EAR: Why have Churchills fallen out of favor? Where did it all go awry?

[El Presidente]

EAR= Email assistance required. 

 

Over to you good people. You are the consumer. 

"I'm seeking assistance to comprehend the current situation surrounding Churchills. Back in the 90s, I enjoyed smoking Hoyo, SLR, Punch, and R&J Churchills, along with QD, Cohiba Esp, and Bolivar, all stored in my humidor. Nowadays, I'm unable to locate any CC Churchills anywhere. I recall reading a post of yours mentioning that even in the non-Cuban cigar world, the Churchill vitola is the least popular. Is that accurate? I'm just trying to understand why Churchills are gradually disappearing. While some attribute it to the scarcity of CC wrapper, the decline of Churchills predates recent issues. I've heard that people claim to lack time, yet Double Robustos seem to be unaffected and sell like hotcakes. Where did it all go awry?"

[DaBoot]

Bigger is better…

[Chibearsv]

I’m hoping it’s all just a terrible nightmare that I’ll wake from.  With tupperdores full of Churchills, DC, 109, and Lonsdales. 

[Rhinoww]

Still a race for me between DC and Churchill for personal favorite. 
 

as I understand it, rolling takes more skill for longer cigars as well as bigger wrappers. Those are two things cuba is short on rn. Also these don’t fit well into new marketing approach so I wouldn’t bet much on a change. Unless they put out an SLR special edition with four bands😂

[Ford2112]

I think people are just into instant gratification and are in a hurry. I blame cell phones . My favorite sizes are lonsdales,lanceros,corona/grand corona,and churchills. Not these stupid jaw breakers that I see all the internet cigar superstars touting on Instagram

[BoliDan]

First the lancero then the Lonsdale, now the Churchill. I'm trying to embrace our new robusto overlords, but I cannot when it comes with this cost.

☹️

[MrBirdman]

Churchills are practically skinnies by NC standards. Most NC smokers want 50 rg minumum, apparently.

I think the times and places most people smoke have changed a lot since the advent of anti-smoking laws. There aren’t as many opportunities to smoke cigars over 6 inches, however much one might enjoy them (I prefer longer formats but 6 inch and under sticks are most of what I actually smoke by volume). The times when people could smoke at work or around town are long gone.

As for Cuba, I think this probably boils down to their difficulty producing enough large wrapper leaf. It’s easy to dc cigars of modest popularity when you can use those big wrappers on gaudy special editions with a far higher return. 

[Bagman]

Churchill is the least popular size?  Would love to see stats on that.     Plenty of churchill choices in the NC world.  I buy many.  Pretty much all my nc's are churchill sized.

[BrightonCorgi]

Would love to see a value churchill like the Monarch be offered again.  Well how about a value anything in a decent size?  I don't think I'll have an opportunity to buy any Habanos churchill's if the last year has been any indication.  Between online, Spain & Switzerland; not a box of Habanos churchill's to be found this year for me.

[SCgarman]

40 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Would love to see a value churchill like the Monarch be offered again.  Well how about a value anything in a decent size?  I don't think I'll have an opportunity to buy any Habanos churchill's if the last year has been any indication.  Between online, Spain & Switzerland; not a box of Habanos churchill's to be found this year for me.

That's because Michael Jordan bought every single box of Churchills on the planet. When you are a billionaire anything is obtainable. 

[Çnote]

I think it's instant gratification and a short attention span.

At my previous venue selling NC, I doubled sales by focusing on stocking <5' cigars and virtually eliminating Churchill. At my current venue, the biggest sellers are around 4'.

I still get requests for Churchills and DC, but I limit stock to brands that sell regardless of size.

I personally love Churchill and DC, but rarely find the time to smoke them. Anything that takes more than a hour is a once a week pleasure, with some planning I can fit 2 Robusto a day.

Added: I also think DC and Lancero are pushed by the 'Connoisseur' element of the cigar industry, often subtly. Saka's Paladin and #NLMTHA come to mind. Super consumers want the best, the experience of lancero and DC is the best, so get the best. Churchill just needs marketing. It probably doesn't help that Churchill and Lonsdale are named for deceased British politicians either.

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, Monterey said:

Churchill is the least popular size?  Would love to see stats on that.     Plenty of churchill choices in the NC world.  I buy many.  Pretty much all my nc's are churchill sized.

Some excellent NC Churchills indeed. 

Talk to any NC manufacturer however, and the slowest selling horse in their stable is a Churchill. The fastest? Almost always the Toro.  Talk to US retailers and it is a consistent experience. You have to have a Toro or similar and it will generally fly in the line. 

Cody and Phil can chime in as they are at the coalface. 

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

9 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Talk to any NC manufacturer however, and the slowest selling horse in their stable is a Churchill.

I would imagine CC vendors would concur. How much BCG, HU Monarcas, QdO Imperiales, Punch Churchills, SPCG and Hoyo Churchills were you moving relative to the other models back in the day?

I will point out that certain Churchills still have quite a bit of life. Esplendidos, SW and RyJ Churchils still fly off the shelf, although I don't know if supply wasn't limited how many of those would sell relative to the other models. 

[SCgarman]

59 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Some excellent NC Churchills indeed. 

Talk to any NC manufacturer however, and the slowest selling horse in their stable is a Churchill. The fastest? Almost always the Toro.  Talk to US retailers and it is a consistent experience. You have to have a Toro or similar and it will generally fly in the line. 

Cody and Phil can chime in as they are at the coalface. 

 

 

Toro as in 6 in x 50 ring gauge?

[El Presidente]

4 hours ago, SCgarman said:

Toro as in 6 in x 50 ring gauge?

Varies in NC world between 50 and 54 gauge

[BrightonCorgi]

8 hours ago, Çnote said:

Added: I also think DC and Lancero are pushed by the 'Connoisseur' element of the cigar industry, often subtly. Saka's Paladin and #NLMTHA come to mind. Super consumers want the best, the experience of lancero and DC is the best, so get the best. Churchill just needs marketing. It probably doesn't help that Churchill and Lonsdale are named for deceased British politicians either.

Spending two hours to smoke a single cigar is what has to be advocated & advertised to the consumer.  Turning off the phone to be in the moment with a churchill almost needs explaining.  Outside of "being outside", a lot of cigar consumers don't have handy spot to smoke such a cigar.  Cigar bars come at a cost and one has to travel.

[Silverstix]

Don't know about production numbers, but as far as consumption goes, I think it's a time thing.  The world is just different now and especially not being able to smoke indoors in many places, carving out 2+ hours to sit outside and smoke a cigar is tough to pull off for a lot of people.  Myself included.  It's the primary reason I don't smoke them more.  I'm lucky if I can get an hour at night to myself once or twice a week to smoke a PC or a robusto.  

[Cigar Surgeon]

It's primarily the US market (NC and CC) that's driving the larger ring gauge trend and it's been that way for a long time now.

My issue is with the NC industry releasing vitola sizes is that they are out of spec.  A Churchill vitola is 7" x 47 RG.  Decades ago it creeped to the standard of 7x48 and today you'd be hard pressed to find a Churchill thinner than a 7x50 and in some cases 7x52.

The 'vitola naming council' does not approve.

[rabidraccoon]

I won't speculate on the market in general, but personally I love Churchills because of the way I smoke. I don't smoke during the day or throughout the day. I like to sit down at the end of the day when all my tasks and work are done and enjoy 1 cigar for 1.5-2 hours so the Churchill vitola is great for me. If I went with a robusto I would probably have to have 2 of them which I don't like to do back-to-back because I just can't get the same flavor out of the 2nd one.

[Çnote]

10 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Cody and Phil can chime in as they are at the coalface. 

I chimed in, but will emphasize, shorter sells faster, at least in my venue where 90% is consumed on-premise. Anything over 5' and I'm guaranteed to find 2' or more in the ashtray, but that's a lot of social small group dynamics in play as well...most of my clientele is at the end of a date when smoking, so there are other considerations when thinking about finishing the nub. We get alot of casual smokers as well, so a 30m smoke is more realistic that a 90m smoke.

 

4 hours ago, El Presidente said:

9 hours ago, SCgarman said:

Toro as in 6 in x 50 ring gauge?

Varies in NC world between 50 and 54 gauge

6x60 is taking over as the 'Toro' of choice amongst a vocal set. People love numbers, you can't argue with them.

[Doctorossi]

My love has never waned.  🤷‍♂️

[GVan]

It's still one of my favorite sizes - probably because I've read several of Churchill's biographies! Love the part where he put a straightened paper-clip in his cigars to let the ash go long in meetings and distract others (hope that one's true).   A seriously flawed individual with a tremendously outdated belief system (how many people does that sound like nowadays) that rose to greatness when his country needed him.  I get that these don't sell as well as other sizes.  I looked at my collection's numbers: ~ 23 different sizes in the collection of CC's and NC's with only 6% being Churchills.  If I think back to when I last smoked these, it was only when I had ~ 2 hrs in a B&M in Maryland talking with the guys, in the hot tub on a beautiful evening with my two sons drinking, smoking and talking or it's mostly on the golf course where they last for ~ 13 holes (we play in < 3.5 hours).  I generally only smoke while playing golf when it's an evening round with no betting or I'm playing terrible and looking to change something - anything!  If I'm smoking on the club porch after the round with the guys it's still nothing more than a corona as almost no one sticks around for more than an hour.

Interestingly, I would argue that's it's also now about price as well as time.  Who wants to leave a Partagas Lusitania only ¾ smoked because the wife asked me to do something.  Nothing worse than setting down a half-smoked Churchill (or any large size) and then not being able to finish it!

[Chibearsv]

13 hours ago, Monterey said:

Pretty much all my nc's are churchill sized.

Curious: what are a couple of your favorites?  I haven't found an NC Churchill yet that could hold my attention from beginning to end.  An Espy or SW on the other hand, I'll burn my fingers to get them nubbed.

[GVan]

10 minutes ago, Chibearsv said:

Curious: what are a couple of your favorites?  I haven't found an NC Churchill yet that could hold my attention from beginning to end.  An Espy or SW on the other hand, I'll burn my fingers to get them nubbed.

Aging Room Quattro - Churchill size 7" x 50 - I think is called a Concerto.  These are chocolate bombs, little to no pepper but my box date is 10/16/18 and these are my favorite right now.

Ashton VSG Sorcerer - 7" x 49 - I love VSG's but they need to rest like CC's for ~ 3 to 5 years (I've had some reach 15 years and still be awesome) to reach an acceptable "no pepper overload" for me.  My last box is from '21 and still haven't touched them as they age in the coolidor with the CC's.

Illusione Haut 10 - 6.75 x 48 - more like a short Churchill.  Mine are from 8/4/21 and are getting better every time I smoke one.  My last note said give them another 3 to 6 months.

I tend to treat my NC collection just like my CC collection.  Although NC's only get bought when I get a good review from a mate as well as a great sale price.  The aging room quattro's were bought around the time when Halfwheel named the "Maestro" torpedo size their cigar of the year.  Got a great price ($6.70 / stick) on the Churchill's instead as everyone wanted the torpedo.   I pretty much age everything for at least some period of time until I think they've reached their peak flavor.  Even minuto NC's get about 3 to 6 months before their first tasting.

[Çnote]

46 minutes ago, GVan said:

Aging Room Quattro - Churchill size 7" x 50 - I think is called a Concerto.  These are chocolate bombs, little to no pepper but my box date is 10/16/18 and these are my favorite right now.

Ashton VSG Sorcerer - 7" x 49 - I love VSG's but they need to rest like CC's for ~ 3 to 5 years (I've had some reach 15 years and still be awesome) to reach an acceptable "no pepper overload" for me.  My last box is from '21 and still haven't touched them as they age in the coolidor with the CC's.

Illusione Haut 10 - 6.75 x 48 - more like a short Churchill.  Mine are from 8/4/21 and are getting better every time I smoke one.  My last note said give them another 3 to 6 months.

I tend to treat my NC collection just like my CC collection.  Although NC's only get bought when I get a good review from a mate as well as a great sale price.  The aging room quattro's were bought around the time when Halfwheel named the "Maestro" torpedo size their cigar of the year.  Got a great price ($6.70 / stick) on the Churchill's instead as everyone wanted the torpedo.   I pretty much age everything for at least some period of time until I think they've reached their peak flavor.  Even minuto NC's get about 3 to 6 months before their first tasting.

These are all fabulous. I'd add the Fuente Dbl Chateau and KingT with about a year of aging. And buying the non-trendy size at crazy discount? Savvy 👏