That creeping inevitability...

[rcarlson]

17 minutes ago, Capt. Corona said:

My point from all the way back around the first of March.  Example is plain and clear how people want to pretend out here in Arizona. Our fine gov "reopened" the state just before Memorial weekend to boost the ailing economy.  This was good for everyone and we were excited to see it so we could start back on a path of some type of recovery.  The problem....people don't know how to act as a whole.  Everyone threw their masks in the garbage and screw any type of social distancing.  Youngsters were horny and packed the bars and the old people were tired of their spouses cooking at home and packed the restaurants.  We finally for the first time decided on a curb side pick up from our fav for the first time in months.  It was like Arizona palooza everywhere....few masks seen and social distancing out the window.  Reporters walking up and down the street interviewing young kids over in college town.  One interview sticks in mind of a college youngster refusing to wear a mask because his friends don't and they may make "fun" of him if he did.  Stated he had close family members die from this crap so he "probably" should wear one but "probably" won't!  Peer pressure doing it's finest work.  He'll probably get elected for president someday.

Do a search and see the results of all this madness a month later.

Not sure I need to do a search.  The selective agenda-driven creation and application of confinement and other behavioural restrictions, governmental and peer, is evident.  The same politicians that enacted rat-on-your-neighbor programs exempted and encouraged politically expedient mass gatherings before my very eyes.    

[BrightonCorgi]

35 minutes ago, Chibearsv said:

If you carry a cell phone, too late.  No surgery necessary

I can leave that at home or shut it off.

[Capt. Corona]

10 minutes ago, rcarlson said:

Not sure I need to do a search.  The selective agenda-driven creation and application of confinement and other behavioural restrictions, governmental and peer, is evident.  The same politicians that enacted rat-on-your-neighbor programs exempted and encouraged politically expedient mass gatherings before my very eyes.    

Nothing new...Are you surprised?

[BrightonCorgi]

16 minutes ago, joeypots said:

Here's a good summary of the issue. Massachusetts has done a good job of containment since the terrible early outbreak.

https://theweek.com/articles/923075/massachusetts-exception-americas-coronavirus-failure?fbclid=IwAR2zVd-vU2j5aI4suXkVqXnx8bEUIZCRknmVs0ubS53xo1LqoCm13Vgg93Q

I live in MA and lock down has decimated the state in many ways.  Go downtown in any city in our state and it's littered with homeless and drug addicts.  Stores are all boarded and many businesses are just out of business. It's teary eyed driving down Newbury St.  Like a horror movie.  Go to Lowell, Worcester, or Springfield and you won't want to get out of the car.

[Zigatoh]

16 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

I can leave that at home or shut it off.

But do you take the battery out...?

https://slate.com/technology/2013/07/nsa-can-reportedly-track-cellphones-even-when-they-re-turned-off.html

[BrightonCorgi]

16 minutes ago, rcarlson said:

Not sure I need to do a search.  The selective agenda-driven creation and application of confinement and other behavioural restrictions, governmental and peer, is evident.  The same politicians that enacted rat-on-your-neighbor programs exempted and encouraged politically expedient mass gatherings before my very eyes.    

It's all politics.  It's worth destroying the economy and country if you can win the White House.  Those people never miss a pay check.

 

[BrightonCorgi]

2 minutes ago, Zigatoh said:

But do you take the battery out...?

https://slate.com/technology/2013/07/nsa-can-reportedly-track-cellphones-even-when-they-re-turned-off.html

No and carrying a phone is my choice.  I shut off location services all the time and shut off Bluetooth when not in my car.  I shut off wireless when traveling. 

Being mircochipped is much different.

[Capt. Corona]

1 minute ago, BrightonCorgi said:

It's all politics.  It's worth destroying the economy and country if you can win the White House.  Those people never miss a pay check.

 

So you're in the camp that this virus is just all a political ploy to win seats in a new administration and the whole world is in on this for little ole usa because everyone around the world loves us so much?

[Capt. Corona]

2 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

No and carrying a phone is my choice.  I shut off location services all the time and shut off Bluetooth when not in my car.  I shut off wireless when traveling. 

Being mircochipped is much different.

People think they have choices when it comes to their phone.  You do......iphone or android.  That's it!

[rcarlson]

37 minutes ago, Capt. Corona said:

Nothing new...Are you surprised?

Only surprised that the most vociferous seem to not only accept it but are willing to unquestioningly advocate at the direction of the same sources.     

[BrightonCorgi]

1 hour ago, Capt. Corona said:

So you're in the camp that this virus is just all a political ploy to win seats in a new administration and the whole world is in on this for little ole usa because everyone around the world loves us so much?

Not exactly.  This comes to nationalism vs. globalism. H1N1, Ebola, and Zika all happened during the previous administration.  Most were even more fatal the Covid, but we had a globalist regime and the world treated it different due to that.  That regime was also pro-China where this one is not.  

When billionaires & global corporations get involved, only bad can come from it.  First it's masks & social distancing, then it's forced vacinations, micro chipping, and facial recognition...  Sure each part is done to degree, but now it's going to be forced, sanctioned, and accepted as the "new normal".  

It's nation states vs. new world order.

[Capt. Corona]

52 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Not exactly.  This comes to nationalism vs. globalism. H1N1, Ebola, and Zika all happened during the previous administration.  Most were even more fatal the Covid, but we had a globalist regime and the world treated it different due to that.  That regime was also pro-China where this one is not.  

When billionaires & global corporations get involved, only bad can come from it.  First it's masks & social distancing, then it's forced vacinations, micro chipping, and facial recognition...  Sure each part is done to degree, but now it's going to be forced, sanctioned, and accepted as the "new normal".  

It's nation states vs. new world order.

I guess what it comes down to is just what each individual is willing to except because it's happening all around us and honestly I don't think it's avoidable.  I'm a believer that united we will stand and divided we will fall.  Doesn't take a scholar to look around and see the division going on in this country and the rest of the world for that matter.  The cleansing is rapidly happening and the world will be a different place when the billionaire's finally have their way.  Who do you think is really running our country at this moment?  Certainly not the people.  The "We" got turned into a "Me" and it only gets worse every 4 years.

[Zigatoh]

5 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

No and carrying a phone is my choice.  I shut off location services all the time and shut off Bluetooth when not in my car.  I shut off wireless when traveling. 

Being mircochipped is much different.

Microchip is only required to keep power running for location services even when the battery is taken out, the NSA likely used a trojan horse virus, meaning even when you think you have turned the location services and bluetooth and even the phone 'off' they can still locate you. Only way to stop this on even on a non microchipped phone is to remove the battery.

Not saying the NSA have infected your phone with this virus, but it is possible to do.

[PigFish]

Being a believer in freedom, i am enjoying the display of prejudice openly displayed on this forum. We might as well get it into the open "if you don't think like xxx, you are an idiot!"

For me, thinking (you are superior) is a given right. That is largely what I see here. Since I belong to a community (FoH) I do try, for the sake of courtesy, to control the urge to say it when I am thinking it. It certainly is not courtesy given some others on this thread!

In the world of humans, there are none that call themselves idiots... There are no bad drivers... Prejudice describes the other 'guy.' Yet the Gaussian view of every aspect of humanity proves differently.

For those of you who are believing that this is a small thing to do to protect others, I salute you. That is called common courtesy. However thinking that as you move through the universe  (rhetorically) that your existence and actions have no other effects on others, you are fooling no one, it just depends on how deeply you look for your own wake.

Why not then totally protect society from you causing infection? What I see; as long as it is convenient for you, you will be courteous to society. This is the same position of the others not doing what you are doing. Frankly, you are not better! I see people, both sides of any line drawn, drawing the line where they want it, based on their convenience, and saying this is 'my' position.

You ever fart in public? Sweat in public??? Itch yourself in public...? Send your sick kids to school? Go to work sick... Go to the market sick? Not wash your hands? Piss on the toilet seat and leave it for the next person...?

Stop the spread means total isolation.

Want to take yourself out the spread picture....? Stay at home. That way you are sure! If you are not willing to really do what it takes to remove all risk of intermingling, you are really no different than anyone else. Look in the mirror, pat yourself on the back if you wish... you are really no better, or worse than anyone else. It just depends on where you draw that line.

The virus travels freely, based on pore size, right through your mask. That is a fact!

Mask wearing, not wearing.... it is pretty clear. It is just another means to have the mob hate a minority group. This is just another way to hate another group and have the mob back you up. While you cannot (socially acceptably) hate someone from wearing a different skin color, it is wholly acceptable to hate someone for not wearing a mask... Who are you fooling? No one... not really!

You know, I don't see hate for those wearing masks... Yet I see lots of hatred pointed towards those that don't. What does that say about people? You can stew on that one.

Me, well, understanding individualism and group-think and I see that group-think is far easer to follow than understanding and respecting individualism. I prefer to live in a society of individuals responsible (largely) for themselves. Individuals understanding and respecting other individuals. If you want to wear a mask, I don't hate or condemn you. I feel the same about those that don't.

I think group-think, the mob hating the minority... that is what is what is dangerous to society. Frankly you have the ability, individually, to control the hate, to understand that people are different from you. You have the ability to separate yourself from others if you don't like them or what they are doing. Yet you would actually prefer to control the other man (or woman) in the room than inconvenience yourself. That illustrates your own bigotry! That is what is really at play here. You don't want to see those different from you, I will say it for you, inferior to you... Rather than leaving the room yourself, an individual controlling his/her own destiny, you would choose to make others conform to you, because you are obviously superior to them!!!

That my friends is bigoted thinking. 

Wear your mask, don't wear it. I don't give a shit! I don't hate either side, but it is fun to see those claiming understanding and acceptance, inclusion, display the hate for those that don't do what they want them to do!!! A lot of the pot calling the kettle black here... Just look behind the mask!

Cheers, and by all means, carry on!!! - the Pig

 

[Markspring1978]

I’m over this whole thing. Every aspect of it. It’s a non-issue at this point. The cattle are out of the barn. And fortunately for all of us, this thing is far less lethal than what was feared, or what some continue to fear. 

[Ken Gargett]

8 minutes ago, PigFish said:

Being a believer in freedom, i am enjoying the display of prejudice openly displayed on this forum. We might as well get it into the open "if you don't think like xxx, you are an idiot!"

For me, thinking (you are superior) is a given right. That is largely what I see here. Since I belong to a community (FoH) I do try, for the sake of courtesy, to control the urge to say it when I am thinking it. It certainly is not courtesy given some others on this thread!

In the world of humans, there are none that call themselves idiots... There are no bad drivers... Prejudice describes the other 'guy.' Yet the Gaussian view of every aspect of humanity proves differently.

For those of you who are believing that this is a small thing to do to protect others, I salute you. That is called common courtesy. However thinking that as you move through the universe  (rhetorically) that your existence and actions have no other effects on others, you are fooling no one, it just depends on how deeply you look for your own wake.

Why not then totally protect society from you causing infection? What I see; as long as it is convenient for you, you will be courteous to society. This is the same position of the others not doing what you are doing. Frankly, you are not better! I see people, both sides of any line drawn, drawing the line where they want it, based on their convenience, and saying this is 'my' position.

You ever fart in public? Sweat in public??? Itch yourself in public...? Send your sick kids to school? Go to work sick... Go to the market sick? Not wash your hands? Piss on the toilet seat and leave it for the next person...?

Stop the spread means total isolation.

Want to take yourself out the spread picture....? Stay at home. That way you are sure! If you are not willing to really do what it takes to remove all risk of intermingling, you are really no different than anyone else. Look in the mirror, pat yourself on the back if you wish... you are really no better, or worse than anyone else. It just depends on where you draw that line.

The virus travels freely, based on pore size, right through your mask. That is a fact!

Mask wearing, not wearing.... it is pretty clear. It is just another means to have the mob hate a minority group. This is just another way to hate another group and have the mob back you up. While you cannot (socially acceptably) hate someone from wearing a different skin color, it is wholly acceptable to hate someone for not wearing a mask... Who are you fooling? No one... not really!

You know, I don't see hate for those wearing masks... Yet I see lots of hatred pointed towards those that don't. What does that say about people? You can stew on that one.

Me, well, understanding individualism and group-think and I see that group-think is far easer to follow than understanding and respecting individualism. I prefer to live in a society of individuals responsible (largely) for themselves. Individuals understanding and respecting other individuals. If you want to wear a mask, I don't hate or condemn you. I feel the same about those that don't.

I think group-think, the mob hating the minority... that is what is what is dangerous to society. Frankly you have the ability, individually, to control the hate, to understand that people are different from you. You have the ability to separate yourself from others if you don't like them or what they are doing. Yet you would actually prefer to control the other man (or woman) in the room than inconvenience yourself. That illustrates your own bigotry! That is what is really at play here. You don't want to see those different from you, I will say it for you, inferior to you... Rather than leaving the room yourself, an individual controlling his/her own destiny, you would choose to make others conform to you, because you are obviously superior to them!!!

That my friends is bigoted thinking. 

Wear your mask, don't wear it. I don't give a shit! I don't hate either side, but it is fun to see those claiming understanding and acceptance, inclusion, display the hate for those that don't do what they want them to do!!! A lot of the pot calling the kettle black here... Just look behind the mask!

Cheers, and by all means, carry on!!! - the Pig

 

morning ray. always fun to read your posts although this is not one on which i'd say that i am in complete agreement. 

somehow farting in public gets equated to 130,000 of your countrymen dying of a virus, a great many of these deaths being needless? 

i simply do not buy this supposed bigotry re wearing or not wearing masks. a convenient argument to deflect but without substance. ever thought it could be that people are genuinely concerned about their safety, that of their family, their friends and the rest of the country? 

i don't see the situation as one which is demanding that people wear masks for the rest of their lives. once this is under control, be nice to see a return to whatever the new normal is. but the appalling selfishness of those who won't experience some temporary inconvenience to help get it under control staggers me. this is not about the economic issues, just some simple minor temporary adjustments. too much to ask of many, it seems. 

here in Queensland, you don't see many wearing masks. but that is because we did lockdown fairly tightly early and we are fortunate that the impact of the virus has been pretty minimal. but if we had copped it much worse, i'd expect/hope to see us doing so. 

"Individuals understanding and respecting other individuals." easy to say all this, ray, but the reality is that risking the lives of those individuals is the exact opposite of what you claim. 

[Capt. Corona]

People don't want to hear what I'm thinking, they want me to say what they're thinking.

Quote

The virus travels freely, based on pore size, right through your mask. That is a fact!

The facts can be skewed to anyone's liking.  Me farting in public might only eliminate one or two close by but those people won't go out and infect possibly another 30 or 40 the same as I did them.

 

2 hours ago, Markspring1978 said:

I’m over this whole thing. Every aspect of it. It’s a non-issue at this point. The cattle are out of the barn. And fortunately for all of us, this thing is far less lethal than what was feared, or what some continue to fear. 

Unfortunately a lot of people in Arizona were "over" this thing also.  It obviously affects everyone in different ways.  I think those that don't know anyone close to them that have been lost or severely impacted by this crap are affected a lot differently than those who have.  It really is kind of surreal the whole debate of wearing a face covering or not wearing when you think about it.  How being asked or in some instances more forced into applying one over your mouth and nose to not only help protect you but more importantly possibly help protect those around you when the situation calls for it.  To me it just shows where human kindness has taken the dive.  Most all alive today have parents or grandparents that were asked to just drop what they were doing grab a gun and go halfway across the globe to help eradicate a "virus".  Most didn't give it a second thought that they may not be coming home alive.  Today were being asked to social distance and wear a face covering when that isn't possible and most this time are FU I'm not doing that crap and they can't make me.  So sad.

[PigFish]

My post has very little to do with wearing a mask. It has everything to do with a bigoted thinking. "If you don't agree with me, you are an idiot..." ideology.

There is no shortage of people thinking that they are for the greater good. That is until your good does not agree with the mob's good. Then you go to the gulag, the gallows, or parts unknown. That is the larger history of the 'greater good movement' whatever it may be at the time.

Every tyrant and/or bigot in the world uses the 'greater good' argument. I just don't fall for it anymore.

This does not make you out an automatic idiot for not agreeing with me. I post food for thought!

This plague is here to stay folks. That is unless it mutates to a lesser form. If you actually think your mask is going to make any difference to its movement through the world, I believe you are naive, but again, that does not make you an idiot for not agreeing with me...!

I will bet that at least some of you reading this post are sitting there thinking, that Piggy is the idiot... And in that, you silently prove my point.

I am making the point that idiocy (the right to differ), yours or mine is an individual human right. To take it from you, is tyranny. I would prefer to live with idiots than under tyrants. Any half ground is only temporary. Coming full circle, every tyrant makes the greater good argument against individual liberty. It is a bigoted argument; [that] if you don't agree with me, your are against the greater good! Look at every case of tyranny, mass genocide, racial, religious and all other forms of mass persecution and you will find the 'greater good' argument. That was my whole point.

Many of you will only see the detail of the mask vs. no mask topic and that is okay with me. I am not here to argue the minutia of this. I am discussing a concept of why some people may be acting in a certain way, perhaps to help some understand what is driving others to resist and why they may be presenting certain arguments. If you choose not engage at that level, that is what freedom is all about!

Any of you want to feel superior (by deriding others) because you wear a mask, and you wish to continue to express that here, it is a-okay by me!!! -LOL I am free to stop reading these threads and at the very least not comment on them.

Now... where is an idiot that I chew out over cigar storage!!!

Cheers mates!

[Ken Gargett]

28 minutes ago, PigFish said:

My post has very little to do with wearing a mask. It has everything to do with a bigoted thinking. "If you don't agree with me, you are an idiot..." ideology.

There is no shortage of people thinking that they are for the greater good. That is until your good does not agree with the mob's good. Then you go to the gulag, the gallows, or parts unknown. That is the larger history of the 'greater good movement' whatever it may be at the time.

Every tyrant and/or bigot in the world uses the 'greater good' argument. I just don't fall for it anymore.

This does not make you out an automatic idiot for not agreeing with me. I post food for thought!

This plague is here to stay folks. That is unless it mutates to a lesser form. If you actually think your mask is going to make any difference to its movement through the world, I believe you are naive, but again, that does not make you an idiot for not agreeing with me...!

I will bet that at least some of you reading this post are sitting there thinking, that Piggy is the idiot... And in that, you silently prove my point.

I am making the point that idiocy (the right to differ), yours or mine is an individual human right. To take it from you, is tyranny. I would prefer to live with idiots than under tyrants. Any half ground is only temporary. Coming full circle, every tyrant makes the greater good argument against individual liberty. It is a bigoted argument; [that] if you don't agree with me, your are against the greater good! Look at every case of tyranny, mass genocide, racial, religious and all other forms of mass persecution and you will find the 'greater good' argument. That was my whole point.

Many of you will only see the detail of the mask vs. no mask topic and that is okay with me. I am not here to argue the minutia of this. I am discussing a concept of why some people may be acting in a certain way, perhaps to help some understand what is driving others to resist and why they may be presenting certain arguments. If you choose not engage at that level, that is what freedom is all about!

Any of you want to feel superior (by deriding others) because you wear a mask, and you wish to continue to express that here, it is a-okay by me!!! -LOL I am free to stop reading these threads and at the very least not comment on them.

Now... where is an idiot that I chew out over cigar storage!!!

Cheers mates!

morning again, Ray. great shame you don't live closer and we could discuss this on the balcony at length. only if you were willing to wear a mask, of course. 

all i did was quote your examples. if they are not appropriate, the easy answer is not to use them?? 

we have never been far apart on the overall view of most things and also in the use of 'greater good'. but that does not mean that just occasionally, the greater good is relevant. it does not always lead to hitler. that barn door might already be swinging in the wind. 

i am simply talking about the mask v no-mask (and toss in isolation/distancing if you want). i am not talking about manning the barricades to save us from the four horsemen. whether you like it or not,

every single one of us has endless rules and limitations placed upon us. we live with them (sure, many we could probably happily exist without, but no one gets this exactly right). many we might not like. others we would not want it any other way. wearing masks is not something from way out in left field. and unlike so many of the restrictions/regulations/rules etc under which we exist, assuming that the virus is defeated, at least largely so (probably will be with us in some form forever), then they'll go. i think we are the perfect example of that. as i mentioned, we are down to minimal impact here in Queensland. masks are largely gone. i'm sure some will feel safer wearing them but most won't now. and that should not be a problem. if it turns out to be so, then we will revisit it. 

someone mentioned seat belts. i am just old enough to vaguely remember that many here screamed blue murder at having this restriction placed on us. many insisted they would never do it. this was an unacceptable imposition on their liberty, civil rights, right to be an imbecile if they wanted to be. these days, who bitches about seat belts? i suspect most under 30 or 40 would think it is such an obvious thing to do, and i also suspect none feel that their liberty has been infringed. to be honest, yes, i think we can safely say that those making those claims about seat belts were indeed idiots. on that issue. 

there are countless laws regulations etc, which protect people, which limit the actions of individuals in order to preserve the safety of others or even themselves. wearing masks is a really minor one. 

if you are in an area impacted by the virus, is it really such an imposition to wear a mask? to distance? to act with a modicum of responsibility to prevent harm to your neighbours? just for a few months until we beat this?

this site seems to largely think that this is an american issue. it is most obviously not. it is not a conspiracy by faceless men to attack america, to benefit one side of politics or the other. it is a fricking virus. and it will do what it does wherever it is. there 130,000 plus deaths in the states, more than half a million worldwide. no doubt many more to come. 

ray, if terrorists attacked america killing that number and people were told that simply wearing a mask will help to defeat them, would you still refuse? 

sorry ray but you will never convince me that anyone who wants their neighbours to act responsibly in relation to this virus is a form of bigotry. i think that suggestion is utter nonsense. 

[Capt. Corona]

My dad was all over that seatbelt thing. "What's next? they gonna make us all wear helmets too?  Christ it'll be like a nascar track out there!"

[bpm32]

8 hours ago, Markspring1978 said:

I’m over this whole thing. Every aspect of it. It’s a non-issue at this point. The cattle are out of the barn. And fortunately for all of us, this thing is far less lethal than what was feared, or what some continue to fear. 

I’m over it too. It’s an absurdly emotional time and I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that we all had to spend a lot of time alone with our own thoughts and some of us cracked. I can hear it when I talk to a few of my own family members on the phone—saying loopy, generally paranoid things that aren’t true. Heck, I don’t even look at the news anymore—just a bunch of people saying wacky stuff like it’s self-evident. 

[99call]

9 hours ago, PigFish said:

I am making the point that idiocy (the right to differ), yours or mine is an individual human right. To take it from you, is tyranny. I would prefer to live with idiots than under tyrants

Reading quite a lot of posts coming from across the pond, one thing that constantly has me scratching my head is the obsession with freedom.   Here in the UK we have our own problems, the class system, restricted social mobility etc etc.   but apart from the brexit fiasco, we are very rarely obsessive about the basic concept of 'freedom'.  The widespread feeling across the UK/Europe is that freedom is a given.  

When observing how this plays out in the US, it seems to end in a sort of contrarian result.  i.e  if they really wanted some people to wear masks, they may of stood more chance releasing a public message saying.  "You must NOT! wear a mask, under no circumstance must you be caught with any face coverings, or you will be reported to the authorities".   

The point i'm getting too is,  I agree with you, people should be free, but sadly it seems that parts of the US are getting wrapped up with contrarian behaviour and conspiracy theorising to a degree, where they maybe actually self harming, by avoiding genuine messages of care and concern for their welfare.  Yes, if people want to jump off a cliff and kill themselves, they should have the right to do whatever they want, and equally people should not be bombarded with state control messaging, and shepherding ......but....but

I don't want you jump of a cliff Ray.  Jumping off a cliff (if high enough) will likely result in a 100% chance of death,  whereas someone not wearing a mask around you (if infected) may result in a chance of your infection of maybe 20%?,   and then maybe your death of 2%??    I don't know.           But my point is, is that if that level of risk marries up with some basic understood state law, like errr? a speed restriction in and around a school gate.  We don't throw up our arms and go......"this is bullshit coddling madness" we go.   "yep, seems to make sense to me,  lots of traffic, in a built up urban area. Small kids streaming out of the school gates,  20mph is a sensible speed restriction" 

I've recently returned back from Japan, and I was just leaving there as the whole Corona virus was kicking off. I dearly love Japan, the food, the richness of culture, the kindness and common sense of the people, and I'd say the wearing of masks (as a standard, ill or not) is probably around 60%.   Amusingly, I met up in Kanazawa with a friend from the UK, she arrived ill, and was not wearing a mask.  As Covid 19 was literally just breaking in China, she and we were not wearing masks, and simply assumed she had a common cough/cold.   Anyway, upon returning to the UK, me and the missus also felt like death (like nothing i've experienced before) and are pretty sure we've had it.     

In Japan,  people wear masks as concern for the public around them, it's not required, nobody has demand they do it, they also don't drop litter on the floor as a consideration, crime is almost at zero, and they have been very successful at controlling Covid in the general populous.  

I have a feeling you would probably hate Japan Ray, (I don't know maybe you've been?) A sense of group compliance would probably drive you insane.  But we all have compliance Ray, and compliance is useful, trust me if you've ever driven a car in Saudi Arabia, you would thank the lord that there is a rule of the road in the US, that (to some degree) doesn't make you feel as if you're going to die every 5 seconds. 

If wearing a mask should be optional Ray, what other rules that have been adopted into accepted behaviour (in the US) should be revisited?   Speed limits? traffic lights?  asbestos regulations? Food standards?.   I think we are a great deal more compliant than many of us like to think, it's just become political, and I think thats what people don't like.

[Ken Gargett]

20 minutes ago, 99call said:

If wearing a mask should be optional Ray, what other rules that have been adopted into accepted behaviour (in the US) should be revisited?   Speed limits? traffic lights?  asbestos regulations? Food standards?.   I think we are a great deal more compliant than many of us like to think, it's just become political, and I think thats what people don't like.

this echoes exactly what i was trying to say. 

[rcarlson]

3 hours ago, 99call said:

Reading quite a lot of posts coming from across the pond, one thing that constantly has me scratching my head is the obsession with freedom. 

Thank God.  

3 hours ago, 99call said:

If wearing a mask should be optional Ray, what other rules that have been adopted into accepted behaviour (in the US) should be revisited?   Speed limits? traffic lights?  asbestos regulations? Food standards?.   I think we are a great deal more compliant than many of us like to think, it's just become political, and I think thats what people don't like.

3 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

this echoes exactly what i was trying to say. 

And here we are on a Cuban cigar blog and other analogies didn't come to mind. 

But yes, it has become political, as it always does. 

Why it seems like only yesterday that speed limits were increased from federal standards in many states, the unintended consequences of banning DDT revealed, the efficacy of certain drugs to treat Covid at the center of political debate finally accepted or rejected, deeply flawed modeling forming the basis for drastic regulation abandoned . . . 

I'd be shocked if you guys adhered to speed limits without the risk of getting caught and fined, and somewhere an old lady that you passed shaking her fist at you.  

Perhaps the natural tendency to vilify dissent from perceived consensus needs some reevaluation of its own.         

 

[Capt. Corona]

@99call Your post makes to much common sense.  Half the people reading it won't understand it.