Usama Bin Landen Dead

[sandholm]

To honor this man in any form, in life, or in death is a crime. He was not an honorable foe but a coward who would hide behind his own wife, a religion, and use women and children as military weapons. If his religion is an honorable one, those who believe as he does should reject him and his actions as those of a coward.

I have no such inhibitions condemning my fellow Christians or countrymen for their wrong doing. I expect nothing other than the same impartial behavior from those whom believe in different Gods or live under different governments. This man was entitled no honor at all. We have displayed to our enemies again that while our resolve may be intact, our ideological and even moral positions are weak and subservient to theirs. Better to say nothing of his demise then to display to our enemies that we considered him worthy of an honorable funeral. JMHO.

Hopefully someone with some backbone shoved a pickled pigs foot up his ass before sending him off! -Piggy

Its not his honor, its YOUR honor. As a former soldier and later officer we would never disrespect any fallen man/solder/terroris, not because his honor, but for ours, our aim were to stand above their low limit of honor. Thats how you win, if you get draged down to there level you will only escalate the conflict. Its also nice that your are willing to dishonor his corps in order to satisfy your own blood thirst, and by doing so putting every solder and civilian working in Iraq or Afghanistan, or in any other part of the world in danger.

cheers

Edit: English is not my first language...

[Puros Y Vino]

Its not his honor, its YOUR honor. As a former soldier and later officer we would never disrespect any fallen man/solder/terroris, not because his honor, but for ours, our aim were to stand above their low limit of honor. Thats how you win, if you get draged down to there level you will only escalate the conflict. So its nice that your are willing to dishonor his corps and by that putting every solder and civilian working in Iraq or Afghanistan, or in any other part of the world.

Well put. I know it may come off as a cliche', but the notions above speak true to "not becoming the thing you hate".

[Ken Gargett]

Its not his honor, its YOUR honor. As a former soldier and later officer we would never disrespect any fallen man/solder/terroris, not because his honor, but for ours, our aim were to stand above their low limit of honor. Thats how you win, if you get draged down to there level you will only escalate the conflict. Its also nice that your are willing to dishonor his corps in order to satisfy your own blood thirst, and by doing so putting every solder and civilian working in Iraq or Afghanistan, or in any other part of the world in danger.

cheers

Edit: English is not my first language...

agree.

mind you, with the stories abounding about one of his wives being used as a human shield, i would not be above putting out the info that it was bin laden himself using her as a shield. true or not.

anyone wishing to claim eyewitness status to the contrary rather puts his hand up for the next raid.

[sandholm]

agree.

mind you, with the stories abounding about one of his wives being used as a human shield, i would not be above putting out the info that it was bin laden himself using her as a shield. true or not.

anyone wishing to claim eyewitness status to the contrary rather puts his hand up for the next raid.

Well, yes, but again I dont argue that he has honor. Personal I am quite happy he is gone, i would have liked if he had stood trial and convicted for his crimes, but better dead then trying to commit more attacks.

When it comes to the human shield I am a bit confused.... The report also says that he engaged in combat with the soldiers. I personal have never used a human shield, but shooting a Kalashnikov (which he loved) is not really a easy task. Because either he held the gun with ONE hand and his human shield with the other, the problem is that you cant really use a Kalashnikov with one hand. So that leaves us the possibility that he used both his hands, but then he cant hold the wife as a human shield. So either she was just there in the bed, soldiers reported that they fired and killed her also and then the "human shield" was just as an excuse/explanation/propaganda. A more logical explanation would be that she tried (in some weird way) to protect him while he was shooting, in which case we cant really talke about a human shield, if she is just there in his bedroom as his wife.

So, the comment about the human shield dose really make sense if the report also states that he engaged the soldiers....

American shooting AK47 with one hand,

[anacostiakat]

Well, I am having a celebratory Behike 54 and some vino.

Here is to Seal Team Six, the CIA and all those that contributed.

[Ken Gargett]

Well, yes, but again I dont argue that he has honor. Personal I am quite happy he is gone, i would have liked if he had stood trial and convicted for his crimes, but better dead then trying to commit more attacks.

When it comes to the human shield I am a bit confused.... The report also says that he engaged in combat with the soldiers. I personal have never used a human shield, but shooting a Kalashnikov (which he loved) is not really a easy task. Because either he held the gun with ONE hand and his human shield with the other, the problem is that you cant really use a Kalashnikov with one hand. So that leaves us the possibility that he used both his hands, but then he cant hold the wife as a human shield. So either she was just there in the bed, soldiers reported that they fired and killed her also and then the "human shield" was just as an excuse/explanation/propaganda. A more logical explanation would be that she tried (in some weird way) to protect him while he was shooting, in which case we cant really talke about a human shield, if she is just there in his bedroom as his wife.

So, the comment about the human shield dose really make sense if the report also states that he engaged the soldiers....

American shooting AK47 with one hand,

all i have seen are reports that a woman was killed while being used as a human shield and that the woman was bin laden's wife. but a friend who has worked extensively with the pentagon says that there are reports that it was him using her as a shield.

i have no more idea than that. i just like the idea that it was him.

[Orion21]

I think it is great. A force of our Special Operators took out 22 people in less than 40 minutes in a close quarters battle without sustaining a single casualty. Then we quietly double tap Public Enemy #1 twice in the side of the head, fly him to an aircraft carrier where we verify his identity. Finally, we calmly wash his dead corpse, perform all the required rituals prescribed by his religion and dump his ass in the ocean -- never to be seen again.

If that is not a powerful message I do not know what is. That is frighteningly efficient and cold blooded. I almost feel bad for whomever comes next.

"By the cigars they smoke, and the composers they love, ye shall know the texture of men's souls."

-John Galsworthy

[PigFish]

Its not his honor, its YOUR honor. As a former soldier and later officer we would never disrespect any fallen man/solder/terroris, not because his honor, but for ours, our aim were to stand above their low limit of honor. Thats how you win, if you get draged down to there level you will only escalate the conflict. Its also nice that your are willing to dishonor his corps in order to satisfy your own blood thirst, and by doing so putting every solder and civilian working in Iraq or Afghanistan, or in any other part of the world in danger.

cheers

Edit: English is not my first language...

... anyone hear the term handgun before? I don't really know the facts... I don't care!

We agree to disagree. I was not honored by subscribing to his religious faith, the same faith he used as a reason to attack persons of a different faith, people like me, in the first place. You don't win by turning the other cheek. You win by kicking ass!

Our soldiers are not safer cause he was killed and his corps treated honorably. His followers look at me and my countrymen as the enemy, and we have another black mark against us for killing their leader. It is plain and simple as that. While we may be safer for killing him, we are no safer by treating his corps honorably. They are not going to give the next serviceman they capture a break because we honored his religion buy a ceremony at sea. I think this line of thinking, the tolerance for scumbags and the enemies of religious freedom has gotten us here in the first place.

I don't care who you worship and respect your right to do so. I have tolerance for those wishing to share the benefits of any religious belief with me as a gift of their faith in goodwill. I wish to share my faith with those as a gift without force and I see no difference between any of us in that respect. I have no such respect for those people who believe in theocracies which empower them via a proxy for their God to slay me for being an infidel because I believe differently. This is an area where I see tolerance cross over into stupidity.

Neither my countrymen, my servicemen nor my clergymen will be viewed better by this engagement. We did what was right for us in killing the bastard and we should have ground him up and fed a piece of him to some farmers hogs every time his countrymen murders another in the name of his God!!! Let the enemies of religious freedom know that they will be treated the same way they treat us when they behead someone and drag them around behind a truck. Get caught by us and you will be fed to the pigs. If that threatens their passage to the thereafter, perhaps we can use their own theocracy against them for once. There is no proof that the enemies of religious freedom respect us more for our honor of their religion. I believe that they see this holy war as the will and strength of individual Gods where theirs will be triumphant. I did not declare this a jihad; they did. I don't wish to see honorable men and women in harms way to show them how nice we can be. I just as soon kick their asses and bring our men and women home where they should be. I don't wish to convince them or convert them. But if my God works though my military and that is what they believe I just as soon show them what the wrath of God is and get it over with.

I don't wish to be "better" than them! We are all dust in the end. I wish to beat them so that I can be left to worship my own God freely and peacefully!

I wish for you to retract your personal statement regarding an accusation of "blood thirst." I too can get personal but prefer to be civil to other members here and abide by the rules! -Piggy

[Ken Gargett]

ray, i think you are completely wrong.

kick arse absolutely. shoot every single one of the terrorists and those supporting them. absolutely. i could not be more delighted than if every single one of them was killed. and the more painfully the better.

but think about someone on the edge. what is more likely to turn him into the next terrorist? desecrating his religion or treating it with respect? that is not honouring bin laden. he is dead. fishfood. acting in a manner as they did with the body was correct. and good on them for doing so. bin laden will be condemned forever, and deservedly so. don't turn him into the next che.

surely it is infinitely better, and hence more likely to save lives down the track, if that person on the edge sees the west acting in that manner than like brainless violent thugs?

there was a school of thought that timothy mcveigh had some perverted view of christianity that was in some way part of why he killed so many in oklahoma. others say no way because a christian could never act that way. i'm sure it is a much more complex argument than this but no doubt there are plenty of decent muslims who would be as horrified to think of bin laden representing their religion as christians would of mcveigh. should non christians who lost loved ones in that act go around pissing on the cross so no christian ever does that again?

if we follow your reasoning then all muslims are as guilty as bin laden. think of the number of catholic and anglican priests who have abused children. i would like to have seen the lot of them shot, but as repulsed by the actions of these alleged 'men of christianity' as i am, i don't immediately assume that all christians are kiddyfiddlers.

the fundamental lunatic fringe of any religion is to be abhorred (personally, i have no doubt that the world would be far better off without any religion). but no one should assume that all muslims either supported bin laden or believe that his actions truly represent islam. i've had a few digs at religion in other threads over time but have always acknowledged that there are some very good people doing good works in the name of religion - not only christianity.

again, i know it is not quite the same, and others will know far more about this than i ever will, but i was always led to believe that one of the reasons for the rise of hitler and the nazis was the way that the germans were ground under the heel after the first world war. again, far more simplistic than the reality, but if a better peace had been negotiated then perhaps millions of lives would have been saved 20 years later. if we grind all muslims, we'll have a thousand bin ladens to deal with.

[White]

how about drowning him in pigs blood, that was my idea for him

[smpf67]

We Will Never Quit! God Bless America, and It's awesome Allies ( Great Britain and Australia!), for all their help and sacrifice(the only one's we can trust!).

[Murri]

Just reported that the body has already been buried at sea, and islamic tradition was followed.

Just to clarify this, apparently there are two ways for an Islamic burial.

One is for a martyr and one for a common person.

He was not given a martyr's burial. ( A parting shot so to speak ?)

Description of each was given on a local news channel.

He was a terrible person and the world is better without him.

Well done.

[First Lady]

There was a good comment on local radio this morning... they hoped that burying him at sea was like the Pied Piper and that all the followers of him would jump on the ocean and drown... I thought is was a good comment

[Ken Gargett]

There was a good comment on local radio this morning... they hoped that burying him at sea was like the Pied Piper and that all the followers of him would jump on the ocean and drown... I thought is was a good comment

i did hear that half a dozen irishmen drowned while dancing on his grave.

And in other news, Chuck Norris returns from vacationing in Pakistan...........

[LeafLover]

Good day for all the victimized by this man's lunacy.

I was thinking today what scary **** it must be for a whole country, much less an alliance of countries, after your ass.

I sure would hate to be the dictator of Libya right now.

[PigFish]

ray, i think you are completely wrong.

kick arse absolutely. shoot every single one of the terrorists and those supporting them. absolutely. i could not be more delighted than if every single one of them was killed. and the more painfully the better.

but think about someone on the edge. what is more likely to turn him into the next terrorist? desecrating his religion or treating it with respect? that is not honouring bin laden. he is dead. fishfood. acting in a manner as they did with the body was correct. and good on them for doing so. bin laden will be condemned forever, and deservedly so. don't turn him into the next che.

surely it is infinitely better, and hence more likely to save lives down the track, if that person on the edge sees the west acting in that manner than like brainless violent thugs?

there was a school of thought that timothy mcveigh had some perverted view of christianity that was in some way part of why he killed so many in oklahoma. others say no way because a christian could never act that way. i'm sure it is a much more complex argument than this but no doubt there are plenty of decent muslims who would be as horrified to think of bin laden representing their religion as christians would of mcveigh. should non christians who lost loved ones in that act go around pissing on the cross so no christian ever does that again?

if we follow your reasoning then all muslims are as guilty as bin laden. think of the number of catholic and anglican priests who have abused children. i would like to have seen the lot of them shot, but as repulsed by the actions of these alleged 'men of christianity' as i am, i don't immediately assume that all christians are kiddyfiddlers.

the fundamental lunatic fringe of any religion is to be abhorred (personally, i have no doubt that the world would be far better off without any religion). but no one should assume that all muslims either supported bin laden or believe that his actions truly represent islam. i've had a few digs at religion in other threads over time but have always acknowledged that there are some very good people doing good works in the name of religion - not only christianity.

again, i know it is not quite the same, and others will know far more about this than i ever will, but i was always led to believe that one of the reasons for the rise of hitler and the nazis was the way that the germans were ground under the heel after the first world war. again, far more simplistic than the reality, but if a better peace had been negotiated then perhaps millions of lives would have been saved 20 years later. if we grind all muslims, we'll have a thousand bin ladens to deal with.

My friend, with no offense intended this shows me that you did not read what I wrote and you misunderstand both Christianity and likely Islam as well. While I am not here to condemn Islam, Christians, Cultists, Atheists, Deists, Druids ad-nausium, I am willing to understand that evil men are evil men and they come in all shapes and sizes. They believe in all sorts of Gods and afterlives. Many awful people have claimed to be and are/or were Christians. Just because I am a Christian does not mean "my people" are exempt from evil.

Generally we believe that we are all sinners in Gods eyes and in some way God or Jesus absolves us from our sins. Each religion may have "procedures" and "practices" that may mix things up a bit, but for all intents and purposes that is what we believe. Generally, God's work is the spreading of the word of God; bringing the flock to the Shepard, so to speak. It is not limited to that of course. While I see God as generally benevolent to mankind, I see him as egotistic and a bad ass! I don't want to cross him (no pun intended) but I sin... daily!

My belief in freedom is that it emanates from God. In this way it is immune to human meddling in "ideal" conditions. The right to worship God or false Gods is then a God given right. God made me free... To be made in his image means free (to me). To deny me my God given rights is not only against the rules that my nation was founded on, it denies my God. While that means that I may use my God given talents on earth to defend my beliefs and my freedom, I do this in my own name... not in Gods name. This is the domain of men and while God may be a guide to me, as I interpret his word, I have no right to deny the God given rights of other in his name. I have no right then to persecute Muslims, Athiests or anyone else for that matter. But I do have the right to preserve my life and my beliefs. Perhaps I don't speak for all Christians, but this is how I see it. I don't go about denying the rights of Muslims because my belief in God actually prevents it. I see a right and wrong and order in the world, no matter how perverse it may seem to another. While it "may" be Gods will that I bring him followers, it is a sin to do it at the point of a dagger!

I do not claim to be a student of Islam. But I do see that there is something in the religion... and I can find quotes if you believe it necessary for the argument that persuades some to believe that you and I are the incarnation of Satan. We are that because we have not embraced Islam. I am not going to claim that I know the percentage of people who believe this. I am not willing to pre-judge Islam as a whole, but I am willing to recognize it by watching respected Muslim clerics call the West the Great Satan and call for our demise. Open your eyes mate!!! Some of these folks are hell bent on doing you harm. Some believe in the 12th Imam and that they can hasten his arrival by bringing about the end of times by these acts of violence and chaos. Some of these guys, leaders of countries and clarics are calling for the destruction of Israel and their western supporters. That mean us mate.

Now if you prefer to turn your back on people who confess their desires to kill us in their media, day in and day out that is up to you. But if you think that giving them "due respect" is going to stop their hate or desires, I think you are misunderstanding your foe. These folks are motivated by their clerics and by their desire to please their God by their self sacrifice and in our destruction. I don't believe in the over-the-edge philosophy you preach. These people are taught their God insists on our demise. They mistreat other humans, women and commit extreme acts of violence to other Muslims as well. These are not reasonable people as you would assume.

Some people just won't believe beyond the western way of thinking. Then there are those such as myself who seem to find foes around every corner. I am often accused of chsing windmills, looking for foes. But can you deny that when the Soviets proclaimed they were going to see to the demise of the west that they meant it? Would you deny that the Imperialist Japanese military attacked the US at Pearl Harbor? Would you deny that Hitler killed untold numbers of Jews, Gypsies and others? Many Islamic leaders deny the holocaust, did you know that? I am simply willing to take them at their word that this is a holy war where Allah will prevail. Me, Ray, Piggy... well I did not make them strap a bomb to the wife and send her into a crowded bus terminal in Israel. I am not buying the "politically correct" way to war with radical Islamics argument. If they are motivated by God then it is about time they go meet him! And if they fear doing acts at Mr. Piggy's house because he will chop up the survivors and feed them to the swine and that is what it takes to beat them... well, I am willing to play to their fears. This is a holy war waged by theocratic madmen. We in the west are all guilty of being infidels and the penalty is death. Watch one of their clerics speak sometime. I don't support the genocide or distruction of Islam, not at all. That is what makes me different; better. A double tap to the sternum and a hot bath is not why. The respect of religious freedom, theirs, mine and ours is why. If they want to see whose God is stronger, well I guess Mr. Bin Laden just found out. Watching their leader get fed to the hogs is bound to convince a few of them they don't want to **** with us cause simply killing Osama just ain't gonna' do it! He is now in paradise. If feeding him to the pigs cancels his "E" ticket... well, I am in favor of it.

I gotta' admit mate that it is a little confusing when you say, "blow their brains out but giv'em a good wash and wrap them in linen when you are done!" You really think that is gonna' make a difference? I guess that makes you a better Christian than me!

Cheers mate. -Ray

[Ken Gargett]

My friend, with no offense intended this shows me that you did not read what I wrote and you misunderstand both Christianity and likely Islam as well. While I am not here to condemn Islam, Christians, Cultists, Atheists, Deists, Druids ad-nausium, I am willing to understand that evil men are evil men and they come in all shapes and sizes. They believe in all sorts of Gods and afterlives. Many awful people have claimed to be and are/or were Christians. Just because I am a Christian does not mean "my people" are exempt from evil.

Generally we believe that we are all sinners in Gods eyes and in some way God or Jesus absolves us from our sins. Each religion may have "procedures" and "practices" that may mix things up a bit, but for all intents and purposes that is what we believe. Generally, God's work is the spreading of the word of God; bringing the flock to the Shepard, so to speak. It is not limited to that of course. While I see God as generally benevolent to mankind, I see him as egotistic and a bad ass! I don't want to cross him (no pun intended) but I sin... daily!

My belief in freedom is that it emanates from God. In this way it is immune to human meddling in "ideal" conditions. The right to worship God or false Gods is then a God given right. God made me free... To be made in his image means free (to me). To deny me my God given rights is not only against the rules that my nation was founded on, it denies my God. While that means that I may use my God given talents on earth to defend my beliefs and my freedom, I do this in my own name... not in Gods name. This is the domain of men and while God may be a guide to me, as I interpret his word, I have no right to deny the God given rights of other in his name. I have no right then to persecute Muslims, Athiests or anyone else for that matter. But I do have the right to preserve my life and my beliefs. Perhaps I don't speak for all Christians, but this is how I see it. I don't go about denying the rights of Muslims because my belief in God actually prevents it. I see a right and wrong and order in the world, no matter how perverse it may seem to another. While it "may" be Gods will that I bring him followers, it is a sin to do it at the point of a dagger!

I do not claim to be a student of Islam. But I do see that there is something in the religion... and I can find quotes if you believe it necessary for the argument that persuades some to believe that you and I are the incarnation of Satan. We are that because we have not embraced Islam. I am not going to claim that I know the percentage of people who believe this. I am not willing to pre-judge Islam as a whole, but I am willing to recognize it by watching respected Muslim clerics call the West the Great Satan and call for our demise. Open your eyes mate!!! Some of these folks are hell bent on doing you harm. Some believe in the 12th Imam and that they can hasten his arrival by bringing about the end of times by these acts of violence and chaos. Some of these guys, leaders of countries and clarics are calling for the destruction of Israel and their western supporters. That mean us mate.

Now if you prefer to turn your back on people who confess their desires to kill us in their media, day in and day out that is up to you. But if you think that giving them "due respect" is going to stop their hate or desires, I think you are misunderstanding your foe. These folks are motivated by their clerics and by their desire to please their God by their self sacrifice and in our destruction. I don't believe in the over-the-edge philosophy you preach. These people are taught their God insists on our demise. They mistreat other humans, women and commit extreme acts of violence to other Muslims as well. These are not reasonable people as you would assume.

Some people just won't believe beyond the western way of thinking. Then there are those such as myself who seem to find foes around every corner. I am often accused of chsing windmills, looking for foes. But can you deny that when the Soviets proclaimed they were going to see to the demise of the west that they meant it? Would you deny that the Imperialist Japanese military attacked the US at Pearl Harbor? Would you deny that Hitler killed untold numbers of Jews, Gypsies and others? Many Islamic leaders deny the holocaust, did you know that? I am simply willing to take them at their word that this is a holy war where Allah will prevail. Me, Ray, Piggy... well I did not make them strap a bomb to the wife and send her into a crowded bus terminal in Israel. I am not buying the "politically correct" way to war with radical Islamics argument. If they are motivated by God then it is about time they go meet him! And if they fear doing acts at Mr. Piggy's house because he will chop up the survivors and feed them to the swine and that is what it takes to beat them... well, I am willing to play to their fears. This is a holy war waged by theocratic madmen. We in the west are all guilty of being infidels and the penalty is death. Watch one of their clerics speak sometime. I don't support the genocide or distruction of Islam, not at all. That is what makes me different; better. A double tap to the sternum and a hot bath is not why. The respect of religious freedom, theirs, mine and ours is why. If they want to see whose God is stronger, well I guess Mr. Bin Laden just found out. Watching their leader get fed to the hogs is bound to convince a few of them they don't want to **** with us cause simply killing Osama just ain't gonna' do it! He is now in paradise. If feeding him to the pigs cancels his "E" ticket... well, I am in favor of it.

I gotta' admit mate that it is a little confusing when you say, "blow their brains out but giv'em a good wash and wrap them in linen when you are done!" You really think that is gonna' make a difference? I guess that makes you a better Christian than me!

Cheers mate. -Ray

ray, i suspect we won't agree on this but we may each be misinterpreting each other. and i am all too willing to admit that i lack a proper understanding of both islam or christianity. personally, i think both of them are a farce and that religion has been the cause of more killings and war and pain on this earth than anything else and i think we would be so much better off without it. but on that we are not going to agree and i am in no doubt i am in the minority on this board re that.

but i accept that religion is here to stay, at least for the forseeable future and i respect everyone's right to join whichever religion/cult/club/poker game or whatever provided they don't hurt others because of it. and we are as one on the belief in the right to freedom and to protect oneself, family, friends and country. my point was that i think that there will be far fewer deaths in the future if we act in a certain manner. desecrating a corpse is not that manner. even the corpse of such an evil bastard as bin laden.

those 'muslims' of which you speak are not the oners i am referring to. those you talk of, calling the west the great satan and so on - i agree with you. i have no problem if the whole lot get rounded up and put against a pock-marked wall and shot. the sooner the better. i am talking of a great many decent muslims. i do not consider the entire population of muslims "my foe" and if that is the state of world then it really is a tragedy and religion will have many more millions of deaths to add to its tally. certainly, there are many extremists and the sooner they are off looking under the rocks of hell for their 70 virgins the better. and they can take the lunatic christians, and hindu's, and jews, and atheists, and so on - as in the entire evil lot - with them.

as for quotes, ray, please! you want to take the bible literally? i would say god help us, but it may not be appropriate. is there a more violent tome than the old testament? it is no fairer to take the quoran literally than it is the bible. plenty of fairly scary quotes in that book.

it appears that you are effectively calling for a war to the death between christianity and islam. that is mindboggling to me. fire up the crusades! they went so well last time.

as for bin laden, to be honest, when he became an ex-bin laden, part of me would love to have seen his body dragged around every village in pakistan behind a truck, covered in pigshit, and every possible abomination one could think of done to him. but it just creates more hatred of the west. i'm not for a second suggesting we spend time and effort treating every terrorist casualty like that but bin laden was different. give them nothing, or as little as possible, to use as a rallying cry for their next generations and more soldiers will survive. less terrorists will come into being. it won't stop them but if it meant one less terrorist then it was worth it.

[PigFish]

... Dude, and shooting him in his home, his wife and his protectors did not piss people off??? -LOL Oh and that NATO strike on the son of the Marks brothers look alike there in Libya... All sins forgiven there I am sure!!! -LOL

Come on mate, I just got done writing over and over again that I believe in religious freedom and that includes the right to be Islamic. Whose religion is the right religion is above my pay grade. I have made my choice the rest is up to God.

Lastly mate; while religion may be a corrupt institution of mankind God is not responsible for the actions of those he set free. The Old Testament stuff, you are right, that is why it makes more sense to embrace him than it does to deny him! A little food for thought! On a more pleasant note however he is the creator of freedom and free will. We would never have known what it means to be free politically or religiously without an understanding of Christianity's God. Islam does not teach freedom. It is a theocracy teaching obedience and Islamic law. Freedom is contrary to Islam. The facts are, more Muslims die at the hands of other Muslims than Jews, Christians and other Westerners combined. I would like you to not dismiss that and think about it for a while. If rights are of man then another man is free to revoke them at any time. Without God the strongest man would be the leader of all men for better or worse. Worse is more likely! Rather than thinking about your hatred for pedophile priests for a moment think on why God given rights are superior to government granted rights and see if God, not religion, has some merit after all. If God only exists as a concept and through him the concept of unalienable rights was formed are we not better because of it? Replace God with the State and what do you get? Okay... I won't go there!

Bless you mate, despite your beliefs. Your friend. -Ray

[Ryan]

i did hear that half a dozen irishmen drowned while dancing on his grave.

Oi! That was only because they heard one of them was australian.

He was told there would be 72 sheep waiting for him.

[shrink]

He was told there would be 72 sheep waiting for him.

Rams, to be exact.

[Warren]

Oi! That was only because they heard one of them was australian.

He was told there would be 72 sheep waiting for him.

Now I think you have us confused with our brothers in New Zealand.

[Ryan]

Now I think you have us confused with our brothers in New Zealand.

What? Surely "The Sundowners" wasn't lying.

[thechenman]

Well, yes, but again I dont argue that he has honor. Personal I am quite happy he is gone, i would have liked if he had stood trial and convicted for his crimes, but better dead then trying to commit more attacks.

When it comes to the human shield I am a bit confused.... The report also says that he engaged in combat with the soldiers. I personal have never used a human shield, but shooting a Kalashnikov (which he loved) is not really a easy task. Because either he held the gun with ONE hand and his human shield with the other, the problem is that you cant really use a Kalashnikov with one hand. So that leaves us the possibility that he used both his hands, but then he cant hold the wife as a human shield. So either she was just there in the bed, soldiers reported that they fired and killed her also and then the "human shield" was just as an excuse/explanation/propaganda. A more logical explanation would be that she tried (in some weird way) to protect him while he was shooting, in which case we cant really talke about a human shield, if she is just there in his bedroom as his wife.

So, the comment about the human shield dose really make sense if the report also states that he engaged the soldiers....

American shooting AK47 with one hand,

sandholm...you are also speculating that he was in fact using an AK47 at the time. He could have engaged in the melee, depleted his magazine and not have another on hand to reload. I'm sure he does not walk around his compound 24/7 with a bandoleer of ammunition strapped to him. Still all speculation on my part as well. The only people who can truly know are the ones who were there.

[cigcars]

*In response to the observations about the Navy's SEALS...they ain't no joke. To just SURVIVE SEAL training, let alone becoming one full-fledged You gotta be some kinda Bad, harder than the average hard man. My hat and all hats off to ya'!

[mkz]

And in other news, Chuck Norris returns from vacationing in Pakistan...........

Don´t f**k with Chuck!