Vendor Supply Chains & Inherent Risks

[havanaclub]

That’s too bad. Wonder if Bryan At cigar obsession will make a statement about it, or strip his MF promotions/advertising. I know he ordered there a while ago and had codes.


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[bobzond]

Hate to make this my first post but have to ask.  I also purchased a box from montefortuna recently.  The box I purchased was monte especial no 2, it was around 430 box.  Is there anyway to research this box or do you know without a doubt they are fakes?

anything i need to look for asap?

 

chris

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, Cigar Salute said:

Thanks to Rob & everyone for the support and kind words!  I just wanna point out that Greg AKA "GregSpringer1" here on FOH deserves the credit for discovering these cigars were now being sold at Montefortuna.  

Well done Greg! 

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, bobzond said:

Hate to make this my first post but have to ask.  I also purchased a box from montefortuna recently.  The box I purchased was monte especial no 2, it was around 430 box.  Is there anyway to research this box or do you know without a doubt they are fakes?

anything i need to look for asap?

 

chris

Price is about right. Low risk counterfeit cigar. 

Your impressions re your first post are correct. 

If your still concerned, post an intro in the Newbie Section and then head to the Suspect Cigar forum and post pics of all the relevant pieces including serial numbers, microprinting etc etc.  The lads here will be able to advise quick smart. 

[LordAnubis]

3 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Buying from trusted vendors that source directly is going to be the only way to prevent this. 

It’s interesting. That’s one of the first things I look for in a fake website. If they mention anything about “only sourced directly from the habanos distributor” or such, then that’s a hard pass from me 😂😂😂

[porkchop]

…and the truth shall set you free. Thank you so much to cigarsalute and all other individuals putting in the time to protect the rest of us. 

[NSXCIGAR]

51 minutes ago, LordAnubis said:

It’s interesting. That’s one of the first things I look for in a fake website. If they mention anything about “only sourced directly from the habanos distributor” or such, then that’s a hard pass from me 😂😂😂

Every fake site also says they're trusted. 

There are of course gray market vendors who are highly trusted. I'm only pointing out that they may not survive regardless of performance. I won't stop ordering from them but others will. 

[ha_banos]

And this does not bode well for the second hand market. Ah well. At least I can smoke em!

[Ford2112]

I won't ever buy Cohiba blind ever again. Too risky IMO. Stick to FOH!

[El Presidente]

17 minutes ago, Ford2112 said:

I won't ever buy Cohiba blind ever again. Too risky IMO. Stick to FOH!

While I appreciate the sentiment, there are some very good vendors out there.  Remind me to do a piece on the subject once the smoke clears. 👍

[Arabian]

with degrading Cuban CQ and fakes are getting better. this will be a tough task.

[Fugu]

7 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

This may be the beginning of the end of vendors not affiliated with their region's distributor or HSA as a Habanos Point or Specialist. 

You’re making a valid point. I must say, I am almost happy not to be, and never having been able to use those ‘grey-ish’ sources, due to our domestic setting and a particular, highly pesky customs office responsible for my home area, fishing out each single package that’s coming my way from abroad. Forced me for cigars to exclusively use the official channels, i.e. through local distributor(s) only. >95% of my stock is deriving from there, a greater part of that even from the good old true and trusted B&M (well, when I started out there was no other...😉), CDH and Habanos Specialists mostly. With most, I have long standing personal relationships (and some became LCDH/HS during that time only). Sure, I had and I have to pay a little premium. But if I cannot afford to pay that (ever dwindling) premium, I cannot afford to smoke cigars. On the plus, it also allowed me to source cigars, that were otherwise not easy to source. So, today, I can say with confidence that a 100-percent of my inventory is legit (also due to knowing my stuff...). On the flip side, to this day I have never held a “living“ fake in my hands, haha.

It sure helps - no, it’s essential - to know a thing or two and to be selective with your sources. This old hard and fast - like you’re alluding to - is holding for today even more than ever before, since cigarmageddon. There’s way too much money involved.

[SCgarman]

5 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Every fake site also says they're trusted. 

There are of course gray market vendors who are highly trusted. I'm only pointing out that they may not survive regardless of performance. I won't stop ordering from them but others will. 

Fake sites were always around, most knew who they are/were. The troubling new trend "may" be the legit grey market vendors doing anything they can to survive in this market. And that may mean sourcing counterfeit product known or not to sell. And potentially how many Cuban marcas may be counterfeited now, since supply is so thin? Will there be any limits? 

[Corylax18]

1 hour ago, SCgarman said:

And that may mean sourcing counterfeit product known or not to sell.

They're the same thing. When was the last time a car dealership sold you a fake Ford, or Ferrari? Ignorance is NO excuse for someone who makes their living (or used to in this case) selling cigars. If a couple lowly old hobbyists could figure it out, than MF should have been able to. Especially considering all the extra info they have. Whoever made the astoundingly stupid decision to do this turned a very concerning, but short term, supply issue into an event that will harm the companies reputation for every day it continues to exist. Sure another one is born every second, but MF better hope they can survive selling exclusively to suckers from here on out. 

[Fugu]

50 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

Ignorance is NO excuse for someone who makes their living (or used to in this case) selling cigars.

This!

Reputation and confidence is everything - or used to be everything in this business. Perhaps this case will eventually lead to a purge somehow.

More likely however, they’ll have to close down the biz - as that will leave a deep scar - to be soon popping up under a new moniker.

[PuroDiario]

Very saddening, big props to @Cigar Salute and co. I am not surprised however...i remember a while back I posted a box of fakes a friend of mine on Reddit from one of the "trusted vendors" list on that Reddit forum and the vendor talibans in there basically cancelled me...not only he had gotten a fake box, but the other two boxes he ordered had termites and mold...etc. In earnest, the vendor fully refunded him, but no admission of it was given.

Regarding the influencer marketing, i always have been dubious. The economics of these online vendors do not really support such a legion of influencers sporting tier 1 vitolas for marketing to be honest, unless my assumptions on Gross Margin per box sold + fullfillment costs + admin/central costs of those businesses are completely off....

On other front, have been living in the US for now around a decade, and is tough to have the conversation so i just never even bring up the subject anymore, but major % of the CCs folks smoke around here are absolute fakes from varying levels of quality, mostly good enough quality. I recently visited a lounge in NJ near NYC, and i was walked to a back office where there was a full humidor of fake boxes from BHKs to Lusi reservas, Monte #2, different Trinidad, REs, etc.

I buy local back home in Spain at expense of variety and when i can make it on time from @El Presidente, and over the years i have been able to develop few good relationships with vendors that would ship over here to the US some of them well known some others not so well...

     

[Ford2112]

6 hours ago, El Presidente said:

While I appreciate the sentiment, there are some very good vendors out there.  Remind me to do a piece on the subject once the smoke clears. 👍

This I know and I still will order from certain venders I have come to have good dealings with. Looking forward to your take on this.

[mbflash80]

32 minutes ago, PuroDiario said:

 

On other front, have been living in the US for now around a decade, and is tough to have the conversation so i just never even bring up the subject anymore, but major % of the CCs folks smoke around here are absolute fakes from varying levels of quality, mostly good enough quality. I recently visited a lounge in NJ near NYC, and i was walked to a back office where there was a full humidor of fake boxes from BHKs to Lusi reservas, Monte #2, different Trinidad, REs, etc.

 

     

This has been the case forever here in the states.  Every B&M that I have ever been to that invites me to "check out our cubans" has been 100% fake.  My own brother will not take heed of my warning and continues to but from his local shop in Southern CA because "the guy really knows everything about cubans"...and has an endless supply of cohibas, trinidads, other HTF and limited stuff...its an infestation at this point. 

[helix]

Personally started out with only CC's and was very bias about Cuban cigars being the only worthy cigars to smoke. I have made a foray into NC's as of late and have found a world of outstanding cigars. Little worry of fakes , great prices and supply. Please do not take this as being an irreverence toward CC's . 

[BrightonCorgi]

On 9/28/2022 at 8:58 AM, bambambam said:

They didn't even offer to cover shipping to return the box so they could inspect it. They wanted me/us to pay for shipping to then be possibly offered a refund.

They wouldn't even replace the box with a new authentic box, claiming the difference in price was too great. All red flags well before I sent the box to Dan.

No need for them to have the box back or inspect it.  They know what it is.  They should've sent you a replacement box or a couple of boxes of something else that you'd fancy with an apology.  Just like politics; it's the cover up that is worse than the crime.  Montefortuna could've been the hero doing the right thing to massive loss of reputation for how much did they make?  For activity not befitting of the distributorship.

 

On 9/28/2022 at 8:58 AM, SCgarman said:

The Chinese have yet to master a counterfeit Rolex.

Don't be so sure on that.  Only has to pass one sucker. 

[Tstew75]

@gregspringer1 is a damn animal & has tirelessly spent many hours on this project. Props to @Cigar Salute for working together with Greg on this project & helping to get info out there. There's a small group of US guys who love to track down fakes- it's really needed right now & I'm happy to be associated with them.

I hope I'm not letting the cat out of the bag here, but there seems to be more revelations to come...

[SCgarman]

Just curious, does MF have a "sister" site like a few of the other grey market suppliers? Or are they a standalone site?

[BoliDan]

I agree they may not have known, but they should be highly suspicious of a black market vendor. I've never patroned them simply because their aggressive guerrilla style advertising on social media was off-putting. When I saw that thread I wasn't surprised. People getting desperate for stock. HSA is in trouble and will need to up their authenticity game.

[mprach024]

FOH has been my trusted source since before the forum existed and it was just emails to my beloved Lisa at Cigar Czar.  Before then it was the LCDH in Windsor.  I’ve had this discussion with friends before about using grey market resellers - It’s just not worth it, be patient, don’t chase sale prices, and only buy from proven source.  They’ve shown me too many boxes that have had too many red flags.  If I ever get a fake I know who to call, but I’m not worried about that so no need for me to buy a black light, even if he is a self proclaimed pirate.  

[rcarlson]

5 hours ago, Tstew75 said:

I hope I'm not letting the cat out of the bag here, but there seems to be more revelations to come...

Let me guess.  Now that the black lights and magnifying glasses are out, some other sacred cow venders will be called out and/or swaths of RPs.