maduro ........are you sold or not.

[El Presidente]

 

When the Cohiba maduro 5 line was launched in 2007, I wasn't sure that it would float/sell.  They had no flavour resemblance to Cohiba as we knew it but they certainly appealed to the chocoholics palate. Old schoolers were generally appalled. New purchasers picked them up in droves. 

After the initial sales onslaught, the past decade it has been "steady" in terms of sales. Well you could say that about the Genio's and the Secreto. The Magicos has struggled to gain traction (and yet many consider it the better one of the three). 

I thought that the maduro extension was just a toe dip in the ocean. I was bloody surprised when I heard the  of the Partagas Maduro program in 2014. This was no longer a toe in the water by Habanos but obviously a full strategy. 

Earlier this year I was told of a similar roll out strategy for Upmann. 

Deep breaths....cool heads. Let's analyse this. 

From my perspective the maduro lines cannot be rivers of gold as the sales are not stratospheric by any means.  I can't see a day when they will be. As high ROI line extensions, perhaps, but the continued rollout of Partagas and the consideration of Upmann has me scratching my head a little.  They are obviously seeing something that I can't (not the first time and in retrospect they have usually been proven right). 

Now I would venture to say that FOH is not the traditional HSA market for new product. 

However, from posts you would believe that people who prefer dark or light wrappers are split evenly 1:1.  It is actually around 8:2 in sales.

I shed tears with my long and skinny brethren about the demise of choice in this realm. Reality: you still can't give a long and skinny away in commercial numbers. 

Jawbreakers ....we all hate jawbreakers and can't curse HSA enough (I am first in line here) and FOH is full of such posts.   Reality: Members can't get enough of them 

So.....back to Maduro

Has HSA got it right?

All bravado aside, are they a guilty pleasure? do you enjoy one from time to time? are you a maddy fan and if so what is it that you enjoy about them?

For instance, would you pick a great Partagas  Maddy number 1 over a great Partagas D4?  THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IF YOU WOULD!

Fill me in. HSA obviously believes that enough of you will. These are not Monte Opens developed for Duty Free airport outlets. These are serious cigars at serious prices. 

I suspect they have got it right. Hell, i thought the Talisman was going to be a stretch 

 

 

[Wilzc]

The Secretos over a Siglo I or Siglo II any time of day!!!

Medio Siglo over a Magicos most of the time

 

 

 

[SMQQKIN]

Glad HSA offers Cohiba & Partagas maduros for those that like them. Curious if they appeal to smokers that are more open to NCs & appreciate the Cohiba band? I have had quite a few genio's & secreto's over the years & have a box of each in my humidor. IMHO they are ok but not worthy of the Cohiba premium price. The blend just doesn't meet my taste expectations & for the $$$ would rather have other Cohiba offerings.  Construction has not been an issue. I didn't care for the couple Partagas maduros singles I've had but they were quite young. I would take a dark oily wrapper D4 over a Partagas maduro #1 100% of the time.

[MrGlass]

With the number of non-Cuban maduro options available, there are clearly a few people that enjoy these.  So it does make sense for HSA to offer at least some maduro lines of their own, even if they don't move in huge numbers, as otherwise they are giving people looking for these no option than to spend their money on non-Cuban cigars.  But it always seemed odd to me that their three maduro offerings all sat under the Cohiba brand - surely there would be some people that would refuse to buy these out of principle (probably not many given Cohiba's popularity, but definitely some).  I have never bothered with them simply because of the premium they command as a Cohiba.

[Islandboy]

I have to admit I haven’t tried a Cuban maduro, mainly because I burned out on them when I was only smoking NC’s. I went through a phase of collecting and smoking only maduro NC’s, but my tastes evolved pretty quickly. These days, the occasional NC maduro I pull from the archives seems to hit my senses like a blunt object. If the Cuban maduros suffer from a similar loss of finesse, then no thanks. 

[Lotusguy]

I can’t stand the Cohiba Maduro 5 line.

 

I love the Partagas Maduro 1 and will definitely try the new vitolas. Generally, I don’t like Partagas much and these certainly don’t taste like other Partagas to me - which is a good thing in my book. I’ve been through three boxes of Maduro 1 so far. Funny thing is that I generally don’t like the LE and other dark wrappers otherwise.

 

So, for my taste, it’s still a 75% miss with only one of the 4 released Maduros palatable.

[GasGuy82]

I disagree with one point El Prez. You say the reality is everyone here loves the fatties. Whenever you put up Fundy’s, Lanceros, Especials, Montecarlos, 898’s etc, they are the first to sell out. Reality is, we see very few of those compared to the behemoths.  In addition, with the exception of the LGC 4 and Montecarlos, those are all premium cigars with a premium price.

People can only buy what is being sold with the great majority of those cigars are larger RG. This may be rambling, but with the discontinuations and new releases, HSA is leading the buying public where they want them to go. People here are cigar smokers first and foremost and as favorites are discontinued, they are left with a choice to adapt or get out of the game. I truly believe this is a long term plan to bring HSAs offerings in line with the N.C. market and compete head to head for the part of the market they don’t yet have. In addition, if you are going to charge more for your product, you have to make the consumer think they are getting more for their money ie larger cigars. Never mind that much of these larger cigars are just filler (literally).

Like I said, my ramblings may make no sense, but I think there is more here than meets the eye. We make fun of HSA, but remember, Altadis owns 50% of HSA and those guys are not dummies.

[El Presidente]

Just now, GasGuy82 said:

I disagree with one point El Prez. You say the reality is everyone here loves the fatties. Whenever you put up Fundy’s, Lanceros, Especials, Montecarlos, 898’s etc, they are the first to sell out. Reality is, we see very few of those compared to the behemoths.  In addition, with the exception of the LGC 4 and Montecarlos, those are all premium cigars with a premium price.

 

To be fair, generally there are 10 fatties for every skinny on offer through 24:24.  

Through the carts day to day is probably a fairer representation. Skinnies just move far slower. 

 

 

[GasGuy82]

1 minute ago, El Presidente said:

To be fair, generally there are 10 fatties for every skinny... 

 

 

Just like real life eh? ?

[El Presidente]

Just now, GasGuy82 said:

Just like real life eh? ?

[dvickery]

Cohiba maduros may be maduros but they are not cohiba ... you could never convince me they are cohiba . Alas hsa can put any name they want on any box they want .

derrek

[JohnS]

In regards to the question, "has HSA got it right?" I would say that in this instance, yes, they do.

My own view of Maduro Habanos cigars is that they're useful for a change of pace, but I don't reach for them usually or have them in my rotation. Even then, when it comes to Cohiba Maduros, I prefer 7 to 10 years on them for my liking. I haven't tried the Partagas Maduro No.1 (a 52 rg x 130 mm Robusto yet).

If the introduction of the Partagas Maduro No.1 was not successful for Habanos S.A, then why bring out the soon to be released Partagas Maduro No.2 (a 55rg x 120 mm Petit Pyramid) and a Partagas Maduro No.3 (a 50 rg x 145 mm Robusto Extra)?

The 7 global brands (Cohiba, Montecristo, Romeo y Julieta, H.Upmann, Partagas, Hoyo de Monterrey and Jose L. Piedra) probably account for 80 to 85% of worldwide sales. (I wonder what percentage of these marcas account for your sales, Rob?) I think the H.Upmann flavour profile would be the best blend to introduce in a Maduro line from these marcas. Habanos S.A is unlikely to introduce a Maduro line amongst the other 20 marcas due to less sales and publicity (I hate to say it, but only we diehards lament the deletion of a cigar like the Saint Luis Rey Serie A) and I feel H.Upmann would suit a Maduro.

[99call]

My only experience is with the Party Maduro No 1, and although it has some positive attributes, I found it's profile pretty worrying, if thats the flavour of things to come. 

The thing I love about Cuban cigars, is the twang, it's the overlapping and constantly vying sweet and savoury, the creaminess and the spice. The fact that the smoking of them somehow is evocative of their origin. 

They are for me, the cigar Ronald McDonald would make. He' is given the secret recipe of Partagas i.e red pepper, savoury cream, butter, sourdough, chocolate, a touch of leather, earth and salt. Ronald then proceeds to scratch out anything he doesn't think kids would like, and leaves in Chocolate. 

I don't want to be over critical, as they were enjoyable for what they were, the point is, is that it's a regression in blending as to what HSA has to offer, not a progression. 

If a change of pace is sought, I think HSA should make a little wooden box called 'Amuse-Bouche', a selection pack in the Cohiba short vitola, but covering 10 marcas in a 50pack. All little bursts of un-complex flavours. It would be a great gift, a great entrance into CC's for a would be enthusiast. and the proper place for slightly one dimensional blending. but a lot of work and will of course never happen

 

 

[ayepatz]

As I don’t own a single Maduro, I’m obviously not sold.

I really don’t enjoy NCs, and it seems an obvious marketing move by HSA to muscle in on a very popular NC cigar market.

But, to me, they’re not properly representative of Cuban cigars.

It’s like Chateau Lafite putting out a fruit bomb Shiraz, or even a rosé. Putting their name on the label would allow them to charge a fortune for it, but...

Cohiba Maduro are simply not Cohiba, to me.

Partagas Maduro is simply not Partagas, to me.

H. Upmann Maduro? I won’t hold my breath.

Also, Maduros look like dog turds. ?

[99call]

5 minutes ago, ayepatz said:

Also, Maduros look like dog turds. ?

Unless they've been stored in Greece, after a while in the sun, they go white

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, JohnS said:

My own view of Maduro Habanos cigars is that they're useful for a change of pace, 

I have always thought of them as HSA 's  answer to Padron Anniversary 1926/64  maddies. 

Where on the rare occasion that  I would smoke a maddy Padron Anniversary for a change of pace, I would now smoke a Genios or Padron number 1.  

Maybe that is what they were seeking all along. 

[David88]

I have tried the partagas and secretos maduros. I don’t mind them but they didn’t do enough to work their way into my regular rotation, particularly considering the price premium for both. I can see them being a decent change of pace/dessert cigar though.

I would actually quite like to see Maduro versions of regular production. It would allow you to see the value (or not) of the Maduro wrapper. I would be interested in an upmann Maduro, but give me a Maduro magnum 46 rather than a new blend and size. They remind me a bit of the anejados in this respect. Yes they’re Maduro/aged, but what impact has that actually had to deserve the premium it commands? 

[Fugu]

6 hours ago, El Presidente said:

They are obviously seeing something that I can't (not the first time and in retrospect they have usually been proven right).

You could, but it shows you are not thinking along such lines. And that's speaking much in your favor.

I'll just put it this way, for a maduro, a 'different' wrapper type is being used. That widens the options for general production output - high gain in ROI or not -, under limited-wrapper conditions you got a winner.... cf. limitadas....

(P.S. excellent post!)

 

[Fugu]

4 hours ago, GasGuy82 said:

I disagree with one point El Prez. You say the reality is everyone here loves the fatties. Whenever you put up Fundy’s, Lanceros, Especials, Montecarlos, 898’s etc, they are the first to sell out. Reality is, we see very few of those compared to the behemoths.  In addition, with the exception of the LGC 4 and Montecarlos, those are all premium cigars with a premium price.

People can only buy what is being sold with the great majority of those cigars are larger RG. This may be rambling, but with the discontinuations and new releases, HSA is leading the buying public where they want them to go. People here are cigar smokers first and foremost and as favorites are discontinued, they are left with a choice to adapt or get out of the game. I truly believe this is a long term plan to bring HSAs offerings in line with the N.C. market and compete head to head for the part of the market they don’t yet have. In addition, if you are going to charge more for your product, you have to make the consumer think they are getting more for their money ie larger cigars. Never mind that much of these larger cigars are just filler (literally).

Like I said, my ramblings may make no sense, but I think there is more here than meets the eye. We make fun of HSA, but remember, Altadis owns 50% of HSA and those guys are not dummies.

Sound analysis I am much in agreement with. Just like Piggy @PigFish tends to say - "...then, let them eat cake"....

[anacostiakat]

Not a fan.  l

Definitely a light wrapper guy.  

[RijkdeGooier]

Sorry but to me the maduros are not a match for the NC lines of Padron and Fuentes. 

[PrairieSmoke]

Never smoked a Cuban Maduro, but I’ve smoked loads of NC Maduro. I had no intention of going after any, but this thread is making me curious to try them just for sake of comparison


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[dicko]

I prefer lighter cuban cigars (mind you I actually really enjoy maduro Nicaraguan on occasion) and I have not purchased any maduro range cubans. I have tried a few from gifts or samplers but they didn't blow me away. Maybe a montecristo maduro would be nice but Im not interested in jacked up prices on them. 

 

If they offered some of the popular reg production favourites in a maduro as an alternative (such as what Padron does in most lines) then they might be onto a winner. Imagine a monte PE in maduro they would kill it. 

 

From a business perspective it makes sense to cover off this niche area. 

[BrightonCorgi]

I really like the Cohiba Maduro line, but have never bought box.

[zeedubbya]

I enjoy Secretos and Genios, but I don’t care for the Magicos. While they aren’t traditional Cohiba they are still good cigars. The Partagas Maduro 1 is very tasty too, but I would still take a good D4 over them. With this said I they are occasional cigars for me. I would never make them part of a regular rotation. To me it’s more digging through the humidor, find a box of Genios and say, oh yeah these—I’ll smoke this. They just don’t jump to mind when I’m looking for a cigar to smoke. So I guess they just aren’t that memorable. Passable, a nice change of pace, and sometimes really really good. Would I be sad to see them go? Not really. Would I buy some Upmann Maduros—of course I would.

On the subject of Cuban Maduros vs NC Maduros in my opinion they aren’t achieving the same ends. I like Padrón Maduros over the Natural, by a long shot. To my taste Maduro NC’s are sweeter and more refined. I never understood people saying Maduro cigars were stronger—I don’t find this to be true at all. Quite the opposite.


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