Country Club dynamics

[mprach024]

You should shoot your handicap about 1 in 4-5 rounds, and usually your average score is 3-4 shots higher than your cap depending on how high or low it is.  One great 9 hole match shouldn’t be an issue or reputation threatening.  It’s much easier to get hot over 9 holes, usually over 18 holes at some point higher handicappers find ways to give the strokes back.  I see this all the time at our Invitational which is also a 5 x 9 hole event, as well as in our weekly 9 hole league.  If the other 4 matches you played you were higher than your handicap on average, then you played exactly as the math says you should have.  He’ll get over it, or he’s probably got his own reputation as a sore loser.   Enter your scores in the GHIN system (not a 3rd party, they often use different calculations) and the universe rights itself.  

[Chibearsv]

8 hours ago, leebert said:

Yeah, I get this. Similar game (played #1 in college - worked - occasionally game shows up - insane variation in posted scores). I also get the personality (f-u preferred response to any dickhead, but trying mightily to not be that guy, trying, trying, trying…). Also, have lived and gone to school in that area. In short: I relate.

If me, it’d depend on a few things:

• What club? There are only a few substantial, connected player clubs in that area (e.g. Medina, Shore Acres, Chicago CC, Olympia… maybe Skokie) that a negative rep can materially leak outside an insular group. The farther your club strays from there, embrace your inner asshole just short of receiving a warning. You’re marking territory.
• If in the ‘connected set,’ I’d follow an amended “Ken Strategy.” Embrace the guy, but in an honest, non-antagonistic way. (a challenge for me) Over time you’ll win him over, he’ll likely feel like a dick, and should the sandbag accusation arise, you’ve him in your corner.
• The only other mod to above is if he’s a total/known tool. In that case, everyone is already discounting everything that comes out of his mouth.

Shitty situation. When it comes together, you want to feel good about it, not have some lingering qualification tarnishing your round. 
 

Best, 

 

Lee

This club isn't one of the more renowned in the area so no worries about my reputation being sullied internationally. 😁 

[GVan]

Chibearsv,

Let it go and just keep playing.  Real competitors don't give a S**t what other people think. If you care at all about your reputation all you can ask for is that it is accurate.  I just came back yesterday from the Medinah Classic - Member Guest.  Some dude with a 20 handicap shot a 79 on #3 the first day - wow- was the talk of the dinner crowd that whole night.  The shame was that we got rained out the next two days.  The Tournament committee would have changed his handicap for the rest of the rounds depending on how well he continued to play.  

Being called a "sandbagger" is a compliment as far as I'm concerned.  @StogieSteve23 can attest I can play terribly and then went to The Landings and won the Member-Guest with my partner.  One day can't hit it straight off the tee and another day they're all flying 270+ right at the target my partner is giving me - it's a funny game.  Been a member at many clubs - always find a group that I fit with - there's always a group that I don't fit with.  Some days they take my $20 (standard pool skins bet at my current club) other days I can walk away with $100+ from the pool.  The winner usually buys beers with his winnings anyway - so, most days means winning is more money out of your pocket.

If it bothers you (a little), talk to the Head Club Pro, explain the situation and your current game.  Usually, he can recommend the group you'll likely fit wit and make the introduction.  I'll bet there is a very good group of competitive golfers that would welcome you (your inconsistent game and your money).  At my club I'm known for being very inconsistent (vary 9 to a 15 over the past 4 years) and known as always posting my scores, always paying my (small) debts and always buying the first round when I win.  Funny part for me about that inconsistency is I play with ~ 12 retired Club Pro's and 2 real, retired PGA Tour Pros plus about 10 other hackers like me.  When I'm hot they are all rooting me on.  When I'm not, they're all offering polite suggestions.  Golf is a social game best played with a bunch of buddy's that you like and give you S**t when you deserve it - good or bad.

[Chibearsv]

Ok @Heels82 

The course I worked at was a public course that offered permanent tee times on the weekends.  Per the head pro's instructions, we overfilled the course regularly to generate as much revenue as possible and kept a ranger active all the time to keep things moving along.  If we were short staffed for a day, the ranger was the first spot we'd leave vacant and sometimes that created 5+ hour rounds.  On one of those occasions, I was working the shop one Sunday afternoon when one of the ladies who had a Saturday morning permanent time stormed in to complain about how backed up the first tee was. 

"Our tee time is 2:30 and it's now 3:00 and we still aren't up on the tee, what the hell is wrong with you?!  Get out there and get things moving!" 

"I'm so sorry Mrs. P, the course is totally booked up today and a couple slower golfers earlier have backed us up a little.  We will have you golfing in just a few minutes".  

"You get out there now!  I'm a member here, you can tell those other people that my group is next!"

I was trying to keep from laughing and trying to stay professional and keep things calm and low key as my Pro had been teaching me.  No anger, a big smile, keep apologizing, keep telling her she's right, eventually she'll run out of steam, etc. 

Well I looked up and the Pro was in the doorway of his office, 2 golf tees in his nose, cheeks puffed out, flapping his arms like a condor, and spinning in a circle.  I couldn't speak another word.  It took every bit of strength I had to contain it.  Mrs. P stormed out of the pro shop screaming she'd never come play here again and I couldn't say a word.  The second she left the shop, she had to have heard me and the pro laughing so hard we were crying.  I can't recall ever laughing harder in my life.

Mrs. P was back on Saturday

[PuroDiario]

Update your handicap, continue playing, disregard that member. Have fun as always. 

[Fuzz]

Screw all the sensible advice. Keep sandbagging in front of him just for giggles.

[bassistheplace]

Golf is fun

Jealous douche-bags aren't

Play more golf with cool people

[Ken Gargett]

5 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Screw all the sensible advice. Keep sandbagging in front of him just for giggles.

this is why fuzz and i are considered rob's most valuable mods. we think as one. 

[dominattorney]

This is why I love golf but will never join a country club. Luckily for me in colorado a membership is not a prerequisite to playing wonderful courses. I understand that is not the case in all areas. The club dynamic is for folks, imo, that want to be exclusive and brag about where they hang out. Those attitudes generally breed douchebagishness, in my humble experience. 

That having been said, I absolutely sympathize with your position. I played a tournament a few years ago that required a GHIN. I usually avoid them because I am more or less a 5 handicap that can shoot even par one round and an 89 the next day. Law of averages doesn't account for life with its peaks and valleys, Yada Yada. So anyway, I'm playing against a dude in a 2 man who claims to be a 10, and he doesn't enjoy that I'm only giving him so many strokes. I'm playing lights out, like 3 under through 7 because the course is short and I was hitting driver on the screws. I think I eagle the first par 4 and missed eagle on a long par 5 by an inch. I didn't make a single par through 6 holes. I was eagle, birdie, double bogey, birdie, eagle, double bogey and finally parred the seventh. Just kind of my game that day, and what happens when you drive the ball OB trying to hit the green from the tee box. Dude blows up at me and DQs his team by walking off the course. I've never seen anything like it. All I could do was laugh at the guy. Moral of the story is I made 6 on the par 3 8th hole and a bogey to finish the 9. Dude should have just stuck it out. 

Funny story alert. I am buddies with a district Court Judge in another jurisdiction and we recently played together in a bar scramble. We are drinking beers and a line of obsequious turd lawyers show up to ingratiate themselves in front of my judicial acquantance. During a lull in that he tells me to just start screaming at him when the next guy shows up, accusing him of being biased and an ignorant sob. I'll play, your honor. The look on those folks faces was priceless. And after I give him the (theatrical and staged) piss in front of these three or four greenness, judge turns to me and says "well, when you're right, you're right."  We had a great time, but then neither of us take ourselves, or the other too serious like. 

[NicPac]

1 hour ago, dominattorney said:

The club dynamic is for folks, imo, that want to be exclusive and brag about where they hang out. Those attitudes generally breed douchebagishness, in my humble experience. 

Although this might be true is some cases, I gotta respectfully disagree. In my experience (being a guy who is member at a club) is most guys and gals are there because they want to play in a reasonable amount of time (sub 4 hours), don’t want to have to make a tee time, enjoy all the tournaments, and like always having people to play with on any given day. Me personally, my club is the only course around my area that has a pedigree in regards to golf course architecture and I’m really into that part of golf. Architecturally interesting golf is really important to me. Another reason folks join a club is they value the conditioning a larger maintenance budget and less rounds per year affords.
 

Don’t get me wrong, my club has douche bags just like the rest of them, but I’d argue that comes with anyplace where people with a lot of money hangout.  
 

I write this with all due respect. I just wanted to make the point that it’s unfair to make that blanket statement because most of the folks I run across at my club or the many other clubs I’ve played at are not douche bags. Just regular people who love the game and want a place to call home. Sorta like Cheers. Where everybody knows your name

[Chibearsv]

Well it certainly seems I’m not alone in my experience. I just have the hardest time understanding someone that feels entitled to be a d-bag with someone they just met. If my guy was just talking trash, I’d not only understand it, I’d appreciate it at some level. I love smack talking on the golf course and everywhere else frankly but this was just a guy being an ass.  Foot note: his partner apologized to me the next day for his partner…who didn’t.  I’ll just do my thing and find the guys who aren’t jerks. Thank you all for the input. 😁

[ShortFatHokie]

On 6/27/2021 at 10:10 AM, Chibearsv said:

Our company recently paid a country club membership for the execs that I won't use too often since it's not nearby.  But I do play there a handful of times a year since I enjoy the golf course.  I've played golf for a long time and have kept a handicap since the early 90s.  I was a club asst. pro back in the 80s so I have been a pretty good golfer at one point in my life.  That old game shows up for usually only a few holes per round nowadays.  Anyway, I played in a 2 man best ball event that consisted of 5 9-hole matches.  My partner was someone I never met and my opponents were all members I had never met.  During one of our matches, my old game appeared and stuck with me for all 9 holes, shot one over par and I'm currently a 12 handicap so we crushed our opponents.  One of the 2 guys we played against called me a sandbagger on about the 4th hole and I shrugged it off thinking it was just gamesmanship.  Then he did it again on the 7th hole at which time I laughed and he looked me dead in the eye and told me my "reputation" was going to get around the club and "that's not a good thing".  I know, what's the point?

This guy has never apologized, never acknowledged my greeting, and never looked me in the eye since.  Unfortunately for me, I'm not at the club enough to interact with the rest of the membership like they can.  95% of the membership lives in the homes that surround the golf course.  I'm thinking that I'm probably better off avoiding the club events but that kind of sucks since I am competitive and really enjoy a real game.  My problem is that I don't succumb to pressure and in fact thrive on it.  So when I play in non-events, I enjoy the day, smoke cigars, converse with the other players, and don't really care how I score.  I'm afraid I'll be in this spot often if I consider playing in future events.  I played in the spring scramble and my team won which isn't helping my case but it's a perfect example.  I'm probably as good a scramble player as any team would want since my misses get completely ignored and my good shots can be terrific.  Now when I go to the club, most guys have their eyes down as I approach.

So my question for the country clubbers out there, what's my best move here.  Stay out of competitive events, or just say f-it, I'm playing, or is there an amount of time I should spend socializing with the members before I compete again?  Did I breach some protocol by performing well before I got known well by other members?

Would love to hear other CC stories about the dynamics of a club.

I worked in the golf business for 20 years, you unfortunately met the club jerk when you played that match.  Odds are, he's a big sandbagger and is pissed that he got beat.  More than likely, all the other golfing members are probably glad you beat that guy.  Don't worry about it, let others you play with know your end of the story regarding your golf background.  Keep playing in club events...now, if you keep that 12 handicap and keep winning, you really might have some explaining to do. 😁

[Chibearsv]

15 minutes ago, Heels82 said:

I worked for a country club one summer during high school as a golf attendant of sorts (no caddying) just cleaning carts/clubs, working tourneys and refilling the beverage cart that this smoking hot blond seemed to return with every 15 minutes.  Never ceased to amaze me how when we'd pick the range in the early evening, it'd be totally empty and the next thing you know about fifteen golfers would line up to take their shot.  Nothing like a golf ball rattling the cage to pucker the old cornhole up!

Probably 5 years after I worked as an ass pro, I lived in Connecticut and worked on the weekends cutting greens, setting pins, and other general course maintenance.  I also worked the lunch grill and tended bar in the afternoons.  It was a tiny little course in a tiny little town and I absolutely loved that job so much more.  I only did it for free golf and a few bucks since it was close to Uconn where I was living at the time with a former girlfriend.  I've always told my friends that when I retire, I'm going to find a little course nearby and see if they'll let me cut the tees and greens for free golf again.  It was so relaxing and stress free.  

[Chibearsv]

Ok @Heels82 I've got another one for you.  When I worked the course in Connecticut, I got to play in all their events and basically got to know all of the regulars very well.  I was regarded as one of the 3 or 5 best players there.  For sure, a couple of them were better than me and more consistent but we we were all buddies.  The one thing I had on all of them was distance.  This was the mid-80s and I could crack a ball 300+ with my persimmon driver.  

One day a guy I'd never seen before comes into the clubhouse and announces he's looking for a money game.  He got no takers and we put him on the course with of couple decent regulars.  After they were done, he came to the bar area and started regaling the clubhouse with his tales of greatness at other venues, he won this, he won that, and he was better than anyone at this dumpy little course.  He told all of them (I was tending bar at the moment) that he could turn his driver upside down, hit if lefty, and out drive anyone in the joint.  I just smiled and let it go but all the regulars wouldn't let it go.  They told him that he was so full of shit, for $100, they'd bet that their bartender could outdrive him (sneaky devils).  Of course he looked me up and down (I was 6'5" and about 215 pounds then) and he told them they were on; best of 3 and the ball had to be in the fairway.  He probably figured if I could hit one, I couldn't keep it on the golf course.  I quietly and sincerely told the guy not to make the bet, he couldn't win.  But that actually just emboldened him more.  He demanded that we immediately go to one of the par 5s and proceed with the challenge.  I said I'd go along but only if he hit his best shot, not the goofy upside down lefty thing; he reluctantly agreed. 

A crowd of about 15 guys got into carts and headed for the tee.  He went first and actually hit one with the driver upside down and lefty and put it about 220 in the fairway which was amazing but I told him he'd better hit a couple normal shots to be fair.  He got one near the edge of the fairway, a pretty good poke too and my evil crowd told him to go verify it was in the fairway.  He drove out to where his ball lied, shot us a thumbs up, and waved me up to fire away.  I teed up and cracked one, and all of us watched as he turned his head upward as it flew over him and landed in the center about 20 yards beyond him.  The guys were rolling on the ground laughing.  They poked fun at the guy while we all drove back for drinks.  The guy sadly pulled a hundred out of his pocket to pay off his bet and the guys in the clubhouse told him to put it away, drinks were on them and that it was worth it for the fun they had. 

He came to the course every weekend after that, a lot less cocky, and regarded as a friend by me and the regulars.

[Eric05]

If you belong to the club through work. I just wouldn't play in the events. Must of the time you can play without many members even knowing. Or if they did figure out, it doesn't sounds you are a bad guy. Offer them a cigar. Explain you don't play much. 

[Chibearsv]

36 minutes ago, Eric05 said:

If you belong to the club through work. I just wouldn't play in the events. Must of the time you can play without many members even knowing. Or if they did figure out, it doesn't sounds you are a bad guy. Offer them a cigar. Explain you don't play much. 

Yep, this is probably the route I'll take since I'm just not up there enough.  I'll play a handful of times a year, steer clear of the events except for the scrambles and hopefully get to know some good people.  Thanks

[Ken Gargett]

4 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

Ok @Heels82 I've got another one for you.  When I worked the course in Connecticut, I got to play in all their events and basically got to know all of the regulars very well.  I was regarded as one of the 3 or 5 best players there.  For sure, a couple of them were better than me and more consistent but we we were all buddies.  The one thing I had on all of them was distance.  This was the mid-80s and I could crack a ball 300+ with my persimmon driver.  

One day a guy I'd never seen before comes into the clubhouse and announces he's looking for a money game.  He got no takers and we put him on the course with of couple decent regulars.  After they were done, he came to the bar area and started regaling the clubhouse with his tales of greatness at other venues, he won this, he won that, and he was better than anyone at this dumpy little course.  He told all of them (I was tending bar at the moment) that he could turn his driver upside down, hit if lefty, and out drive anyone in the joint.  I just smiled and let it go but all the regulars wouldn't let it go.  They told him that he was so full of shit, for $100, they'd bet that their bartender could outdrive him (sneaky devils).  Of course he looked me up and down (I was 6'5" and about 215 pounds then) and he told them they were on; best of 3 and the ball had to be in the fairway.  He probably figured if I could hit one, I couldn't keep it on the golf course.  I quietly and sincerely told the guy not to make the bet, he couldn't win.  But that actually just emboldened him more.  He demanded that we immediately go to one of the par 5s and proceed with the challenge.  I said I'd go along but only if he hit his best shot, not the goofy upside down lefty thing; he reluctantly agreed. 

A crowd of about 15 guys got into carts and headed for the tee.  He went first and actually hit one with the driver upside down and lefty and put it about 220 in the fairway which was amazing but I told him he'd better hit a couple normal shots to be fair.  He got one near the edge of the fairway, a pretty good poke too and my evil crowd told him to go verify it was in the fairway.  He drove out to where his ball lied, shot us a thumbs up, and waved me up to fire away.  I teed up and cracked one, and all of us watched as he turned his head upward as it flew over him and landed in the center about 20 yards beyond him.  The guys were rolling on the ground laughing.  They poked fun at the guy while we all drove back for drinks.  The guy sadly pulled a hundred out of his pocket to pay off his bet and the guys in the clubhouse told him to put it away, drinks were on them and that it was worth it for the fun they had. 

He came to the course every weekend after that, a lot less cocky, and regarded as a friend by me and the regulars.

this reminds me of the story, slightly in reverse, of the so-called fly-fishing expert who moved down to florida and was supposed to instruct the guys at some local fly-fishing club. they decided they didn't want some interloper from the north and challenged him to prove that he was worth it.

so the top casters in the club challenged him to a casting competition to see if he could stay. he said he was happy to do that but by now, he figured he'd copped enough crap from the members so said he would do it but he'd even give them an advantage, he would not use a rod, just the fly reel (until i read this it didn't even occur to me that you could cast without a rod). their best guys got up and did very well. the interloper stepped up, sans rod, and with just his reel, blew them away with both accuracy and length of cast. 

the interloper was lefty kreh - for non fly-fishermen, pretty much the jack nicklaus of fly-fishing (i think they even fished together). 

after this, the club decided that they were very happy to have lefty and he went on to a famous career. 

[Carrie Nation]

You always get a sore loser who acts like you're the a-hole for winning. Same thing happens in the squash world. Chances are, he's the one with the bad reputation in the club. Pay it no mind and play on. 

[Ken Gargett]

11 minutes ago, Heels82 said:

Fun fact of the day:  Melissa Etheridge said she taught Brad Pitt how to fly-fish for "A River Runs Through It" as she learned growing up in the Midwest and had a pool in her backyard.   

Sauce:  https://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/field-notes/2011/09/river-runs-through-it-who-taught-brad-how-fly-cast/

you could have given me a thousand guesses and i'd never have picked her. love the music. 

[Ryan]

Club members are like neighbours, you don't get to choose them.

Unlike neighbours, you don't have to see them from your house. Don't let the bs take up any space in your head. As Kris Kristofferson said to Sinead O' Connor, "Don't let the b*****ds get you down."