Grade or Age?

[Hadroxity]

If give the option would you rather pay for a current year PSP/HQ or 4-5yr aged unknown grade cigar?

Same cost or slightly more for the aged.

Curious as to which is more important, I understand however if you took a PSP box and rested it for that amount of time you’d get the best of both.

[Optic101]

If I can’t inspect the cigar myself, then always with grading. 

Prefer to age myself. Still picking up an older box occasionally if I see one by chance at a shop during travel and are happy with appearance, smell, touch. 

[luckme10]

Current PSP/HQ. Since I'd  probably get to it in 4-5 years after smoking through current stock with age on it.  

[wineguy]

40 minutes ago, Optic101 said:

If I can’t inspect the cigar myself, then always with grading. 

Prefer to age myself. Still picking up an older box occasionally if I see one by chance at a shop during travel and are happy with appearance, smell, touch. 

 

14 minutes ago, luckme10 said:

Current PSP/HQ. Since I'd  probably get to it in 4-5 years after smoking through current stock with age on it.  

Agree with both. Would not buy aged blind, that being said the FOH auctions have some great cigars but at an appropriate price.

[Lotusguy]

Agree with both. Would not buy aged blind, that being said the FOH auctions have some great cigars but at an appropriate price.

I’m sorry but some of that pricing is ridiculous - I’d go with the aged from a retailer every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[havanaclub]

4 hours ago, Lotusguy said:

I’m sorry but some of that pricing is ridiculous - I’d go with the aged from a retailer every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

What I don’t understand is someone bids 400 on a box then the next guy bids 800 and kills the action and overpays. Guess some people have more money than brains.


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[Edward7]

2 hours ago, havanaclub said:

What I don’t understand is some bids 400 on a box then the next guy bids 800 and kills the action and overpays. Guess some people have more money than brains.


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FoH acts as market maker and seller and bidder meet at a price where both will make a deal. Sounds like an efficient market dude. 

[Lotusguy]

FoH acts as market maker and seller and bidder meet at a price where both will make a deal. Sounds like an efficient market dude. 

It’s a free market - it’s just funny how people complain about the evil Facebook flippers and then you see prices well above those and nobody says a peep.

[luckme10]

Gotta blame that invisible hand.

[El Presidente]

3 hours ago, Lotusguy said:

It’s a free market - it’s just funny how people complain about the evil Facebook flippers and then you see prices well above those and nobody says a peep.

There are whiners in all fields.  

[El Presidente]

8 hours ago, Hadroxity said:

If give the option would you rather pay for a current year PSP/HQ or 4-5yr aged unknown grade cigar?

Same cost or slightly more for the aged.

Curious as to which is more important, I understand however if you took a PSP box and rested it for that amount of time you’d get the best of both.

Depends on why those cigars are aged. Set aside in a retailer aged program, no problem. Aged by a reputable individual...no problem.

Passed over by other walk in clients or from dodgy years in a troublesome format,  current production every time in those circumstances

[havanaclub]

FoH acts as market maker and seller and bidder meet at a price where both will make a deal. Sounds like an efficient market dude. 

Not saying anything about FoH, nothing but great things to say.
Like is said, I don’t understand some of the insane outbidding. It’s like people that want the box outbid by hundreds of dollars. I don’t buy vintage stuff and don’t know the prices of them, I just buy here on 24, Cuba and age myself. Just an observation.


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[wineguy]

9 hours ago, Lotusguy said:

I’m sorry but some of that pricing is ridiculous - I’d go with the aged from a retailer every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Agree with you some of the pricing is crazy from my perspective but clearly some have deeper pockets than I do.  I have made a few nice pick ups at what I thought was a reasonable premium for the age.

[Markspring1978]

7 hours ago, Edward7 said:

FoH acts as market maker and seller and bidder meet at a price where both will make a deal. Sounds like an efficient market dude. 

Hard to know what the real “market” is, until there is an auto bid feature enabled. I know some have entered high bids, not knowing that the price they entered will automatically be bid. 

[SigmundChurchill]

I say grade.  But I feel that long term aging is a remnant from times past, when I often received boxes that were unsmokable without aging them for a very long time.  The cigars coming out of Cuba these days are much more smokable at younger ages, so I will take a box of exceptional looking cigars with a 2 year old box code over a box of average looking cigars with a 7 year old box code.

[JLinz]

When answering this question, I think you have to consider the marca.  Is it a marca known for its consistency?  Is it a marca known to generally improve with age?  If yes to both, then I go with age.  If no to both, then I go grade.  If yes to one and no to the other, then reasonable minds can differ.

[teamrandr]

Both!  I would just split the purchase.

[nKostyan]

What I don’t understand is someone bids 400 on a box then the next guy bids 800 and kills the action and overpays. Guess some people have more money than brains.


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I have nothing against such bets. Auction is a gambling duel, not just a purchase. Respect powerful bids

[Wailbait]

All things being equal, I choose age over grade IF the cigar I am looking to purchase comports with year and code that I am looking for/familiar with.  

[Phillys]

Grade 95% of the time

[TBird55]

Quality for me, I  can wait for them to age...gives you something to look forward to....

[El Presidente]

8 hours ago, havanaclub said:

Like is said, I don’t understand some of the insane outbidding. It’s like people that want the box outbid by hundreds of dollars. 

 

as of last week, some 92% of boxes have been listed at sellers purchase price as a reserve.  FOH Auctions clearance rate is just over 98% 

Analysis of final sell price reflects an average 5 % year on year gain for everyday stock. There are outliers/standouts on boxes that are internationally sought (like Behike). 

In the end the final price paid = how much the person wants the box = what the value is for him or her.  There is no "formulae" for that. 

For individuals to complain about a final price is nuts. Someone wanted it more and they threw in a higher marker. 

FB box flippers are simply part of the new game. They come in many forms  and as long as the cigars are legitimate and as represented then I cannot see why there is a problem. 

You buy the seller.  I would likely pay more for a cigar from FOHAuctions on a Behike 52   than from Don Diego on FB Cuba #*#* with 2 previous sales record who purported picked them up from LCDH Partagas a few years back.

A good auction should see a happy seller and a happy buyer.  That is the only measure that counts

Don't worry about the "Chicken Littles" of the world.  Some people just get off on negativity and they will never change regardless of the topic 

For the record, FOH Auctions updates are on track for an October launch. 

[PigFish]

As usual, I have to take an offbeat stance.

What is age to a cigar? The textbook answer will prevail.

What is a quality cigar? A dark shiny wrapper??? Again, textbook answers, as I see it.

A quality cigar is one that tastes good, and there is not a person I know that can reliably judge a good tasting cigar from a bad one by looking at it. While i prefer a good looking cigar to a bad one, it does not change how they taste or age.

If you buy current stock for reasonable prices from a reliable source, like our host, you will get as close to good cigars (without tasting them) as you can. 

If you must have a cigar, pay the premium. I can see buying cigars that are no longer made that I have liked, but that does not mean that the taste will be worth the price I pay. If there are still cigars that I like being made it makes more sense to me, to buy more of them and take the same monetary risk for more cigars. With more chances to get a great cigar, the more great cigars one will likely get.

A good cigar does not need to sit in a box to get to be good. It need not be old or pretty. It is the magic inside that makes them good. You have to smoke them to experience the magic! The more you buy and smoke the chances at the magic. It is real simple as I see it.

-the Pig

[Riverstyx]

On 8/25/2019 at 5:45 PM, El Presidente said:

as of last week, some 92% of boxes have been listed at sellers purchase price as a reserve.  FOH Auctions clearance rate is just over 98% 

Analysis of final sell price reflects an average 5 % year on year gain for everyday stock. There are outliers/standouts on boxes that are internationally sought (like Behike). 

In the end the final price paid = how much the person wants the box = what the value is for him or her.  There is no "formulae" for that. 

For individuals to complain about a final price is nuts. Someone wanted it more and they threw in a higher marker. 

FB box flippers are simply part of the new game. They come in many forms  and as long as the cigars are legitimate and as represented then I cannot see why there is a problem. 

You buy the seller.  I would likely pay more for a cigar from FOHAuctions on a Behike 52   than from Don Diego on FB Cuba #*#* with 2 previous sales record who purported picked them up from LCDH Partagas a few years back.

A good auction should see a happy seller and a happy buyer.  That is the only measure that counts

Don't worry about the "Chicken Littles" of the world.  Some people just get off on negativity and they will never change regardless of the topic 

For the record, FOH Auctions updates are on track for an October launch. 

Thanks for the color!  Regarding "Analysis of final sell price reflects an average 5% year on year gain for everyday stock," does this take in to account the 10% buyers fee? 

 

 

[BrightonCorgi]

If buying blind, I'll take the grade.  That is the one "for sure thing"...  I can wait it out until they are 4-5 years old for most cigars. 

If I can see both boxes, who knows which one I will pick.