Anatomy of a "Bad Box"?

[gr8eman]

Thanks! I love FOH!

[GotYaGoat]

1 hour ago, Odessa said:

What is the box code and production date? Thank you. 

UBM, Aug 19

[Bijan]

4 hours ago, PuroDan said:

This is all part of buying/smoking cuban cigars. This will not be the last time you get a bad box if you by enough boxes of cubans its gonna happen.This has nothing to do with Ravi and everything to do with Cuba being Cuba.

Yes short of smoking a couple of cigars from the box before shipping them to the customer, there's not much that can be done to prevent this 😂

There's at least one vendor who's FAQ says we can't guarantee taste or flavours.

 

3 hours ago, PuroDan said:

What the???? Give a guy a bad review for sending you Cuban cigars. Its one thing if you get a moldy box or damaged sticks, but to blame a vendor for Cuba being Cuba is an absolute disgrace. This statement above puzzles me. Rookies 🤣

I think he means for someone to review how bad the cigar is. Not to give the vendor a bad review.

[PuroDan]

3 hours ago, Bijan said:

I think he means for someone to review how bad the cigar is. Not to give the vendor a bad review.

My bad then. Sometimes the ADHD kicks in high gear. No excuses though

 

8 hours ago, Chas.Alpha said:

A 2015 box of Partagas 898, rolled so tight they were all like sucking a golf ball thru a garden hose. Had to skewer every one just to (try) and smoke them. I have fought my way to the last one!

      
Gorgeous looking sticks, don’t you think?... 🤔

 

So unfortunate. This is imo one of the best cigars coming out of Cuba today and they arent cheap.

10 hours ago, Fosgate said:

Agree 100% I've had D4's  & LaPunta from 2014 looked dry, many damaged wrappers that were the best smokes and able to smoke down to 1/4 inch. Then grab the next box of the same and theyr pretty but "meh" as a smoke. Worst was a box of Monte #2's back when you might be frustrated with the whole box but you'll get one that makes up for it all. I had a box where they were all turned into lawn darts. I never had that "one". 100% plugged or tastless dog rockets. I just picked up a second box of Monte 2's in hope that this box has a better reputation. 

Great article. I am going to my humi now with some mineral oil and gonna make all my cigars PSP and HQ quality

 

7 hours ago, gr8eman said:

I got them from COH of which I have never received a bad box from otherwise! I double-checked them to make sure they were not fakes and  am almost 100% sure these are the real deal, but I also read a lot of bad reviews. I am sure I could have returned them after I pitched the first one I tried, but (for some reason) I didn't believe the entire box could be all bad! I am sure Ravi would have taken interest in this situation and made good!

For whatever reason (lack of experience and know how) I am still baffled that an entire RE dress box could be foul...granted I have received boxes that had somehow gotten wet and returned them immediately. This seems like a proper topic for the forum as I am still baffled!

What I do not know is: is the foul tobacco the filler? (the wrappers look good) Since I haven't been to Cuba...is there a situation in whatever factory this was produce in, where the good tobacco may have been switched out for bad by one of the rollers?

I figure by trying to address this my coin will not be totally wasted, although I could have gotten a box of Lusis for what I spent on this crap! Anyway if anyone on the forum wants the remainder of these cigars to test out for scientific purposes, I will gladly send them! A Bad Cigar Review, perhaps?!

 

This is all part of buying/smoking cuban cigars. This will not be the last time you get a bad box if you by enough boxes of cubans its gonna happen.This has nothing to do with Ravi and everything to do with Cuba being Cuba.

 

12 hours ago, RedLantern said:

These are the cigars that you give away to the non-smokers, right? 

If your on the west coast you might do that. I try to give a newbee or non smoker some of the really good sticks on trades/hand outs ect. I mean, i brag about Cubans all the time for a good reason. If i were to give them a dud why would they ever want to burn another one? If you get a bad box or a few duds, man up and chuck em. Take the loss. Its all part of the game. Remember they are just cigars and its just money

 

13 hours ago, GotYaGoat said:

Currently going through a bad box of Epi #2. The wrappers are very rough to the touch. Each one has tunneled like a mole. And the taste is acrid. 

 

This is a perfect example of how looks can be deceiving. Those are a "great looking example" of what a steller Epi 2 should look like.

 

8 hours ago, Chas.Alpha said:

A 2015 box of Partagas 898, rolled so tight they were all like sucking a golf ball thru a garden hose. Had to skewer every one just to (try) and smoke them. I have fought my way to the last one!

      
Gorgeous looking sticks, don’t you think?... 🤔

 

They look great, but.....Tent poles are tent poles. I have had my fair share of boxes of dark oily wrappers that were tent poles as well. So excited at first when opening the box. Then i pick one up and i know by the weight in my hand its over. Then i frantically go through the rest of the box to see if they are all like that. If you squeeze an orange real hard it starts to juice right? Same concept with cigars. If you roll a cigar tight enough the oils will come to the wrapper "if there is already oil present in cigar"

 

19 hours ago, Tstew75 said:

This has honestly never happened to me. Where did you source those from? Do you know if they were ever mistreated/ not stored correctly?

Anythings possible...I'm sure other forum members can come up with other un-smokable box examples, but yea rare

Lol. Just keep smoking and buying boxes and you will see. Its all worth it though.

 

4 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

When a cigar tastes that bad there was likely a problem in the processing of the leaf, and probably some or all of the filler, yes. 

With a cigar like an ER, much of the leaf is comes from the same place and is processed together. This could apply to all of a cigar's filler, but depending on the blend possibly only the ligero, only the seco or only the volado. There's little if any ligero in ERDM, so probably the seco and/or volado. For an 80,000 stick run, likely all of that specific leaf comes from the same finca, same batch, same barn, same time. If something goes wrong (unbeknownst to the veguero) a significant part of that dedicated leaf could be affected.

For most of an entire box to be affected a large portion of the leaf dedicated to that cigar brought into the factory at that time was affected. Maybe a few bales, a few thousand cigars. The way cigars are rolled and sorted for most of a box to be affected I would guess most or all of the bales brought in at that time were affected. The entire run of ERs are typically not rolled at once but spread out over months. I suppose it's possible for all the leaf to be compromised but unlikely. Processing issues are usually relegated to small portions of the batches, i.e. a bale or two out of 20. The barns are big and so are fermentation piles. Sometimes some leaves just doesn't get the proper exposure. 

I would imagine they also have tasters that check all the ERs to make sure the blend is correct and the leaf isn't totally compromised before going out. In other words, it's highly unlikely all or even most of a given ER is compromised in this way.

Great work @NSXCIGAR

[El Presidente]

If you haven't purchased a bad (or at least ordinary) box of Cuban cigars.......you haven't bought a lot of cuban cigars 

It is part and parcel of purchasing Cuban cigars. You can minimise the risk but you can't eliminate it. 

[LLC]

A bad box can and will eventually come from any vendor. It’s just the way it is with Cuban cigars. I’d say it rare to get a complete box of duds but it can and does happen.

Damn that box of HU Mag 46’s I’m trying to smoke through


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gr8eman]

Hmmm...that's why I put Bad Box in quotations. I have gotten mediocre to bad boxes in the past, (which is why I joined FOH) but this is a crime! Unsmokable LEs...not just poor flavour??!! Never heard that before!

[NSXCIGAR]

 

2 minutes ago, gr8eman said:

Unsmokable LEs...not just poor flavour??!! Never heard that before!

Ha, you certainly haven't been around long enough. 

Ask @Ken Gargett about the Monte C...

[gr8eman]

19 hours ago, Tstew75 said:

This has honestly never happened to me. Where did you source those from? Do you know if they were ever mistreated/ not stored correctly?

Anythings possible...I'm sure other forum members can come up with other un-smokable box examples, but yea rare

 

12 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

Have you had that exact cigar previously from a different box when you enjoyed it?  Most of the other posters are mentioning construction issues but you're saying the construction is perfect.  Maybe it's just a flavor profile that doesn't work for you. 

 

4 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

When a cigar tastes that bad there was likely a problem in the processing of the leaf, and probably some or all of the filler, yes. 

With a cigar like an ER, much of the leaf is comes from the same place and is processed together. This could apply to all of a cigar's filler, but depending on the blend possibly only the ligero, only the seco or only the volado. There's little if any ligero in ERDM, so probably the seco and/or volado. For an 80,000 stick run, likely all of that specific leaf comes from the same finca, same batch, same barn, same time. If something goes wrong (unbeknownst to the veguero) a significant part of that dedicated leaf could be affected.

For most of an entire box to be affected a large portion of the leaf dedicated to that cigar brought into the factory at that time was affected. Maybe a few bales, a few thousand cigars. The way cigars are rolled and sorted for most of a box to be affected I would guess most or all of the bales brought in at that time were affected. The entire run of ERs are typically not rolled at once but spread out over months. I suppose it's possible for all the leaf to be compromised but unlikely. Processing issues are usually relegated to small portions of the batches, i.e. a bale or two out of 20. The barns are big and so are fermentation piles. Sometimes some leaves just doesn't get the proper exposure. 

I would imagine they also have tasters that check all the ERs to make sure the blend is correct and the leaf isn't totally compromised before going out. In other words, it's highly unlikely all or even most of a given ER is compromised in this way.

 

2 hours ago, LLC said:

A bad box can and will eventually come from any vendor. It’s just the way it is with Cuban cigars. I’d say it rare to get a complete box of duds but it can and does happen.
 

 

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

If you haven't purchased a bad (or at least ordinary) box of Cuban cigars.......you haven't bought a lot of cuban cigars 

It is part and parcel of purchasing Cuban cigars. You can minimise the risk but you can't eliminate it. 

 

4 hours ago, GotYaGoat said:

UBM, Aug 19

 

 

LAR NOV 12

 

2 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

 

Ha, you certainly haven't been around long enough. 

Ask Ken about the Monte C...

Yes, I remember Ken mentioning that on a review.

[PuroDan]

45 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

If you haven't purchased a bad (or at least ordinary) box of Cuban cigars.......you haven't bought a lot of cuban cigars 

It is part and parcel of purchasing Cuban cigars. You can minimise the risk but you can't eliminate it. 

Amen

[Ken Gargett]

5 minutes ago, gr8eman said:

Yes, I remember Ken mentioning that on a review.

don't think we ever did them on a review? i don't think rob would have been game. toxic little dog turds. overpriced, overhyped garden manure. LE for Least ever. Lowest in Eternity. L for Effort. 

overall i am a long way ahead on rob's recommendations and selections so i can't complain. been very fortunate. but those wiped out a lot of brownie points. dire. 

the only other time rob let me down (and please balance this with the very many wins i've had thanks to his suggestions so i would take it any day) was with a box of hoyo DCs. from around 2000 or 2001 i think. a lot paler than i would normally opt for but otherwise they looked fine. they were not bad in the sense of being horrible. they were just blah. bland, neutral, flavourless. one expects more. so for me, that was a fail.

but overall, i have been very fortunate from rob's selections, as i am sure many others have as well. 

[CFCTerry]

8 hours ago, Chas.Alpha said:

A 2015 box of Partagas 898, rolled so tight they were all like sucking a golf ball thru a garden hose. Had to skewer every one just to (try) and smoke them. I have fought my way to the last one!

      
Gorgeous looking sticks, don’t you think?... 🤔

 

This is really sad....not to mention 898s are so hard to find these days.

 

[SmokyFontaine]

I purchased a 10ct of RyJ Short Churchills where I literally swore and threw two across the yard. A couple more, I diassembled when they refused to burn, and ceremoniously burnt the remains in the firepit. I also had a bad 10ct of Monte 2's, come to think of it. I wonder if 10s are sorted any differently. Hunh.

[clickbangdoh]

I had a box of Trinidad Vigia that were all, every one of them, horribly underfilled to the point where they were unsmokable unless you did the "cuban crush" on them to a startling degree. Purchased here. Second box has been zero issues, so... apparently the buncher was getting ready to leave for the day or something and just couldn't be bothered. Luck of the draw (Ha!) sometimes.

[mprach024]

Pick any CC and I’ve had a bad box of it at some point.  This is a nontopic as it’s just a part of the hobby.  Trust me it’s way better than it used to be, there were times in early 2000s you were playing Russian Roulette with 5 bullets loaded.  If I get a dud, I’ll try to work it for a bit, but if there’s no quick success than into the bin it goes.  Onto the next.  If that ones crap.....onto the next.   The solution is always the same whether the box was good or crap, buy more cigars.  

[El Presidente]

I was telling the lads on FOH Zoom that I have a beautiful box of 2017 BBF that are immaculate in every way: construction, wrapper (thin colorado with sheen), aroma. They draw like a dream. the only problem is that none will hold a burn. 

If LCDH  5th and 16th Havana were to open 10 boxes of BBF then this is the box you would have picked.  outstanding in every way. Thankfully I have plenty of other good to great BBF but this specific box still perplexes me. I have no idea why they will not stay lit more than a minute. 

[Fosgate]

34 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

I was telling the lads on FOH Zoom that I have a beautiful box of 2017 BBF that are immaculate in every way: construction, wrapper (thin colorado with sheen), aroma. They draw like a dream. the only problem is that none will hold a burn. 

If LCDH  5th and 16th Havana were to open 10 boxes of BBF then this is the box you would have picked.  outstanding in every way. Thankfully I have plenty of other good to great BBF but this specific box still perplexes me. I have no idea why they will not stay lit more than a minute. 

Short commentary on maybe the culprit.  https://www.famous-smoke.com/cigaradvisor/why-do-my-cigars-keep-going-out-on-me

"Another factor could be the cigars had a too much ligero in the filler; the binder was either not properly cured, or it was improperly bunched. Ligero is very oily and will burn poorly if not aided by the binder. Or, it could also have been the wrapper was too moist, too oily, or a combination of all of the above."

 

[JZBdano]

I've got an 09 box of Lusis that won't put out any smoke on the draw and require constant relights.  They look great, not over filled but do have a firm draw.  9 of the first 11 over 5 years were complete failures, last 2 were smokable but a chore.  I'll keep trying, maybe the bottom row was rolled by a different person, 🤞.

Other notable bad boxes have been Picadores, HUHC and a flat boring LUB ABR 14 50 cab of Mag 46, ok for a yard gar but nothing like 46 should be especially from that code.  

 

[Chas.Alpha]

I was serious about offering a trade for them. They couldn’t possibly be that bad? 🤔

[NSXCIGAR]

35 minutes ago, Fosgate said:

Short commentary on maybe the culprit.  https://www.famous-smoke.com/cigaradvisor/why-do-my-cigars-keep-going-out-on-me

"Another factor could be the cigars had a too much ligero in the filler; the binder was either not properly cured, or it was improperly bunched. Ligero is very oily and will burn poorly if not aided by the binder. Or, it could also have been the wrapper was too moist, too oily, or a combination of all of the above."

 

I've been convinced that these issues are entirely due to processing, so I agree with the above. The "fireproof wrapper" phenomenon is so unique and distinct that clearly something is wrong with the leaf.

Like Rob's BBFs I had several 10 boxes of Monte PE 18s that had lovely wrappers and the flavors were amazing but they simply would not burn. Certainly the wrapper and probably the binder too. I kept torching the hell out of them because they tasted so good I couldn't toss it. I finally would give up just past halfway. 

[Chas.Alpha]

2 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I've been convinced that these issues are entirely due to processing, so I agree with the above. The "fireproof wrapper" phenomenon is so unique and distinct that clearly something is wrong with the leaf.

Like Rob's BBFs I had several 10 boxes of Monte PE 18s that had lovely wrappers and the flavors were amazing but they simply would not burn. Certainly the wrapper and probably the binder too. I kept torching the hell out of them because they tasted so good I couldn't toss it. I finally would give up just past halfway. 

I was put off the entire VR line for some years after jumping in on the flameproof Don Alajandro’s in the mid 2000’s. Funny how a bad experience will do that...

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, mprach024 said:

Pick any CC and I’ve had a bad box of it at some point.

Got me thinking and I would have to say there are only two cigars I don't think I've ever had a dud box of that I've bought enough of over the years for a fair assessment: La Fuerza and Famosos. Everything else, yes, I've had a box that was majority off.

[JohnS]

Some recent polls in the last few years on the subject...

 

[Chas.Alpha]

I bought the box of P898’s at a LCDH in Europe some years back. Opened them up, they looked gorgeous. Some months back home, I tried the first stick. Golf ball and garden hose. A month later, tried the next one. Same. By the time I had (tried) smoking the 8-10th of them, I stood in front of a mirror to see if I looked like Rene Zellweger posing for the Oscar awards. By #18, I I gave up and bought a pink dress and a plane ticket to L.A. 😔

[Fosgate]

https://worldofbuzz.com/indian-farmer-dye-inject-vegetables-make-look-fresh-big/

This is consumable vegetables in india. There are also so much taint in the organic meats, fruits and vegetable market here in the US that I really don't pay any attention to the Organic market anymore. Grow or harvest my ownn if it means that much. I have no doubt that similar dishonesty happens in tobacco.

However, I doubt its so rampant among captive plantations to manufacuturers. Like the fruit, vegetable and meats,  I think it's more prevalent in small independent growers/sellers may enguage in such practice trying to get their product sold to market.

I would also believe in Cuba it would be more difficult to pull over such dishonesty. For one, availability for synthetic products I'd imagine is difficult even if you have the coin. Second, I would image in Cuba the reprocussionn of duping the govt market would be pretty severe and catastrophic to ones livelyhood and well being. In a society with so many eyes and ears I think it would be high risk.