Perspective request from our UK ?? brethren..

[Ethernut]

I’m seeing a lot of twitter activity in the U.K. around sweeping neighborhoods for such innocuous things as pliers, screwdrivers and scissors. What the heck is going on? Being from the USA, and not understanding the context, outside looking in, I’m fairly confused. 

This if youre on twitter, follow #OpSceptre hashtag to see it all going down.. 

[oliverdst]

I read somewhere that crimes with knives are raising. I think it's related.

I dont live in UK.

[Fuzz]

Violent crime is on the rise in the UK, mostly gang related from what I read. Those items were found in a sweep near a school, so most likely hidden around.

And if anyone says they are going overboard, let's face it, a tradie is not going to be hiding his tools around on the off chance he has a job in that neighborhood. If they were hidden, somebody was obviously up to no good.

[gweilgi]

Access to guns is seriously restricted in the UK.

For evildoers, that means looking for alternatives.  Knives are also highly regulated -- lockable blades are flat out banned, and pocket knives may not have blades longer than 3 inches.  In addition, if the police do find a knife on you, then you had better have a damned good reason for having it.

There is a bit of a wave of knife crime at the moment, so police are very much on the lookout for those ... and a household tool is not only not covered by legislation, it is also far easier to explain away.  "Officer, I have this screwdriver in my pocket because I was rewiring a plug on my granny's old toaster" is less likely to get a kid into trouble than "sorry, officer, I was cutting some ham earlier and must have absent-mindedly put the knife in my pocket".

For a list of restricted and banned items:

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

[Fuzz]

I hardly think there are a whole lot of youths fixing their granny's toasters! If I were a cop, I'd be saying, "And where does your granny live? Let's go over and have a chat with her..."

I'd be more inclined to think you're up to something rather than helping out granny.

[NSXCIGAR]

Thank god. My uncle was viciously murdered by a 4-inch file-wielding madman. Get those things off the street. 

[99call]

2 hours ago, Ethernut said:

What the heck is going on?

I remember being at school in the UK, if anyone carried any weapons, you were rightfully mocked for being pathetic. Similarly in a pub, if anybody got in a fight and smashed a bottle neck/grabbed a pint pot to defend themselves, they would be mocked. 

I love that in our country there is the common held passion, of nobody carrying weapons, quite simply there is no need.  If someone was pulled over by police out camping in Scotland, and was found with a Swiss army knife, common sense would prevail, and they would not care at all. 

Areas like of South London, currently have lots of disenfranchised kids that are adamant that they need a knife to protect themselves!!?  but this is just from some other idiot teenager with a knife. What they need is a role model and a job, and to get integrated into normal society. If you get involved in drugs and stand on street corners in gangs, yes your going to get stabbed. 

I hope the UK will forever be a country where the only thing people can pull out their pockets, is their bare hands. 

[Fuzz]

 

18 minutes ago, 99call said:

I remember being at school in the UK, if anyone carried any weapons, you were rightfully mocked for being pathetic. Similarly in a pub, if anybody got in a fight and smashed a bottle neck/grabbed a pint pot to defend themselves, they would be mocked. 

I love that in our country there is the common held passion, of nobody carrying weapons, quite simply there is no need.  If someone was pulled over by police out camping in Scotland, and was found with a Swiss army knife, common sense would prevail, and they would not care at all. 

Areas like of South London, currently have lots of disenfranchised kids that are adamant that they need a knife to protect themselves!!?  but this is just from some other idiot teenager with a knife. What they need is a role model and a job, and to get integrated into normal society. If you get involved in drugs and stand on street corners in gangs, yes your going to get stabbed. 

I hope the UK will forever be a country where the only thing people can pull out their pockets, is their bare hands. 

Here, here! When I was young, that was the only thing you had to be worried about... the other guy's fists. Back to bare knuckle fisticuffs!

[ayepatz]

I grew up in Glasgow, which, back in the 1970s, had a bit of a reputation as rough city.

One evening, in George Square in the city centre, a mate of mine and I were accosted by a yob who demanded we give him our wallets.

Naturally, I indicated where he could go, in the time-honoured tradition, at which point he clumsily produced a penknife from his pocket.

“I’m serious!” he declared while fumbling to open the blade.

”Evidently.” said my mate, and we dissolved into laughter.

The guy turned bright red and walked away.

Priceless. ?

[gweilgi]

54 minutes ago, ayepatz said:

I grew up in Glasgow, which, back in the 1970s, had a bit of a reputation as rough city.

One evening, in George Square in the city centre, a mate of mine and I were accosted by a yob who demanded we give him our wallets.

Naturally, I indicated where he could go, in the time-honoured tradition, at which point he clumsily produced a penknife from his pocket.

“I’m serious!” he declared while fumbling to open the blade.

”Evidently.” said my mate, and we dissolved into laughter.

The guy turned bright red and walked away.

Priceless. ?

"a bit of a reputation"?  That takes my nomination as the British understatement of the month!

As for that unfortunate would-be mugger, gotta give him credit for having the big clanking balls to try that in Glasgow....

[Ethernut]

Thanks for your time gents with your perspectives gents from over the pond. 

Just keying off comments about fisticuffs. I completely understand and identify with that. I think I recall a statistic that in the 1960's the top 2 problems in High School were chewing gum and talking.

Fundamental differences in weapon culture between us aside... When I was a young man in high school (I'm 43) I recall guys bringing guns to school hanging on the gun racks in their pickup trucks. It was innocuous (in my little world anyway). Never. Ever. were we concerned about them using them on a human being. It'd be very unthinkable. I've been in a more than a few fights myself and only once was I concerned about a guy pulling a knife in that era. Now? I'm darned careful to keep my emotions in check with anyone "in the wild." 

We've seen a fundamental change in how people view human life and their outlets for their frustration in the last 30 years of my lifetime. It's scary for sure -

Thanks for your time in responding UK brethren!

[Corylax18]

Of course crime is on the rise. The police are all busy playing with their new metal detectors in the park. Where are the photos of the street toughs they arrested? And the Knives they confiscated from them?

I'm struggling to connect this rusty pile of abandoned tools with a safer United Kingdom. Seriously, this is something you pay an assistant grounds keeper 10 quid an hour to do, only when you don't have anything more productive for them to do. Look at the pride beaming from the faces of those two officers as they poke around in the dirt picking up recyclables and screwdrivers. If this is really the best use of the Police forces time, then You've Won. Lay off half the force and spend that money on something else. 

[torsion]

I grew up in the UK (now based in US) and just came back on Sunday from being in London in 5 weeks. The news all the time I was there was that is an alarming increase in knife and gun crime.

The days of fisticuff fighting is over and now these kids are carrying knives or sharp object as an answer for defense, as @99call mentions these kids are disenfranchised/into drugs and gangs which doesn't help.

There was also some news about a 78 year old man who (rightfully) defended himself and his wife against two burglars who entered his home in the night, he stabbed one who died. The man was initially arrested for murder-how ridiculous is that? Apparently the burglars were armed with screwdrivers. If anyone steps foot on my property they should be prepared for the consequences.

Anyway that last paragraph slightly off topic but it made me mad that the police arrested him.

 

[99call]

1 hour ago, Corylax18 said:

Of course crime is on the rise. The police are all busy playing with their new metal detectors in the park. Where are the photos of the street toughs they arrested? And the Knives they confiscated from them?

I'm struggling to connect this rusty pile of abandoned tools with a safer United Kingdom. Seriously, this is something you pay an assistant grounds keeper 10 quid an hour to do, only when you don't have anything more productive for them to do. Look at the pride beaming from the faces of those two officers as they poke around in the dirt picking up recyclables and screwdrivers. If this is really the best use of the Police forces time, then You've Won. Lay off half the force and spend that money on something else. 

The police officers i've met in the uk, are fair, even handed, intelligent individuals, who are willing any given situation to end without violence.  I will take this any day, over other options seen across the world. 

Increased violence is due to the Tories choking the country to death with public service cuts, but strangely not in areas like South Kensington. 

 

[Corylax18]

15 minutes ago, 99call said:

The police officers i've met in the uk, are fair, even handed, intelligent individuals, who are willing any given situation to end without violence.  I will take this any day, over other options seen across the world. 

Increased violence is due to the Tories choking the country to death with public service cuts, but strangely not in areas like South Kensington. 

 

My post was not intended to denigrate the officers themselves. Pretty much everything I've seen regarding UK police officers reinforces your statement above. What I am saying is that using these highly(expensively) trained, and as you've stated intelligent, professionals to sift through the yard scraps at a playground looking for screwdrivers is a waste of the taxpayers money on a mind bending level. The Regents Park Police should be ashamed of themselves, not posting this for the world to see. Whoever, at the higher levels, has made the choice to use the police force like garbage men should be removed from public service immediately, their IQ should probably be checked as well. 

You can blame the increase in violence on what ever you like, I dont know enough about daily life in the UK to opine accurately there. I do know enough to say that if this is the best response they can muster to that violence, then the violence will continue to escalate.   

[99call]

22 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

 You can blame the increase in violence on what ever you like, I dont know enough about daily life in the UK to opine accurately there. I do know enough to say that if this is the best response they can muster to that violence, then the violence will continue to escalate.   

I can agree with you that it looks pretty sketchy. We do have "community support officers" who are better placed to do this kind of thing, if not convicted criminals themselves doing community service.  Although maybe a locked up criminal picking of a hacksaw during the day may end in tears Ha!

Sorry mate didn't mean to have a knee jerk reaction. It's just very frustrating at the moment. The government are pushing all the social services to the brink, so they can say that they are failing, and need to be privatised, then they and all there rich friends give each other billion pound contracts, and sail off into the sunset, meanwhile, the poorest in society are suffering. 

 

[hedgeybaby]

There is a correlation between the fact that London has descended into a cess pit and something else, but what, it pains me to remember.

It also doesn't help that the mayor of London is inept and the British Police think its more important to investigate what people say on facebook and twitter than actually fight crime. If you are robbed or burgled you will be given a crime number and nothing else.

It hurts to say that whilst I love my country deeply, it has turned into a complete and utter farce. 

 

[garbandz]

A Defective on the Police Farce ?

 

[gweilgi]

8 hours ago, 99call said:

The police officers i've met in the uk, are fair, even handed, intelligent individuals, who are willing any given situation to end without violence.  I will take this any day, over other options seen across the world. 

Amen to that.  

British police officers, by and large, know that the best weapon they have to enforce the law and keep public order is their brains.  The guiding mantra of policing in the UK is not "zero tolerance" or "impartial enforcement" or even "keep them quiet using any means you feel like", but "policing by consent".  This means the police, by their actions and demeanour, have to EARN the respect and willing cooperation of the public.  It does not mean respecting a copper because he or she represents the law, or because they may carry a gun, or out of fear of reprisals.  It means we respect them and their work because by and large, we agree with what and how they are doing it.  

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/policing-by-consent/definition-of-policing-by-consent

This is fairly unique, as far as I can tell.  

 

8 hours ago, 99call said:

Increased violence is due to the Tories choking the country to death with public service cuts, but strangely not in areas like South Kensington. 

 

There, too, I'm afraid.  Where once genuine bobbies walked down the street, that chore has now been devolved to Community Support Officers even in the genteel streets of the Royal Borough.  Real coppers are far too busy doing paperwork, back at the station.  

[gweilgi]

8 hours ago, FatherOfPugs said:

 Everything the government touches it screws up (e.g., USPS vs. FedEx or UPS, I'll take FedEx or UPS any day of the week and pay a little more for better service).

You may not like the USPS, but it's a constitutional duty ... Article I, Section 8.  So no chance of getting rid of it anytime soon...

[Vortigan]

It's one part of the broader rise in violence and tensions across Europe as a whole. I know, and so do you, what's largely central to it but I'm not allowed to say it, of course.

 

[cmbarton]

17 hours ago, Fuzz said:

 

Here, here! When I was young, that was the only thing you had to be worried about... the other guy's fists. Back to bare knuckle fisticuffs!

Reminds me of a time when I was a youngster walking back home from school, there was a bully a few years older than me who would suddenly appear from behind a corner, clock me on the mouth for no reason, and walk away without saying a word.  Serious issues this guy had.  I’d never been in a fight, and usually the punch would happen and be over with before I realized what happened.

This old manthat lived along the way to my house was doing yard work one day when he saw me with a bloody lip, asked what happened, and then asked why I never punch back.  When I said I’d never punched someone before, he gave me an old school lesson in fisticuffs.  This guy fought in WWII and I’m sure found himself in a few tight spots in his life, so I figured I could stand up to this bully.  

Next time the bully jumped out to clock me, I was ready.  I never knew a quick jab to the jaw could knock even the toughest guy down on his backside.  He wiggled around on the ground for a bit after he came back to his senses, then got up and walked away rubbing his jaw.  

That was the last time I ever saw that kid. Or the old man for that matter, but I think about him from time to time and the great lesson he taught me about self-respect.

 

[Vortigan]

3 minutes ago, cmbarton said:

Reminds me of a time when I was a youngster walking back home from school, there was a bully a few years older than me who would suddenly appear from behind a corner, clock me on the mouth for no reason, and walk away without saying a word.  Serious issues this guy had.  I’d never been in a fight, and usually the punch would happen and be over with before I realized what happened.

This old manthat lived along the way to my house was doing yard work one day when he saw me with a bloody lip, asked what happened, and then asked why I never punch back.  When I said I’d never punched someone before, he gave me an old school lesson in fisticuffs.  This guy fought in WWII and I’m sure found himself in a few tight spots in his life, so I figured I could stand up to this bully.  

Next time the bully jumped out to clock me, I was ready.  I never knew a quick jab to the jaw could knock even the toughest guy down on his backside.  He wiggled around on the ground for a bit after he came back to his senses, then got up and walked away rubbing his jaw.  

That was the last time I ever saw that kid. Or the old man for that matter, but I think about him from time to time and the great lesson he taught me about self-respect.

 

My dad taught me that exact same lesson, yielding similar results, I'm pleased to say 

[OZCUBAN]

?

[Vortigan]

8 hours ago, hedgeybaby said:

There is a correlation between the fact that London has descended into a cess pit and something else, but what, it pains me to remember.

It also doesn't help that the mayor of London is inept and the British Police think its more important to investigate what people say on facebook and twitter than actually fight crime. If you are robbed or burgled you will be given a crime number and nothing else.

It hurts to say that whilst I love my country deeply, it has turned into a complete and utter farce. 

 

Nailed it!