By 2030......will 60 + ring gauges be the norm?

[Chibearsv]

Ok, a question for all of you guys that would say "I'm against it" for 50+ cigars. 

Have you never had a QdO 54 or Partagas E2 that you found enjoyable or have you not tried them?  I think there is a mildness that tends to come with the larger ring gauges that I enjoy as long as there's enough flavor to compensate. 

I think E2 is a great example of a very tasty cigar with a larger ring gauge.  I'm just curious if you disagree with that statement.  I'd like to know if it's a palate thing, or a comfort thing, or a stubborn thing. 

[Corylax18]

15 minutes ago, Chibearsv said:

Ok, a question for all of you guys that would say "I'm against it" for 50+ cigars. 

Have you never had a QdO 54 or Partagas E2 that you found enjoyable or have you not tried them?  I think there is a mildness that tends to come with the larger ring gauges that I enjoy as long as there's enough flavor to compensate. 

I think E2 is a great example of a very tasty cigar with a larger ring gauge.  I'm just curious if you disagree with that statement.  I'd like to know if it's a palate thing, or a comfort thing, or a stubborn thing. 

I've smoked and enjoyed both. El Laguito E2 are a treat. Ive also Smoked and enjoyed much larger cigars in the 58-60 range. I've also smoked 33, 38, 40, 42 RG cigars that where just as tasty, didn't make my jaw ache, and didnt cost an arm and a leg. OK, some bigger rg cigars are fine, but I need more than "Just Because."

That "mildness" you're referencing is just the extra Volado required to ensure something that big burns, I agree with your pallet on this. But, Its my main gripe, not an attractive feature to me. HSA has taken great cigars, in great formats, and watered them down. While "going premium" with the packaging and charging us more in the process. No Thanks.

There is certainly a place for cigars larger than 50rg, but there are far too many of them on the market right now. What's the difference between the wonderful(and discontinued) HUPC and the "NEW" HUHC? Volado. Its the clearest example, to me, of Cuba changing its portfolio to match the leaf they can produce. I'll slowly smoke through the remaining PC's I was able to get before they disappeared and I'll never buy any HC's. This one cigar is just a stubborn/spite thing for me. 

To answer the original Question; Yeah, I think 60 RG cigars will be relatively common place (even more than they are now) by 2030. Less than half the market, but certainly a large share. I think the "trend" will eventually go back the other way, but I'm not holding my breath. 

[Thirds]

What will Cuba discontinue to make room for the larger ring gauge cigars?  If they don’t have enough tobacco now for their catalog something must be cut to make room for tobacco gobbling large RGs.  

[Chibearsv]

18 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

I've smoked and enjoyed both. El Laguito E2 are a treat. Ive also Smoked and enjoyed much larger cigars in the 58-60 range. I've also smoked 33, 38, 40, 42 RG cigars that where just as tasty, didn't make my jaw ache, and didnt cost an arm and a leg. OK, some bigger rg cigars are fine, but I need more than "Just Because."

That "mildness" you're referencing is just the extra Volado required to ensure something that big burns, I agree with your pallet on this. But, Its my main gripe, not an attractive feature to me. HSA has taken great cigars, in great formats, and watered them down. While "going premium" with the packaging and charging us more in the process. No Thanks.

There is certainly a place for cigars larger than 50rg, but there are far too many of them on the market right now. What's the difference between the wonderful(and discontinued) HUPC and the "NEW" HUHC? Volado. Its the clearest example, to me, of Cuba changing its portfolio to match the leaf they can produce. I'll slowly smoke through the remaining PC's I was able to get before they disappeared and I'll never buy any HC's. This one cigar is just a stubborn/spite thing for me. 

To answer the original Question; Yeah, I think 60 RG cigars will be relatively common place (even more than they are now) by 2030. Less than half the market, but certainly a large share. I think the "trend" will eventually go back the other way, but I'm not holding my breath. 

Lucid and logical, thank you!

[Chas.Alpha]

Checked with my shopkeep over in Tampa. He said that 60/+ gauge cigars account for 35% of his sales. Who knew?...

[smbauerllc]

Checked with my shopkeep over in Tampa. He said that 60/+ gauge cigars account for 35% of his sales. Who knew?...

Yeah, I recall reading an article a couple years ago, probably in Cigar Aficionado, about bigger rg smokes being very popular with the younger crowd of smokers, just like infused cigars.

Personally prefer robustos and belicosos in any marca, nc or cc, that they are available in.

Was gifted 6 DE Acid infused Cigars and thought they were pretty terrible personally. Didn't even know anyone, even on the various forums I belong to that ever mentioned liking them, to give them to, so the 4 remaining went in the trash.

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[Zebra]

“By 2030......will 60 + ring gauges be the norm?”

Oh god, I really hope not.

I’m not interested in anything over 50 RG… at most.

I do think the fad will come to an end eventually. I don’t fully understand what’s driven it but I could speculate. It certainly isn’t quality of experience though.

[SCgarman]

9 hours ago, Thirds said:

What will Cuba discontinue to make room for the larger ring gauge cigars?  If they don’t have enough tobacco now for their catalog something must be cut to make room for tobacco gobbling large RGs.  

All the good smaller format cigars. A la Upmann petit coronas and the like. 

 

9 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

I've smoked and enjoyed both. El Laguito E2 are a treat. Ive also Smoked and enjoyed much larger cigars in the 58-60 range. I've also smoked 33, 38, 40, 42 RG cigars that where just as tasty, didn't make my jaw ache, and didnt cost an arm and a leg. OK, some bigger rg cigars are fine, but I need more than "Just Because."

That "mildness" you're referencing is just the extra Volado required to ensure something that big burns, I agree with your pallet on this. But, Its my main gripe, not an attractive feature to me. HSA has taken great cigars, in great formats, and watered them down. While "going premium" with the packaging and charging us more in the process. No Thanks.

There is certainly a place for cigars larger than 50rg, but there are far too many of them on the market right now. What's the difference between the wonderful(and discontinued) HUPC and the "NEW" HUHC? Volado. Its the clearest example, to me, of Cuba changing its portfolio to match the leaf they can produce. I'll slowly smoke through the remaining PC's I was able to get before they disappeared and I'll never buy any HC's. This one cigar is just a stubborn/spite thing for me. 

To answer the original Question; Yeah, I think 60 RG cigars will be relatively common place (even more than they are now) by 2030. Less than half the market, but certainly a large share. I think the "trend" will eventually go back the other way, but I'm not holding my breath. 

I fully agree with this. You and I are of the same mindset.

[NSXCIGAR]

5 hours ago, Cigar Surgeon said:

When JC Newman released the Diamond Crown, a 54 ring gauge cigar in 1995 it was a massive outlier. Prior to that anything over 50 RG was largely considered a novelty. Once those flood gates were opened you saw the LGC Serie R making the 6x60 a standard format around 2001, the Tatuaje Gran Cojon in the mid 2000s, et. al.

Contrary to the above comments about retailers not moving large RG cigars, large RG cigars are the bulk of the sales (52 RG and up). You want to not move a cigar? Put it out in a Lonsdale and watch it languish at most US shops.

I get a lot of flack for it but I've long been a proponent that anything over 52 RG is a waste of tobacco. You'll almost never see a blender or experience tobacco person smoking anything above a 46 RG, and I contend that any cigar that is blended 54 RG and can always be blended with the same tobaccos in a smaller format for superior flavor.

Unfortunately the US market is king and the US market has been driving large RG demand for a while. There's no expectation that it will stop.

So this all happened simultaneously in 2001. Very odd. And yes, obviously 50+ are the big sellers. No denying that. Again, I find it peculiar that it wasn't just an expanding segment--it was a whole trend shift from sub-50 to 50+. And at the time CC production was nearly double what it is today--most of those sub-50 RG. Did all those 42 RG smokers just up and switch?

As far as the blending theory, I'm not a blender but you could certainly be right. Can a blend just be scaled up and scaled down? The only thing that would change is wrapper ratio. In larger RGs the burn is more lateral than longitudinal. I would love to analyze the differences in flavor delivery based on burn dynamics. Clearly we know that small RG are often stronger and more flavorful. 

[El Presidente]

5 hours ago, Thirds said:

What will Cuba discontinue to make room for the larger ring gauge cigars?  If they don’t have enough tobacco now for their catalog something must be cut to make room for tobacco gobbling large RGs.  

False assumption. They have plenty of tobacco for their catalogue. 

Larger RG's are produced because they sell. Smaller gauges are discontinued or production cut because they don't. 

I smoke under 50 gauge. Mostly under 46. I manufacture 38 gauge.  I am in the minority. 

[NSXCIGAR]

5 hours ago, Thirds said:

What will Cuba discontinue to make room for the larger ring gauge cigars?  If they don’t have enough tobacco now for their catalog something must be cut to make room for tobacco gobbling large RGs.  

They've got the leaf. There are always wrapper shortages in certain areas like BHK but they have plenty of filler, especially volado to stuff into large RGs. 

Any recent shortages you're hearing about are logistical, not material.

Recent discussion on where their leaf goes here:

 

[Cigar Surgeon]

17 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

So this all happened simultaneously in 2001. Very odd. And yes, obviously 50+ are the big sellers. No denying that. Again, I find it peculiar that it wasn't just an expanding segment--it was a whole trend shift from sub-50 to 50+. And at the time CC production was nearly double what it is today--most of those sub-50 RG. Did all those 42 RG smokers just up and switch?

As far as the blending theory, I'm not a blender but you could certainly be right. Can a blend just be scaled up and scaled down? The only thing that would change is wrapper ratio. In larger RGs the burn is more lateral than longitudinal. I would love to analyze the differences in flavor delivery based on burn dynamics. Clearly we know that small RG are often stronger and more flavorful. 

Naw JC Newman was at least a year before LGC and it took some time before 60 RG had real traction. There wasn't any major releases for 3-4 years later until Tatuaje and then another 2-3 years after that. I'd say 60 RG wasn't 'mainstream' until after 2010 and Drew Estate with the 60 RG MUWATs probably helped normalize it.

[Ites]

To be honest my nightmare scenario is that more and more thinner rg sticks get sacked. I prefer 42 and below, but will tolerate certain 44 and 46 on occasion but they do require me to specifically want something bigger. Above 46? No thanks. Sure, Connie 1 and slr regios I still want to try (both 48) but am already hesitant to the size!

[LLC]

9 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

Ok, a question for all of you guys that would say "I'm against it" for 50+ cigars. 

Have you never had a QdO 54 or Partagas E2 that you found enjoyable or have you not tried them?  I think there is a mildness that tends to come with the larger ring gauges that I enjoy as long as there's enough flavor to compensate. 

I think E2 is a great example of a very tasty cigar with a larger ring gauge.  I'm just curious if you disagree with that statement.  I'd like to know if it's a palate thing, or a comfort thing, or a stubborn thing. 

I am not against big ring gauges but 60 seems ridiculous. If the cigar is very good I am ok with 52,54 and even a 56 when it’s a Behike 😉 

I would say my favorite vitola is Corona Gorda so 46 ring gauge. 

[Chibearsv]

1 minute ago, LLC said:

I am not against big ring gauges but 60 seems ridiculous. If the cigar is very good I am ok with 52,54 and even a 56 when it’s a Behike 😉 

I would say my favorite vitola is Corona Gorda so 46 ring gauge. 

Agree. 42-48 is my wheelhouse and 56 is as fat as I’ve gone. I think I’d have to hear a bunch of glowing reviews before I’d buy a 60 to try. I’m not anticipating that’s going to happen though. 

[Meesterjojo]

This is going to end up like the prol bar scene in 1984. The old man wants a pint, but they only sell liters.

[Midas]

Does anyone believe there’s ever going to be a reverse in trend and we will see the resurgence of the smaller ring gauge?


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[Zebra]

7 hours ago, Midas said:

Does anyone believe there’s ever going to be a reverse in trend and we will see the resurgence of the smaller ring gauge?

I do. I see it beginning already tbh. Skinny and medium ring gauges seem to have a lot of fans posting on the interwebs.

[NSXCIGAR]

On 7/7/2021 at 7:38 AM, Chibearsv said:

Have you never had a QdO 54 or Partagas E2 that you found enjoyable or have you not tried them? 

Well, you are talking about 54 RGs here and I find 54 manageable. Clearly, there are very good cigars in the 52-56 range and while I don't prefer them I wouldn't dismiss them based on RG.

But one does reach an upper limit. I would have to say 56 is probably mine. I just do not think a 58+ would be very enjoyable for me. A cigar would have to be truly outstanding for me to attempt it. If it was on par with even typical special production I would likely never smoke it. 

 

16 hours ago, Midas said:

Does anyone believe there’s ever going to be a reverse in trend and we will see the resurgence of the smaller ring gauge?

Not anytime soon, no. We have not seen a new regular production cigar under 47 RG since 2012 RG Perlas. I don't really count the Linea Retro Marevas as those are novelty cigars IMO. 

And the special releases keep getting bigger. Lots of 56s dropped in the last few years. The three Cohibas were 60, 58 and 57 with the Ideales a 56.

I think the idea is to placate us with smaller RGs with the Regionals. They seem to put some effort into cranking out sub-50 RGs for the program so at best we could expect some more of those. But as far as regular production I don't see any Lonsdales appearing any time soon.

2 hours ago, Lrabold89 said:

I remember the first 54 I had was a San Juan

You never had a PSE2?

[LLC]

3 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Well, you are talking about 54 RGs here and I find 54 manageable. Clearly, there are very good cigars in the 52-56 range and while I don't prefer them I wouldn't dismiss them based on RG.

But one does reach an upper limit. I would have to say 56 is probably mine. I just do not think a 58+ would be very enjoyable for me. A cigar would have to be truly outstanding for me to attempt it. If it was on par with even typical special production I would likely never smoke it. 

 

 

I do agree with this. The largest RG I’ve had is 58 with the Cohiba Supremos. They have been outstanding but for me it is a very occasional cigar. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm fine if they insist on making larger rgs *provided* they continue to offer skinnies for those of us that prefer them as well. 
 

My preferences seem to vary from about 35 (Montecarlos) to 52, anything bigger than that is just not my cup of tea. I do wonder if Cuba is leaning in to this trend in hopes of creating less plugged cigars by default?

[NSXCIGAR]

6 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I do wonder if Cuba is leaning in to this trend in hopes of creating less plugged cigars by default?

Widespread draw issues haven't been a factor since 2001. I haven't found smaller RGs to be any more or less likely to have worse draws than larger RGs. The last three boxes of PLMC and two MdO4 I got had zero draw problems. The last box of Connie 1 I got had two. 

I think it's just the consumer preference trend.

[Greenhorn2]

On 7/7/2021 at 9:29 AM, Hammer Smokin' said:

it's up the orient and the american market (even though it's illegal for them to purchase cubans, but I digress). 

 

they control the market. 

 

i suspect those two nations make up 60% or more of your sales. (maybe much more). 

 

americans like sucking on thick sticks. not sure about the orient, but I suspect so. 

I don't personally know many cigar smokers in my neck of the US woods but most of the ones I  do know smoke 50 and under ring gauge. 

[Enduin]

I expect the big RG trend to reverse in the future but it will take some time. Everything is cyclical, and in order to keep coming up with something “new” companies usually keep bringing back something old. Plus with trends it seems like the standard MO is to keep pushing something until it reaches a stupid level that makes the product close to unusable or un-enjoyable, then people/companies get a wake up call and go in the opposite direction.

I remember in the very early 2000s the trend for cell phones was smaller and smaller. My friend got a Nokia phone in 2002 I believe that was so small it was excruciating to text because the buttons were too small for even average sized fingers. Look at cell phones now, they are ridiculously big. Yes I know the smartphone revolution drove the push to bigger screens, but the trend already started to change when the first iPhone came out in 2007. And already with the iPhone 12 mini Apple has started testing the water for a trend reversal. It was not successful (maybe it’s too early or IMHO they didn’t get it right in terms of features) but it’s a sign.

With cigar RGs we are already at a point where something ridiculous like a 60+RG will make the cigar less enjoyable for people with an average sized mouth. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen even a few 70 RG NCs. Once there are a lot of those ridiculously big cigars on the market, chances are that the consumers and the companies will realize that those cigars are less enjoyable and coupled with the need to make something “new”, they will probably go back to smaller RGs. I’ve not been keeping up too much with the NC scene, but the last time I checked what was new (December 2020), I found WAY more small RG NCs than what I remember in the early to mid 2010s. Maybe someone who is actually up to date like @Cigar Surgeon  can comment on that, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the NC world, which is years ahead in terms of the big RG trend compared to the NC world, has already taken some steps in the opposite direction. And if NCs start going skinny, you can rest assured eventually CCs will follow. 

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, Lrabold89 said:

Yup smoke them all the time love em!! I just had the San Juan first I think

I meant had one before the SJ. But I guess it was only 3 years between the two. Could have sworn the E2 came out before 2011...