Cuban Cigars in the 90s vs Now with Cigar Expert Aaron Sigmond

[Jaks93]

Take what he says with a pinch of salt folks!

[Puros Y Vino]

The bit just past the 11 minute mark is often debated.  IMO he's not off.  I believe he is referencing the Punch Mantua.  Basically saying people were raving about it, but it doesn't taste like a Punch. He also mentioned how he was offered an RA but was told it doesn't taste like an RA. I think back to the retro green and white banded EL and RE's. I totally see what he means. There are some great cigars under a marca where the flavour profile just doesn't match. He then mentions that Cubans today, don't taste like the ones from the 90's. Technically he's right. The tobacco strains are different. I find that some RE's do not taste anything like the regular cigars in the lineup. The RA Extra EL from 2011. Very good cigar. Doesn't remind me of an RA. The Punch Mantua. LOVE IT. But not really a Punch. If I smoke a Punch Punch or DC, I taste "Punch". Taste is subjective OFC and there are so many factors at play.

He also takes the "New World" moniker to task as well. I think it stands as a good descriptor for NC's. It's ripped from the wine world. "New World" wines are transplants of old world vines. New World cigars are often offshoots of Cuban seed. I think it works as a delineation.

Interesting video so far. The AI generated content is somewhat disturbing though. 😬

The bit on why EMS aged cigars is enlightening. Never occurred to me. This is around the 22 minute mark. His overall remarks on aging seem logical as well.  You really get an impression of how logistics play into things.

[MrBirdman]

I wasn’t of age to be smoking pre-millennium Cubans, but the consensus I’ve consistently gotten from those who did is that flavor profiles have definitely evolved since that time. In fact I don’t recall hearing anyone say they’ve all remained exactly the same. So that part isn’t really in question to my mind. Naturally whether this change is welcome or not will depend on the smoker and the cigar in question. 

I don’t agree that every new blend is homogenous, but allow that there may be more homogeneity than in the past. Curious to hear thoughts on that from any of our more seasoned members. 

The EMS aging and duties claim is quite interesting. I’m inclined to believe it, since while tastes inevitably change the desire to avoid taxes doesn’t!

[dangolf18]

He says: "I have not smoked one great havana that has come out since 2019 and I have not smoked one great havana since 2010 that wasn't aged a minimum of 5 years".  I'm sorry but this guy is obnoxious and definitely full of crap. Unless of course he's smoked only a handful of Cubans in the last 10-15 years and they were all Guants, Monte Open, or machine made 😁. Not to mention his theory about EMS aging is insane.

[BrightonCorgi]

10 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

The EMS aging and duties claim is quite interesting. I’m inclined to believe it, since while tastes inevitably change the desire to avoid taxes doesn’t!

It was an interesting note. I would've thought it was duties on like buying wine in bond. The duty is paid when wine is out of bond which could be decade + later and less "costly".

[Li Bai]

9 hours ago, dangolf18 said:

He says: "I have not smoked one great havana that has come out since 2019  and I have not smoked one great havana since 2010 that wasn't aged a minimum of 5 years". I'm sorry but this guy is obnoxious and definitely full of crap. Unless of course he's smoked only a handful of cubans in the last 10-15 years and they were all Guants, Monte Open, or machine made 😁. Not to mention his theory about EMS aging is insane.

Well he recently wrote a 1200 euros book about AF (Arturo Fuente : since 1912), smokes Opus X on a daily basis and shares photos with Carlito every other week so...

He seems to have been an expert on CCs for a long time but now he earns a living with New World cigars, I don't know how much credit to give him! 🤔

[VeguerosMAN]

I agree that CC brands generally have similar flavor profile across the board as NCs have more different flavor profiles between different brands. 

[MrFolgers]

8 hours ago, Li Bai said:

Well he recently wrote a 1200 euros book about AF (Arturo Fuente : since 1912), smokes Opus X on a daily basis and shares photos with Carlito every other week so...

He seems to have been an expert on CCs for a long time but now he earns a living with New World cigars, I don't know how much credit to give him! 🤔

Bingo

[rascalmonkey]

Imagine if there were no info-rich boards like FOH + you had to rely on the "expert opinion" of snobs like this dude. There are dudes on this board like the NSX guy who drop more wisdom in 2 sentences than sigmund does in 35 mins.

[MrFolgers]

6 hours ago, rascalmonkey said:

Imagine if there were no info-rich boards like FOH + you had to rely on the "expert opinion" of snobs like this dude. There are dudes on this board like the NSX guy who drop more wisdom in 2 sentences than sigmund does in 35 mins.

Hey, you’re talking about a guy who had know how to differentiate between every Davidoff blend. You know how hard it is to tell the difference between 76 different kinds of bland air?

[CaptainQuintero]

  Personally, and in a generalised/sweeping way, from how I taste things I think Cubans have more in common than not; that there's a core 'CC' base blend that makes up something like 40% - 60% of all CC, and the rest is made up of leaf that gives the uniqueness of each marquee/vitola. That base blend can sometimes be very prominent to me.

 For some the base blend is less prominent eg Bolivar is one of the more unique, but in others that base blends seem to be a higher % eg RyJ and Punch, or QdO and Cohiba, and the similarities can be quite strong.

The blind tastings I've taken part in seems to underline this too (To my tastes).

 From my tastings in for example 1960's Cubans, there doesn't seem to be too much of that commonality. Eg RyJ have been extremely unique and slap you in the face with what they are; I don't really pick up any core/base blend to which RyJ blends have been added, it's just straight 100% unique RyJ.

[Çnote]

6 hours ago, rascalmonkey said:

There are dudes on this board like the NSX guy who drop more wisdom in 2 sentences than sigmund does in 35mins.

Truth @NSXCIGAR we love you

 

3 hours ago, MrFolgers said:

You know how hard it is to tell the difference between 76 different kinds of bland air?

That's a marketing problem, not connoisseur-ship.

[MrBirdman]

9 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Was interesting note. I would've thought it was duties on like buying wine in bond. The duty is paid when wine is out of bond which could be decade + later and less "costly".

I had the same thought. Could be BS, who knows?

[NSXCIGAR]

On 4/17/2024 at 7:14 AM, Puros Y Vino said:

Basically saying people were raving about it, but it doesn't taste like a Punch.

It's a left field cigar for him to bring up and I would say the ManTua is a great cigar but is within the spectrum of modern Punch character, and while I admit no other Punch I've had is blended quite like it the 898 and SS1 ERs are in that same general arena of flavor for Punch. So to say it doesn't taste like a Punch I don't think is entirely accurate. With his RA example it's true that the current RA (and Punch) profile has little in common with pre-2002 profile so if that's his benchmark then I suppose he's correct. 

Punch's flavor range has definitely evolved in the past 10 years and is getting quite diverse like HU has been for a while. If one isn't smoking CCs and Punch on a regular basis there would be no way to know that. If you're only familiar with Punch DC and Punch Punch I could absolutely see someone saying the ManTua is not Punch DNA. 

On 4/17/2024 at 9:57 AM, Li Bai said:

He seems to have been an expert on CCs for a long time but now he earns a living with New World cigars, i don't know how much credit to give him

Yes, I'm not sure where his interests lay. Based on my experiences with people mainly in the NC world I would highly scrutinize any statements he makes. 

On 4/17/2024 at 10:32 AM, VeguerosMAN said:

I agree that CC brands generally have similar flavor profile across the board as NCs have more different flavor profiles between different brands. 

I can't deny that I also feel differences between brand profiles have diminished since the 90s. No way around that conclusion. 

On 4/17/2024 at 9:14 AM, dangolf18 said:

He says: "I have not smoked one great havana that has come out since 2019  and I have not smoked one great havana since 2010 that wasn't aged a minimum of 5 years".

While I can't say he's completely full of it here this to me sounds like someone who just hasn't smoked many CCs in the last 10 years. Those years seem pretty arbitrary to me. There were some outstanding cigars being produced in 2010-2014, particularly Cohiba. 

And I also think he's giving a lot of weight to aging which seems to me to be more a relic of previous eras. He's seeming to suggest that aging of CCs is essential or that a CC isn't worth smoking unless it's aged which I would strongly disagree with. The vast majority of CCs are perfectly enjoyable with a year on them or even less in some cases. 

I can't challenge him on the statement that some cigars don't improve with age, particularly NCs as I'm not an NC smoker but I have heard similar things about some NCs. I've also had CCs that taste exactly the same to me after 5+ years. 

[VeguerosMAN]

I don't know how Cubans were in the 90s, but I read that they were a lot stronger in strength than today's Cubans. To me, all Cubans are mild whether they're Partagas or Hoyo. 

[PigFish]

Hand a guru 5 cigars. There is a good possibility that he gets none of them right, unless the catalog is so thin that only two exist.

How many PCs were made in the 90’s? A lot! There was a lot of depth of field. There were a lot more opportunities to smoke good cigars back then. MHO. Cigars were a better value and it did not sting if you got a dud. And you did get duds back then too. You just tossed it and could open a new box!

I think cigars were better. There was more fun in the exploring the many cigars that there were to try. I believed in flavor profiles back then, but I figure that I was convinced based on belief alone.

I think Cuba has effed up the Cuban cigar. I felt in love with the Cuban cigar back then. Now I just hate Tabacuba!

I really know very little about Cuban cigars today. The cost of knowing is simply too high. The education is not worth the mediocre smoking time and the cost for the experience.

Without wanting to sound like a pig about it. I would take any of my $3 PCs from that era over a newly minted $50 cigar from today. I thought great cigars were everywhere. I no longer believe that, but maybe I just did not know better.

In an argument against my own beliefs, I like 70’s music and think music today just sucks! Maybe it’s just about enjoying the new experiences of being younger.

MHO.

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, VeguerosMAN said:

I don't know how Cubans were in the 90s, but I read that they were a lot stronger in strength than today's Cubans. To me, all Cubans are mild whether they're Partagas or Hoyo. 

I would say that's basically true. Certainly much more "intense" in character. Some of that was due to youth. A young CC would tend to be much more tannic and ammoniac. No way would you want to smoke a Monte 2 or Lusi with less than 3 years on it. Even aged they were considered "powerhouse" cigars, particularly the PSD4. CCs in general were pretty much understood to be strong and intense. If you want mild get a Macanudo. 

There's definitely some flavors that have been lost since those days. For example RyJ Ex 4 was like eating a bowl of tropical fruit. There were brilliant woody flavors in cigars like Hoyo and Punch that I haven't tasted since then. The earthiness in Partagas and Boli was like fresh soil, almost peaty like an Islay whisky. Vegueros had an intense grassy flavor that was really nice, and Cohiba had a bit of that grassiness also. 

Of course there are some cigars that have changed less than others. I think ERDM is not too far from what it was. QdO Coronas. And the new brands are about the same as they were when they came out-- Cuaba, VR and SC. 

I also recall much more box-to-box and cigar-to-cigar consistency in the 90s. Construction was generally better and I rarely had a bad-burning cigar. They would stay lit much longer as well. 

[BrightonCorgi]

19 hours ago, dangolf18 said:

He says: "I have not smoked one great havana that has come out since 2019 and I have not smoked one great havana since 2010 that wasn't aged a minimum of 5 years".  I'm sorry but this guy is obnoxious and definitely full of crap. Unless of course he's smoked only a handful of Cubans in the last 10-15 years and they were all Guants, Monte Open, or machine made 😁. Not to mention his theory about EMS aging is insane.

Cohiba Gran Reserva was outstanding fresh out of the box.

[krish the fish]

I am a 60/40 CC/NC smoker with a lot of NC smoking recently since a move, so I feel I have reasonable experience to discuss some of this. I do think the majority of the CC cigars I’ve smoked that were truly remarkable were 2002+ (wasn’t old enough to have reasonable access to older cigars) but I think his takes on CCs and NCs in the last decade or so follow my experience. I have yet to find a NC cigar that benefits from age the way CC cigars do. I have yet to find a non aged stock (reserva, GR, etc) CC that didn’t benefit from age, sometimes significant age. Even in my few years of age I have noted significant difference in Marca blending notes for CCs. 

I do think it’s reasonable to disagree with someone’s take but name calling seems counterproductive to advancing our collective hobby. Just my 2 coppers.

[NSXCIGAR]

19 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

Cohiba Gran Reserva was outstanding fresh out of the box.

09 Siglo VI release? Maybe that's the last cigar he liked before 2010.  

To be fair though, those were aged 5 years...

[Lamboinee]

He comments that pairing wine with cigars is particularly difficult. This is consistent with my own personal experiences trying to pair some with cigars. The best "wine" and cigar pairing I've ever experienced has been with Penfolds port, but honestly, I still prefer bourbon or some kind of seltzer with my cigar.

He goes on to mention some particular white wines and dryer champagnes that, in his opinion, are the best types of wine to pair with a smoke. I've never specifically tried to pair white wine with cigars, although I have enjoyed a cigar with champagne/sparkling wine.

@Ken Gargett I gather that Mr. Ken is the resident wine authority...If he ever gets notified of this reference, I'd be curious about his take on pairing wine with cigars. Is wine categorically "impossible" to pair with cigars? Is it even more difficult? Are white wines and/or champagne easier to pair? 

 

 

[Ken Gargett]

11 minutes ago, Lamboinee said:

He comments that pairing wine with cigars is particularly difficult. This is consistent with my own personal experiences trying to pair some with cigars. The best "wine" and cigar pairing I've ever experienced has been with Penfolds port, but honestly, I still prefer bourbon or some kind of seltzer with my cigar.

He goes on to mention some particular white wines and dryer champagnes that, in his opinion, are the best types of wine to pair with a smoke. I've never specifically tried to pair white wine with cigars, although I have enjoyed a cigar with champagne/sparkling wine.

@Ken Gargett I gather that Mr. Ken is the resident wine authority...If he ever gets notified of this reference, I'd be curious about his take on pairing wine with cigars. Is wine categorically "impossible" to pair with cigars? Is it even more difficult? Are white wines and/or champagne easier to pair? 

very kind of you to say so, but plenty of people on the forum with lots of knowledge. 

for what it is worth, for years when Rob would come around for the cigar video on the old deck, we'd open a red or two. i used to insist that it was a crap match, time after time, but Rob was adamant. that was what he liked (and i have no issue with someone sticking to what they like - mad not to. if you like hot chocolate with a rare steak, knock yourself out). does not mean that there are not better options. although Rob would always insist he was a Pinot guy. so i'd bring out a top Pinot. it would be dismissed. i'd try again. it would be dismissed. so i'd bring out a big Shiraz and tell him it was a Pinot. he loved those. he may want to be, but Rob is not a Pinot guy. he is a big Shiraz guy. and absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. 

but for matching, tannins in red wine play havoc with cigars. and cigars play havoc with reds. for me, a trainwreck in your mouth. have always said that champagnes go really well. don't have the red problem. fresher whites. i would not be using my good chardies. 

but overall, a good port or rum/bourbon/whisky hard to beat. 

[Lamboinee]

Yay! You found it! Appreciate the input, I have also found reds to be very difficult to pair. I'll try some more champagnes/sparkling wines and see what I find.

[VeguerosMAN]

I think Hoyo or Illusione Epernay would pair nice with sparkling wine, although I never tried.

[cigaraholic]

The 2 white wines I enjoy with cigars are Champagne and a Mosel with lighter bodied cigars. I don’t drink red wine with cigars, I was raised better than that👻 If I had to choose a red wine I would want something very fruity and very low in tannins, Beaujolais and Zinfandel would be my choices. I’ll have my Chablis with oysters if you please.