

[Corylax18]

1 hour ago, Mr. Esposito said:

I've started seeing these driving around town already. Insane first time you see it coming up in your side view mirror. 

https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck

Totally reasonable investment if you ask me. 

In San Francisco? They "delivered" the first handful of "production" models to "customers" at an event earlier this week, just a couple days ago. Those drivers would have had to High Tail it from the event in Austin, Texas. Are you sure you aren't confusing them with Rivian's R1T? They've been actually available for the last year +.

They wont be available in any real quantity until the 2nd half of next year, at the very earliest. At least 3 years later than the stated delivery dates at release and more than 50% more expensive than the stated release prices from 2019.

Tesla has completely missed the boat on this. Ford, GM and Rivian have all released superior products in the years the Tesla has floundered. And those superior products are far inferior to gas/diesel trucks at this point, keep in mind that none of these electric "trucks" can actually be used as trucks. As soon as you start hauling real weight, or god forbid, tow something, the ranges fall off a cliff. That "250 mile range might be 75 or 80 when towing at the stated capacity. Ford will be on their 2nd generation lightning by the time Tesla says they are going to release their rear wheel drive model. Ford is estimating a range nearly double the Tesla's range by 2025. 

The Tesla Semi has already been exposed as a complete Fraud, just like the Nikola Semi. By the time you account for the 60-65,000 LB Cab and all its battery weight, the usable load is around 15,0000 Lbs, or less than half what a Diesel powered Rig can haul. There is absolutely ZERO business case for them today. 

Will all new vehicles be electrified in the next 25-30 years? Almost Certainly. But the battery technology of today simply doesn't allow for them to be consistently better than ICE powered vehicles. 

[MrBirdman]

37 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

And those superior products are far inferior to gas/diesel trucks at this point, keep in mind that none of these electric "trucks" can actually be used as trucks.

Completely agree, though as I alluded to above that’s irrelevant to a lot of truck buyers in the US. I find this segment rather irritating given how much extra gas trucks guzzle for people who would be equally well served by a small SUV or, god forbid, a station wagon (which have been driven to extinction in the US by the rise of SUVs).

So if someone is gonna buy a truck they have no need for, I’d prefer they buy an EV version. Though I can’t see why one would select the Tesla version over the competition, which seem superior in many respects and don’t look like a concept car from 30 years ago. 

[targa88]

2 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Will all new vehicles be electrified in the next 25-30 years? Almost Certainly. But the battery technology of today simply doesn't allow for them to be consistently better than ICE powered vehicles. 

Where this will go and/or improve is a subject for debate. Particularly as it applies to battery technology.

A couple of issues in the current spectrum:

Range as a function of temperature and elevation. In the winter time here. Those two will drop range by 50%. Maybe not so much in TX or CA....

Battery material is flammable. Insurance companies in several areas will not insure your vehicle if it is kept inside a garage while being charged...

 

[Corylax18]

18 minutes ago, targa88 said:

Where this will go and/or improve is a subject for debate. Particularly as it applies to battery technology.

 

Is it? Tesla uses battery technology that's roughly 30-40 years old. The packs are made from several thousand 18650 batteries wired together. (batteries slightly larger than AAs) Panasonic has been manufacturing the same cells for decades, for use in personal electronics. Most current EV/Hybrid Vehicles contain batteries of much the same concept. Because they are relatively fast and easy to produce in large quantities using existing technology. The recent breakthroughs in EVs haven't come from new inventions, but from new manufacturing techniques that make them financially viable on a large scale. Lithium Ion batteries are not the future for EVs or large scale/grid level BESS. Due to both their low energy density and the fact the Lithium production will never (and should never) catch up to the volumes we'll need. However, we have come leaps and bounds in the last decade or so learning about Solid State and other types of battery chemistries. Batteries with power density high enough to compete with ICE engines have already been Invented, tested and proved out. The part that still needs to be figured out is how to produce them at the quantity and price to make them competitive. Its not an "If" question anymore, its a "when" question. 

27 minutes ago, targa88 said:

Range as a function of temperature and elevation. In the winter time here. Those two will drop range by 50%. Maybe not so much in TX or CA....

I've never once heard anyone mention altitude affecting battery capacity (there are experimental battery powered airplanes flying today) let alone any science indicating its an issue. 

You are 100% correct about temperature though. Both High and Low temps affect battery range. And just like ICE powered vehicles, running your heater or AC reduces the range even further. Solid State batteries and some other newer battery chemistries are less affected by temperature, but I don't see this issue ever disappearing completely. 

31 minutes ago, targa88 said:

Battery material is flammable. Insurance companies in several areas will not insure your vehicle if it is kept inside a garage while being charged...

So is Gasoline. Insurance adjuster have gotten comfortable with people storing huge bombs in their garage(my f150 has a 36 gallon gas tank) and they will get comfortable with battery powered vehicles as well. Insurance adjusters hate the unknown, an area that EVs still occupy, but that too will change as more info is gathered on more and more vehicles.  

[SCgarman]

😎

[BrightonCorgi]

There's a big market for high end pickups.  The Cyber Truck will have a larger global appeal than F150, Denali, etc electric pickups will ever.  Rivians are selling pretty well in my area.  The Amazon contract ain't hurting them either. 

Ford, Rivian, GM and Cyber Truck arrive for valet.  Who gets the front spot?

[JohnnyO]

Cory...EVs experience a 5% drop in range for every 1000 foot increase, they also require more energy to go uphill than on flat ground. Just picture an EV going up to the Arapahoe Basin. John

[Corylax18]

3 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

There's a big market for high end pickups.  The Cyber Truck will have a larger global appeal than F150, Denali, etc electric pickups will ever.  Rivians are selling pretty well in my area.  The Amazon contract ain't hurting them either. 

Ford, Rivian, GM and Cyber Truck arrive for valet.  Who gets the front spot?

Haha. What? I'm sorry, but that statement has absolutely Zero basis in reality. The "show off" market will be won by Tesla, that's already been covered, no argument there. But that high end market is still a tiny fraction of the total truck market. The pandemic skewed the $'s per transaction higher, but that was a supply issue, not demand. All car manufacturers knew they could produce a limited number of Vehicles the last few years, so they prioritized their most expensive vehicles to limit to hit to their overall revenue. 

Ford sells more F150s in a quarter than Tesla does in a year. Tesla has sold roughly 4.5 million cars in its entire history, of all of its models, combined. Ford has sold more than 40 million F150s. Throw in F250s, 350s, and 450s and that number pushes over 60 million. Tesla has "delivered" less than 6 Cyber trucks, ever. We can talk "appeal" all day, but both the supply and demand for F150s is at least an order of magnitude greater than that of all Tesla's ever produced. And Tesla isn't even on a path to catchup. 

3 hours ago, JohnnyO said:

they also require more energy to go uphill than on flat ground.

Yes, just like ICE vehicles do. That's not an EV issue, that's a simple physics problem. But EV's have a HUGE advantage if you ever plan on heading back down the hill. Most EVs have regenerative braking, which recharges the battery. In identical scenarios and EV will still outperform an ICE powered vehicle in the mountains. If you're smart about how you drive, you might even get greater range in mountainous terrain. 

3 hours ago, JohnnyO said:

EVs experience a 5% drop in range for every 1000 foot increase

I see that's the first thing that pops up when you google "EV range affected by altitude" but as I said above, it doesn't have any basis in science. If all other variables remain constant (temp, grade, humidity, etc) EVs have the same range at 5000 feet as they do at Zero feet, or in death valley at -284 feet. I copied an excerpt and the article it came from below regarding EV range at altitude:

EVs don't require oxygen to get moving like an ICE would. Usually, the battery supplies electricity to the motor, where a magnetic field is generated that, in turn, makes the motor move and produce power. This is an oversimplification, but it's important to note that oxygen isn't required for any of these processes to occur. So, electric cars will work the same at high altitude as they do at sea level, while cars with ICEs will lose power.

https://www.makeuseof.com/electric-vs-internal-combustion-high-altitude-driving/

[BoliDan]

If I was a truck guy, I'd at least like the option to use it like a truck. But that's a pretty cheap price for a truck, and probably a selling point. The only reason I would get a truck is because having a higher perspective of the road is advantageous, but I'll stick with my $20k economy cars. Also, I hate not having control, so a lot of Tesla's features are a negative for me. I coast with my foot off the break (Tesla automatically breaks it you do this). I tried to do the auto drive and it nearly gave me a heart attack not controlling the speed or steering.

[Dr vonPuffenberg]

I am absolutely in love with the thing.

[Salomones]

Reasons of safety will not allow us to drive this in Germany, and maybe the whole of Europe.

 

[RDB]

I love it when one person on a thread actually knows what they are talking about. Keep at it though! 🍿

[BrightonCorgi]

12 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Haha. What? I'm sorry, but that statement has absolutely Zero basis in reality. The "show off" market will be won by Tesla, that's already been covered, no argument there. But that high end market is still a tiny fraction of the total truck market. The pandemic skewed the $'s per transaction higher, but that was a supply issue, not demand. All car manufacturers knew they could produce a limited number of Vehicles the last few years, so they prioritized their most expensive vehicles to limit to hit to their overall revenue. 

Ford sells more F150s in a quarter than Tesla does in a year. Tesla has sold roughly 4.5 million cars in its entire history, of all of its models, combined. Ford has sold more than 40 million F150s. Throw in F250s, 350s, and 450s and that number pushes over 60 million. Tesla has "delivered" less than 6 Cyber trucks, ever. We can talk "appeal" all day, but both the supply and demand for F150s is at least an order of magnitude greater than that of all Tesla's ever produced. And Tesla isn't even on a path to catchup. 

 

Pickup's market is primarily North America.  The Cyber truck will be hot globally.  Ford builds better cars than Tesla and F150 is a more serious work vehicle without a doubt. 

You think the Cyber Truck will be parked aside for an F150 at valet?

[Rushman]

I’m not in love with the styling. I’ve had a pickup in my driveway or garage for a very long time - before you ask no I’m not a contractor but I am a diy’er - but this one is not for me. I would go Ford Lightening way before this.



rushman

[Chibearsv]

The Tesla seems very similar to the Hummer of its day.. it might turn heads in Chicago or the suburbs as something of status, but in farm country, I think it would only turn heads in disgust.  My brother in law drives a RAM TRX which is a farmer's status symbol vehicle in central Illinois. It might not ever do any work around the farm, but in theory, it could.  😁

[BrightonCorgi]

6 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

The Tesla seems very similar to the Hummer of its day..

Teslas are quite cliche like a Hummer was or more recently a Prius is. Definitely a sign of the times along with the person driving it.

[MrBirdman]

2 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Tesla's are quite cliche like a Hummer was or more recently a Prius is.  Definitely a sign of the times along with the person driving it.

Interesting comparison. Noteworthy that the Hummer was killed off more by gas prices (remember 2007?) than fashion. In a sense they’ve returned with new branding (I saw a new Escalade recently that looked the size of a Brinks truck). 

Are the kind of people who want a Tesla interested in a truck? I guess we’ll find out. I just can’t get over the styling. It’s like a dodgy poser of “future chic.”

[BrightonCorgi]

2 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

Interesting comparison. Noteworthy that the Hummer was killed off more by gas prices (remember 2007?) than fashion. In a sense they’ve returned with new branding (I saw a new Escalade recently that looked the size of a Brinks truck). 

Are the kind of people who want a Tesla interested in a truck? I guess we’ll find out. I just can’t get over the styling. It’s like a dodgy poser of “future chic.”

The H3 was the death blow for Hummer.  The styling and purpose became too watered down and cache of owning Hummer was no longer there. Plenty of other gas guzzling SUVs weathered the storm both domestic and foreign marques. 

The new electric Hummer is exactly what the brand needed. I was in traffic along one and it's quite striking. I thought it was a Rivian at first. 

The Cyber Truck will be hot for a bit and then Tesla will promote a new off the wall vehicle is my guess. Hopefully the platform they build for the Cyber Truck on can be used for all sorts of sound and zany ideas.

[MrBirdman]

1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said:

The H3 was the death blow for Hummer.  The styling and purpose became too watered down and cache of owning Hummer was no longer there. Plenty of other gas guzzling SUVs weathered the storm both domestic and foreign marques. 

The new electric Hummer is exactly what the brand needed. I was in traffic along one and it's quite striking. I thought it was a Rivian at first. 

The Cyber Truck will be hot for a bit and then Tesla will promote a new off the wall vehicle is my guess. Hopefully the platform they build for the Cyber Truck on can be used for all sorts of sound and zany ideas.

I meant that the brands identity was so tied up with their ostentatious size that rising gas prices played a big role in tarnished its cache. Also, IIRC the H2 had poor gas mileage even by 2000’s large-SUV standards. And yes the H3, their attempt at a more efficient car to reinvigorate the brand, was hideous. 

[Boss Hog]

On 12/2/2023 at 10:41 AM, MrBirdman said:

Personally, I think it’s hideous.

You and me both, my fellow brother.

[Nevrknow]

On 12/3/2023 at 10:03 AM, BrightonCorgi said:

There's a big market for high end pickups.  The Cyber Truck will have a larger global appeal than F150, Denali, etc electric pickups will ever.  Rivians are selling pretty well in my area.  The Amazon contract ain't hurting them either. 

Ford, Rivian, GM and Cyber Truck arrive for valet.  Who gets the front spot?

2002 F250. it " MAY " be customized. A tad.Right beside the Bentley. 😁

Depends on where and WHO you are. 😉

 

12 hours ago, Boss Hog said:

You and me both, my fellow brother.

Exactly! Just how do I transport a race motor in the back of that thing?  Will it even haul the weight? 🤣

[helix]

The future of the EV will be a Hydrogen fuel . Lithium batteries will play a diminishing roll.

[SMELTZ]

1 hour ago, helix said:

The future of the EV will be a Hydrogen fuel . Lithium batteries will play a diminishing roll.

Porsche is coming out with their new EV using solid state batteries that go 800 miles before a charge and charge from 0 to 100% in less than 10 minutes. Solid State batteries will be the future of EV’s.