First step in Developing the 10 commandments of determining a fake box of CC cigars.

[El Presidente]

I would get a dozen emails or PMs a week in relation to members questioning boxes purchased from all over the world. They purchase them from good online vendors, FB trades, auction sites, private collections, gifted by family members, questionable/reputable, B&Ms. 

I am no authority on fakes. Certainly I am better than most but there are plenty far better than myself to comment on what to look for. In defence of my own inadequacies, I have only purchased from PCC (licensed Habanos distributor Asia Pacific) since 2002 and hence it wasn't something that I paid much attention towards. 

I can tell you that it is far easier to determine a fake box, with it in front of you. The aroma at cold (in most cases) is a dead give away (for me) before you ever get to the bands and tasting. Having that box in front of you however is not always practical. Photos are OK but not always reliable. Production inconsistencies on CC boxes only confuses the process. 

If we had to put together the 10 commandments of determining (within a reasonable doubt) a fake box, what would those 10 commandments be? 

Consider this stage one of developing those 10 commandments. Consider this a general discussion before we narrow it down. All member input is welcome and we will kick the ball around this week before putting together a practical guide next week that will be in a reFOHrence section of FOH in order that members can always refer back to it.

Remember, this thread is the initial general discussion 

Kick around a "general" commandment/thought or two. It doesn't have to be mind-blowing. General thoughts and discussion. 

[ender.lmm]

The easiest one is:

"If the deal looks too good to be true, most likely it isn't"

Second one for me:

"You will fall victim of a scam at least once in your life"

[Seacliff]

Another one, Instagram is not your friend.  Got this from a profile geared towards selling cigars just a few days ago

[El Presidente]

How many members here know their serial numbers? How many check?

[Chas.Alpha]

4 hours ago, El Presidente said:

How many members here know their serial numbers? How many check?

Rob, I need one more tin of Upmann’s and another of the Souvenir HdM. Any chance you can make sure they’re real this time?

Thanks,

CAH

btw, not kidding…🙄

 

Rule #1: Know your source.

Rule #2: See rule #1.

 

[Grimlock]

8 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

How many members here know their serial numbers? How many check?

I keep all of my boxes in a spreadsheet. In addition to name, cost, factory code etc., each box gets 3 checks: (serial number/blacklight check/cigars inspected) and the date I did it. 

 

 

[Chas.Alpha]

I’ll get back on point, which is unusual for me:

Open box. Are the bands uniform?

Are the wrappers consistent ?

Do you find variations of color of the wrappers? How so?

Trust your vendor.

[NSXCIGAR]

We're entering an era of flawless fakes so I'm not sure how useful the traditional red flags are anymore. 

Pre-2022 I would say box codes and code fonts can screen out well over 90% of fakes. For Cohiba it's still worth checking the bands under UV and for BHK the microprints on the bands. 

For high-end boxes it seemed the cedar top sheet being too thick and/or dark can probably eliminate another 80% of fakes. 

As of Oct 2023 the only advice I have is know your source.

[Tunkat92]

Provenance is the #1, if there is a red flag and no provenance I assume I am taking a gamble.

[MagicalBikeRide]

We’ve probably reached a point where buying from reputable vendors is the only foolproof way to guarantee authenticity 

[Fireball]

Provenance is it.  But if we did want to look at other factors, two big ones from the lizards podcast come to mind.
 

 First, as they described it, the factories employ people who are experts in matching colors so that any box is filled with cigars that are uniform in color. 

Second, because the boxes are matched according to color, the cigars in a single box will likely be from multiple rollers.  Apparently rollers each have their own style when it comes to placing the cap on. So much so that they can look at a cigar and know if they rolled it. As a result, Caps in a single box would not all be uniform, whereas fakes could easily all be done by the same person.  

 

10 hours ago, El Presidente said:

How many members here know their serial numbers? How many check?

I have checked serial numbers, but not regularly.  Who knows now, the pricing changes have really brought out some high end scammers so checking probably not the worst idea. 

[Edicion]

I found this list that I think is appropriate:

1. Purchase from a reputable source (yes it's #1 on many ppls lists too)

2. Inspect the packaging for craftsmanship and consistency (check out the recent Majestuosos video)

3. Verify the box codes on the Habanos S.A. website or with lists from the one here on FOH

4. Examine the cigar bands for clear printing, embossing, and accurate details

5. Assess the overall presentation, including the quality of rolling and consistency of color and texture of wrappers, materials, misspellings, colour variations etc

6. Familiarize yourself with the scent of genuine Cuban cigars and compare it to the cigars in question (like Prez mentioned)

7. Look for a hologram seal or other security features on the box (dead giveaway that was missed on some recent high end fakes sold by legitimate B&M shops)

8. Check for proper labeling, including accurate country of origin and manufacturer information (stickers/labels that should match the origin)

9. Research the specific brand and cigar model to understand its characteristics and packaging details (seen some CPE that were max 48 rg and releases not yet produced!)

10. Seek expert opinion from a knowledgeable cigar aficionado or expert if you're still unsure (like here on FOH before making a "big" purchase)

Additional points:

11. Avoid boxes with glass tops

12. If the deal is too good to be true, it is fakes

13. If someone is selling a high end box / rare / pre -rev and they don't know much about it , including who's kept it for the last 10/20/50 years, don't buy it

14. If the story is that they come from Cuba through a friend/cousin/factory worker it's probably not from Cuba

15. Walk away from a purchase if you are unsure - it's only cigars

[gormag38]

11 hours ago, El Presidente said:

How many members here know their serial numbers? How many check?

After looking for a date/factory stamp (and the accompanying font) the next thing I do is ALWAYS look at the SN and compare it to the year. I know that my 2019 boxes have codes that start with a 000043 - 000044, my 2020 boxes 000049, 48, all the way to current boxes being in the 000055-57. I have a general sense of where the starting numbers should be in relation to the year (at least with boxes from the past 5-7 years or so. It's a simple system that many (but not all) counterfeiters don't get right. 

As far as actually checking those numbers in the Habanos website.....almost never do. Their webpage is probably down 1/4 of the year. But also, I trust my sources. Which indeed is the holy grail of rules. 

[joeypots]

10 hours ago, Chas.Alpha said:

Trust your vendor.

#1, 2, 3.

[Rushman]

Like many others have said, its so important to know your retailer - or at least someone you know and trust knows the retailer.  Also if it's a B&M, inspect the packaging, bands, uniformity, etc - however we all have likely seen crap construction coming out of Cuba. If online, be very cautious. If in Mexico, be extremely cautious. 

[MrBirdman]

14 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

We're entering an era of flawless fakes so I'm not sure how useful the traditional red flags are anymore.

As of Oct 2023 the only advice I have is know your source.

I think that if we’re talking about ensuring authenticity these days, this is it. Only provenance offers any real assurance. We can create a “10 Commandments to determine whether you definitely have a fake”, but without provenance not whether you definitely have an authentic box. Important difference, obviously. 

[Islandboy]

I think I’ve only checked a serial number once, just to see what the process entailed. This is mainly because I’ve always adhered strictly to @Chas.Alpha’s rule #2.

With regards to checking boxes, the first thing I want to see is the date/factory stamp. As @NSXCIGAR mentions, this can be one of the easiest clues to rule out. Even with all the inconsistencies Cuban cigars are known for, the date/factory stamp font is surprisingly consistent and easily recognizable once you’ve seen a hundred of ‘em.

[DaBoot]

I think going forward, with counterfeiting operations using authentic boxes and bands bought on secondary, those security measures will not tell the whole story… 

[Riverstyx]

I usually buy from trusted sources, so I've never spent a ton of time analyzing all the particulars. However, I recently purchased an aged box from an unknown source. The aroma at cold smelled great...but it was just like Andalusian Bulls' smell. I spent a little time analyzing the box, but I was convinced they were fake regardless of box/wrapper authenticity. First time being had in a long time, but luckily worked everything out.  

So for an unsophisticated box/serial#/wrapper detective like myself, aroma at cold.  

[BrightonCorgi]

Outside of the glass top, cigars that don't exist, or just look too poorly made for even Habanos;  I am not much help.

I am easy prey for any of the 5-6 vendors I use in store or online.  I hope none are reading this and get an idea.

[Chibearsv]

If you want a genuine CC, avoid the guy selling CCs out of a duffel bag on the beach. 

[Fireball]

I think as long as the seller guarantees that a relative got them from Cuba then you’re golden.  😂

[NSXCIGAR]

7 hours ago, Chibearsv said:

If you want a genuine CC, avoid the guy selling CCs out of a duffel bag on the beach. 

Ok, so far we've got:

1) Thou shalt not buy glass tops

2) Thou shalt not buy from duffel bags on beaches

[westg]

14 hours ago, Rushman said:

Like many others have said, its so important to know your retailer - or at least someone you know and trust knows the retailer.  Also if B&M, inspect the packaging, bands, uniformity, etc - however we all have likely seen crap construction coming out of cuba.  if online, be very cautious.  if in Mexico, be extremely cautious. 

Hey Rush is back 😎🌴

[MrBirdman]

I’ve seen a number of fakes being sold in cellophane, actually, which is also a dead giveaway.