Jerryvonkramer Posted July 9, 2023 Posted July 9, 2023 Just wondering out loud really. There’s the Gordito (eg, Hoyo Especial), the Hermoso No 4 (ERDM Choix), the Canonazo (Siglo VI), the Nobelza (Ramone Allones No 3), the Magnum 50 (Upmann), but I’ve never seen a Cuban Toro in the standard US market dimensions. Is this some weird mark of Cuban pride not to be led by the NC market? 1
Glass Half Full Posted July 9, 2023 Posted July 9, 2023 Perhaps I'm wrong, but I've tended to consider the Montesco (5 1/8th x 55) to be akin to many NC Toros (granted NC Toros are often longer). In my (limited) NC experience, the word Toro seems to apply to a range of sizes. For example, Davidoff's Nicaraguan Toro is 5 1/2" x 54 yet their Masters Selection Toros are 6" x 52 (which is pretty darn close to a Cuban Cañanazo). Fuente has a variety of Toros that measure 6 3/4" in length but their RG varies between 48, 49 and 50. No doubt others will have more far ranging examples. I just don't know NC's as well. 2
Popular Post MrBirdman Posted July 9, 2023 Popular Post Posted July 9, 2023 NC producers have that market just about saturated - seems like every third release is a 6x50. Cohiba Novedosos is basically a NC toro, but of course those are what I’d call a Habanos “RINO” (Release in Name Only). 6
JoeyBones777 Posted July 9, 2023 Posted July 9, 2023 That is the thing about NC's, they don't have a rhyme or reason for what they call a particular size. In my experience, NC toros tend to hover around 6x50. The mag 50 and epi especial to me are toros. 1
El Presidente Posted July 9, 2023 Posted July 9, 2023 10 hours ago, JoeyBones777 said: That is the thing about NC's, they don't have a rhyme or reason for what they call a particular size. In my experience, NC toros tend to hover around 6x50. The mag 50 and epi especial to me are toros. My understanding is even NC Toro can vary slightly. 50-54 gauge. No 1 selling format in the USA. You need to have one in your line up. 3
SCgarman Posted July 9, 2023 Posted July 9, 2023 6 hours ago, JoeyBones777 said: That is the thing about NC's, they don't have a rhyme or reason for what they call a particular size. In my experience, NC toros tend to hover around 6x50. The mag 50 and epi especial to me are toros. Magnum50, Trini Robusto Extra, Monte Edmundo, would qualify as a "Toro". Surely others. Not a size I typically smoke. The Nudie Canonazo is 90 minutes of delight, I do make exceptions. 4
Ford2112 Posted July 9, 2023 Posted July 9, 2023 Funny Toro being the #1 selling vitola here in the States. It's my least favorite size. 3
cgoodrich Posted July 9, 2023 Posted July 9, 2023 That’s a great question/discussion point @Jerryvonkramer. Since I started smoking cigars in the early 90’s there has always been a Toro sizing salad in the NC world; ring gage and length differences just as described above by others. When I found Cuban Cigar Website (thank you @ATGroom!), I found the gallery names of cigars. I loved that Cubans had this list, and wish they would use those names more frequently. If I were to start my own line of cigars, I would use this list as the name for a cigar that matched the RG/length. 2
Andy04 Posted July 9, 2023 Posted July 9, 2023 9 hours ago, Jerryvonkramer said: Just wondering out loud really. There’s the Gordito (eg, Hoyo Especial), the Hermoso No 4 (ERDM Choix), the Canonazo (Siglo VI), the Nobelza (Ramone Allones No 3), the Magnum 50 (Upmann), but I’ve never seen a Cuban Toro in the standard US market dimensions. Is this some weird mark of Cuban pride not to be led by the NC market? 1) HSA leads the cigar market, theme they don't follow trends. NC's are always chasing HSA names, references and flavor profiles. 2) Why would HSA worry about US market dimensions? HSA's biggest market is China. They have done numerous products aligned to Chinese New Year, Zodiac's and auspicious numbers. 1
El Presidente Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 44 minutes ago, Andy04 said: 1) HSA leads the cigar market, theme they don't follow trends. NC's are always chasing HSA names, references and flavor profiles. 2) Why would HSA worry about US market dimensions? HSA's biggest market is China. They have done numerous products aligned to Chinese New Year, Zodiac's and auspicious numbers. On Point 1, HSA/Altadis have been very carefully following the US market since 2000. Natural, given Altadis USA stature in the US cigar market. LE's, Fancy packaging, larger gauges etc. On Point 2. They don't need to worry about US market dimnensions. Their supply shortfalls and pricing changes have seen them eliminate/alienate a large % of their online US customer base. They were simply replaced with a brutal mix of "next man up" and wholesale penetration into expanding China market.
fokker4me Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Ford2112 said: Funny Toro being the #1 selling vitola here in the States. It's my least favorite size. Couldn't agree more. The only manufacturer with consistency in sizing of Toro seems to be the cigars that are made by my father and all the subsequent brands that they make for.
Popular Post JohnS Posted July 10, 2023 Popular Post Posted July 10, 2023 'Toro' is indeed an American term, not a Habanos one. I remember Trevor discussing it in his research during the development of Cuban Cigar Website, when I interviewed him about it (i.e. CCW). 7
joeypots Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 Monte Cristo Double Edmundo. It’s a double robusto, 50 X 6 ⅛", a stellar cigar. I used to think like an American that 6X50 was the perfect cigar size. I don’t think there is a perfect size now but I’d still opt for the corona gorda, 46 X 5 ⅝" as the vitola I’d pick if I had to pick one. 1
BrightonCorgi Posted July 10, 2023 Posted July 10, 2023 10 hours ago, JohnS said: 'Toro' is indeed an American term, not a Habanos one. I remember Trevor discussing it in his research during the development of Cuban Cigar Website, when I interviewed him about it (i.e. CCW). American cigar marketing has generalized many vitola sizes. Even Lancero, Churchill, Robusto have no explicit size specifications with NC. They're not widely apart, but hardly the Habanos spec 100% 2
JohnnyO Posted July 11, 2023 Posted July 11, 2023 TTT: La Trova, Esmeralda, Robusto Extra, 40 Aniversario, Cabildos fall in the RE category but didn't produce enough of them. John
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