Another 5 years of Tory rule in the UK

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, 99call said:

I think this perception of both men, really rests on the persons political leaning. I see things as completely flipped.  I see Corbyn as being useless and pathetic,   but Boris as being the much more worrying truly evil force.  I pound shop Churchill with the sociopath Dominic Cummings making him dance like a desperate puppet. 

i suspect that there is something in all that (although i'm lost with your last sentence?). but the impression that has been given of corben as anti-semetic - something he does not seem to have been too bothered about or perhaps i missed that - would give me real cause for concern. hard to see that as acceptable for the leader of the UK. 

[Buck14]

Can't we just agree to go back to this for the next 25 years?

 

 

[El Presidente]

5 minutes ago, 99call said:

this is the real new prime minister, people will learn it drip by painful drip

 

.....you need to let it go before it consumes you 

When has a politician (of any ilk) actually made your life better? 

Race horses race, hunting dogs hunt, politicians lie to get elected.  It is just the way it has always been and nothing to get worked up about.  It's like getting angry at your dog for peeing on a pole. 

5 years will come and go. Who knows who will be the Tory Prime Minister by the end of the term? 

The one stunning reality is that the the UK public said no to Corbyn. On the face of it, they got that right. 

[CaptainQuintero]

  You could go on for a long, long time for why the result was what it was. But what struck me most during the whole campaign was taking to my Grandfather in law a few weeks ago. 

  He's an ex-miner in a small pit town in the North and he quite freely said he was voting for conservative for the first time. When I asked about Thatcher and the mines he blew out his cheeks and said that it was nearly 50 years since she had put him out of work, he'd had to build a new life for himself. What did he have in common with London rappers telling him to vote for a man who he watched meet with terrorists after they blew up families in pubs and hotels, anti Semitic extremists, hard-line communists and dictators while he was busy rebuilding his life after the coal mines shut?

   How do you even start a dialogue with that on the doorstep as an activist? Try to explain the intricacies of why Corbyn met with Hezbollah and Hamas? Why he toured Soviet nations on political trips, all supposedly under the guise of opening dialogues then when someone he disagrees with eg Trump comes to town, he boycotts the visit? But when the Chinese Premier turn up he finds a white tuxedo to attend the visit?

  I think it probably boils down to a third of the country lean left, a third right and you have to win that middle third over. Like it or not it mostly comes down to a personality contest and most people will go off what they see on TV.

  Labour couldn't ever win with someone with the kind of baggage Corbyn was lugging around. Add in the people who he put into his top team; proud Stalinists, people who say Mao should be celebrated, fringe players brought in from the political extremes and those few glances the general public get are not going to be forgotten easily. 

  It's unsafe and damaging for a country to not have an effective opposition to hold a government to account. It's inexcusable for the main opposition to spend years dicking around with 1970s pantomime characters when the country had been crying out for change and a new direction.

  Labour could have picked any number of down to earth likeable MPs with a simple message of free markets and protecting the NHS, they could have been the party to forge that new direction. They picked a guy who on his first major public outing, looked like he had slept in a bin and refused to sing the national anthem at the Battle of Britain commemoration. 

  First day after the election today and angry mobs are fighting police infront of the Cenotaph because their man lost another election.

 I don't usually go into politics outside of close friends but it's been so incredible you can't help yourself, labour got everything they deserved but it's the real people who live here will have to pay for the consequences of their fantasist vanity project. These failures can slink back to being professional offense-takers and fashionable protest organisers on the public purse. No consequences, no responsibility, no bother.

  

[Mikeltee]

16 hours ago, Akela3rd said:

The democratic process has unfortunately proved to be flawed by being manipulated. You get the government that works the system best, uses the media, lies best and has the biggest balls. The truth has become irrelevant, the vote and the win are all that matter.

All parties now do it, in the UK the Tories are much better at it than the others.

 

Sent from 47171 Lempo 

 

 

 

Your statements assume that all people are idiots and cave to manipulation. Anyone with half a brain sees right through this. The problem I see is that the majority of people have already made up their mind how to vote before the candidates are even chosen. Once the voting becomes a task that you can do on your couch the system will be failed. If you are too lazy to walk a mile to a booth than you are too lazy to research what each candidate stands for. Everyone deserves a vote though. When democracy was formed it did so under the premise that we were all equal meaning when we set out to succeed we have an equal chance to do so. Many peoples goals are to let the wealthy pay their way and fortunately most of these people are too lazy to vote. When they no longer need to be lazy to vote democracy will be ruined.

[joeruby]

Who ever wins an election offers positives and or negatives when applied to each individual’s personal situation, views and beliefs. Accepting the status quo and making the best of a good (or bad) situation is always better than non acceptance or protesting the will of the people.

“Never complain, never explain”, is a good mantra to observe..

[ayepatz]

5 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Race horses race, hunting dogs hunt, politicians lie to get elected.

“Listen, I'm a politician, which means I'm a cheat and a liar, and when I'm not kissing babies, I'm stealing their lollipops, but it also means that I keep my options open.”

Great movie quote from The Hunt for Red October. Seems oddly fitting.

[Akela3rd]

Your statements assume that all people are idiots and cave to manipulation. Anyone with half a brain sees right through this. The problem I see is that the majority of people have already made up their mind how to vote before the candidates are even chosen. Once the voting becomes a task that you can do on your couch the system will be failed. If you are too lazy to walk a mile to a booth than you are too lazy to research what each candidate stands for. Everyone deserves a vote though. When democracy was formed it did so under the premise that we were all equal meaning when we set out to succeed we have an equal chance to do so. Many peoples goals are to let the wealthy pay their way and fortunately most of these people are too lazy to vote. When they no longer need to be lazy to vote democracy will be ruined.

Not so. You don't have to be an idiot to be manipulated and with voter profiling and other nefarious means it's a very sophisticated business. I do agree that generally people vote on party lines and don't research enough though. Filtering out the truth has become a full time occupation... which many can't be bothered with.
Voter apathy is something that is on the rise, playing into the hands of those that seek power. A minority mandate is becoming more common and is a worrying trend.

Sent from 47171 Lempo 

[Ritch]

7 hours ago, 99call said:

This is like celebrating the fact you've just shuck off a cold,   when simultaneously, you've just contracted syphilis.    

 

Im pretty sure we dont catch syphilis just by electing Boris. It would require sleeping with hin surely?

But come on seriously, he has leadership, he has charisma, he has the support of business and the markets, he can write a decent news article. Hes just what we need to sort out brexit.

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, Ritch said:

Im pretty sure we dont catch syphilis just by electing Boris. It would require sleeping with hin surely?

But come on seriously, he has leadership, he has charisma, he has the support of business and the markets, he can write a decent news article. Hes just what we need to sort out brexit.

and he looks like churchill compared to the alternative. 

must confess i had not realised how appalling corbyn is - probably be saying the same thing about boris if he'd lost - been reading some of the reports and they have been identifying reasons for the loss. lord spare me, he was much worse than i thought. i'm staggered he won as many seats as he did. 

[gweilgi]

43 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

and he looks like churchill compared to the alternative. 

must confess i had not realised how appalling corbyn is - probably be saying the same thing about boris if he'd lost - been reading some of the reports and they have been identifying reasons for the loss. lord spare me, he was much worse than i thought. i'm staggered he won as many seats as he did. 

I gather Churchill is one of BoJo's great heroes (even wrote a book on him which, while hardly authoritative, was not bad).  There are far worse role models to choose, particularly when a country is in a time of deep crisis.  Especially if he now follows up his worthy reconciliation rhetoric with the sort of unifying cabinet that Churchill went for during WWII ...

[Ken Gargett]

11 minutes ago, db13 said:

I think plans for Boris Johnson as Prime Minister were "arranged" well before this vote happened. Let's not fool ourselves...

can you explain "arranged"? are you suggesting the election was rigged? i'd not heard anything along those lines and i think it would be rather difficult to achieve. 

[CaptainQuintero]

46 minutes ago, db13 said:

I think plans for Boris Johnson as Prime Minister were "arranged" well before this vote happened. Let's not fool ourselves...

  There wasn't just plans, he was pm for a full 3 months before this vote!

[Ken Gargett]

31 minutes ago, db13 said:

agree with captain. he has already been PM. and my understanding is that the PM meets with HM usually once a week. not sure there is any great conspiracy here. simply a whomping election victory.

[potpest]

can you explain "arranged"? are you suggesting the election was rigged? i'd not heard anything along those lines and i think it would be rather difficult to achieve. 

This election was won on the Brexit issue.
Not sure if you've read the below article on the Brexit vote; but this may explain why some people think the whole thing was "rigged" from the start.

The great British Brexit robbery: how our democracy was hijacked

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[99call]

2 hours ago, Ritch said:

Im pretty sure we dont catch syphilis just by electing Boris. It would require sleeping with hin surely?

But come on seriously, he has leadership, he has charisma, he has the support of business and the markets, he can write a decent news article. Hes just what we need to sort out brexit.

Please.... some may swoon, and throw themselves on the floor, so he doesn't have to step in puddles, but thats their problem.  His act is paper thin.    Talk about dither and delay?  his whole MO is to waffle and stammer like he's choking on a plum, whenever he encounters any situation that requires uttering the truth. This election has also highlighted that he is a coward, and million miles from any likeness to Churchill

He's simply the tory candidate, and long standing tory voters would vote in a sack of potatoes if it had a blue ribbon on it. This is very much an election that Labour and the lib dems lost, not that he won.   Tory and breaking set of old labour voter, thought he was marginally less terrible that Corbyn,  thats it 

He doesn't have leadership, he is a good orator (when its abuse, lies and spin) and would be a great after dinner speaker etc.   but he is just another cab of the rank, when it comes to Etonians, that have been protected through the work place by daddy and old school alumni in the city.     He is able to project the idea that he thinks he's excellent, and he could be "World King" because he's been protected and mollycoddled his entire life.    If he had been born into a poor working class family, his talent (which i'm struggling to locate) wouldn't get him very far. 

I'm happy for you, that you're happy, but that's all it is, he not a great man, just a man with a blue badge.  During this whole shambles, the only Tories i've been impressed with have been Ken Clark, Nic Boles and Justine Greening, and thats not because they were co-operating in some part with opposing parties,  just that they seemed like decent, intelligent people of substance.    I would also suggest that the only people In the labour party, I rate in any way are. Sir Keir Starmer, Yvette Cooper, and Lisa Nandi.....I would happily bin the rest. 

[peanutpete]

12 hours ago, 99call said:

Completely agree.   The rise of Jeremy Corbyn is a perverse by product of a London stronghold of the 'momentum' movement.   Corbyn combines limp wristed 'trustafarianism' with hard lined communisim. It's something that has binary opposition to the North, and old school Labour (where I sit)   The only people in society who can afford to keep such unworkable political opinions are crustie drop-outs who live in some odd state of self denial.  I.e secretly rich

The end of Jeremy Corbyn is the only silver lining in the sad, sad story.    l

I hope you're right about the demise of JC,but I fear the labour party may be so infested with momentum supporters that we will see a few more years of this failed project,

The other interesting point about the election is that 52% voted for remain parties, imagine the out come of labour and the lib dems if they had leaders who the public actually liked 

[Fugu]

19 hours ago, Buck14 said:

How is it that the UK has its lowest unemployment rate in 45 years (the US lowest in 50 years) and the markets are near / at an all time high and this is hardly ever talked about? Very similar to the US. It's deeply concerning that the Tories get very little / no credit for these extremely impressive, historical economic numbers.

Because perhaps it is not (just) "the Tories" to be given credit for? Talk about cause and effect. Talk about temporal scales. Is it just plain coincidence that that 45-year's span you are addressing is precisely marking UK's entry into the EU (EEC back then; membership since 1973)? You could likewise argue that it is/was the European integration process that is to be given credit / to blame (depending on your personal perspective) for the current state of affairs.

People pick those examples that they see fit their own argument best. Truth and reality rarely are as simple and monocausal.

[Fugu]

On the bright side - chances were never better for Ireland to receive its own Regional Edition... 

[Akela3rd]

can you explain "arranged"? are you suggesting the election was rigged? i'd not heard anything along those lines and i think it would be rather difficult to achieve. 

One theory on this is that you had Cameron and BJ, both members of the Bullingdon Club, on either side of the Brexit camps. One or the other would become/be PM. Cameron lost the vote, no matter - put May in as PM as a sacrifice to the inevitable Brexit mess then BJ takes over (having resigned as London mayor, a position that built his profile). Old Boys Club wins either way and the Eton elite keep the prize. This theory was forwarded a few years ago (can't remember where TBH) and actually fits the outcome.

Sent from 47171 Lempo 

[99call]

59 minutes ago, Fugu said:

On the bright side - chances were never better for Ireland to receive its own Regional Edition... 

Please lord make it a Candela skinny

[Cairo]

3 minutes ago, Mikeltee said:

There is a very interesting documentary on Cambridge Analytics on Netflix. It supports most people opinions that they manipulated the sheeple into voting for their client by targeting in the middle voters with negative ads against their client's opponent.

I used to work on campaigns many years ago.    Advertising companies claims of success are often lies.    (They want you to buy their product, of course!)  Any buyer would need careful _independent_ analysis of the data.    That analysis should include a control group--one area hit with the ads and another area (as similar as possible) with no ads.    

Advertising can be very effective, but only if it is executed by very skilled folks who understand the data and have a clear objective.     Likewise, negative ads can be very effective _if_ they are executed by folks who understand the local "hot-button" issues (which of course vary by location and demographic).    A national negative ad campaign will have mixed results at best.

 

[tigger]

 

On 12/12/2019 at 7:49 PM, El Presidente said:

We are waiting to see who is going on a forum  holiday first. 

Hmmmmm. ?

[Lotusguy]

Member for 2 years and you STILL haven’t understood the (few) rules that govern this place?

[ayepatz]

Please refrain from discussion of US politics, per our forum rules.

This thread is about the UK election. Let’s stick to that, please.