American English!???? AGGGGAHHHAHARRRR!!!!

[AlohaStyle]

You need a cigar... 

[dvickery]

In the not distant future ... you will all be speaking "Canadian"  .

g'day all y'all eh

derrek

[scap99]

1 hour ago, SirVantes said:

Controversy.  But can we all agree:

.

3. As regards Americanisms, well, it's soft power.  Until some Brit sells more trainers than Jordan, the world will buy sneakers. And they will buy them from a store, not a shop.  In a mall, not a shopping centre.  Or they may just burglarize them. 

 

Muggings aren't the same as burglaries....lol

[planetary]

"Burglarize"?  Child's play when compared to the evils of corporate double-speak.

[Booyaa]

English is mostly a bastardisation of other languages so this is just a natural occurrence. I don't really see a problem.

Also, if you work internationally, any decent company would have a set style for which "version" of English to use. In my firm, being American owned, if it is for company wide/global use then the American English is the correct format, if it is for local release, we should use the correct local version, whatever that region uses.

[planetary]

3 minutes ago, Hutch said:

It's pretty silly for your friend to be correcting you. But equally as silly for you to be correcting others

As a card-carrying ***hole who has been known to correct people from time to time, I think that really depends on the nature of the perceived mistake!

 

[topdiesel]

Yup, I am pretty sure some German guy was sitting around complaining about how these Britains were creating a bastardization of his wonderful Frisian language.  It probably affected his function-ability.

 

 

[99call]

14 minutes ago, Booyaa said:

English is mostly a bastardisation of other languages so this is just a natural occurrence. I don't really see a problem.

Also, if you work internationally, any decent company would have a set style for which "version" of English to use. In my firm, being American owned, if it is for company wide/global use then the American English is the correct format, if it is for local release, we should use the correct local version, whatever that region uses.

In this particular instance, the American had been told we were operating with 'English', but was continuing to alter settings, and attempting to correct people within the company. This instance shouldn't really hold much weight however, as she was an utter gimp, and this was the least of her f**k up's.

I think the key question to any evolution of language should be, is addition or change an improvement? if not,  whomever is attempting to make the addition/change should to told to f**k off!

This particular colleague used to say things like:

"whats the salvageability of these items"  

when someone with a fully functioning brain would say:

"can these items be salvaged?"

[ayepatz]

As a Scot, I object to the term "English". ?

[topdiesel]

2 minutes ago, 99call said:

In this particular instance, the American had been told we were operating with 'English', but was continuing to alter settings, and attempting to correct people within the company. This instance shouldn't really hold much weight however, as she was an utter gimp, and this was the least of her f**k up's.

I think the key question to any evolution of language should be, is addition or change an improvement? if not,  whomever is attempting to make the addition/change should to told to f**k off!

This particular colleague used to say things like:

"whats the salvageability of these items"  

when someone with a fully functioning brain would say:

"can these items be salvaged?"

The real issue seems to be a lack of respect for local dialect and customs and a sense of superiority regarding their culture. It would be just as disrespectful for you to impose your beliefs if you worked in the USA.  Instead of just bashing American culture, perhaps this could have been the focus from the beginning.  I think more people would relate.  Maybe not.

[99call]

8 minutes ago, topdiesel said:

The real issue seems to be a lack of respect for local dialect and customs and a sense of superiority regarding their culture. It would be just as disrespectful for you to impose your beliefs if you worked in the USA.  Instead of just bashing American culture, perhaps this could have been the focus from the beginning.  I think more people would relate.  Maybe not.

Im not attempting to bash anyone, and I've worked all over the world, and stepped in line wherever I've been.  I'm simply saying the American English that I see seeping into every day life hear in the Uk, Is just needless elongation of words that provide no improvement whatsoever.  To me, it's a dumbing down of the English language, and I just think it's a pity.

[MooseAMuffin]

NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!! 

Oh wait, wrong thread? 

[Corylax18]

In my eyes we're discussing two issues here. Local dialects and the degradation of the spoken/written word. My father was an english major in college, because of this he was constantly correcting correcting my brothers grammar/pronunciation, when we were little. 6, 7, 8 years old he was harping on "proper" English, and how to speak/write eloquently. I still to this day correct grammar mistakes that my friends make, it bugs me almost as much as it bugs them......

But to my point, Local dialectic differences have always existed, and I think always will, to some extent. Three different versions of spanish are spoken in Spain, Mexico, and Cuba. The word "Pinche" is my favorite example. In Cuba or Spain it doesnt mean a thing, but in Mexico (or around the right company in the states) its a pretty offensive word. I learned it when I learned "Mexican" spanish working construction jobs late in highschool into college. I have no problem with these differences, quite the opposite actually. 

Where I can get on board with your agreement is the "dumbing down" of languages. Your statement below hits the nail on the head for me:

"I think the key question to any evolution of language should be, is addition or change an improvement? if not,  whomever is attempting to make the addition/change should to told to f**k off!"

Languages have evolved constantly over time, but the above describes to me a step backwards step (disevolution?) As you said, adding unneeded and grammatically incorrect words or modifiers does not entail an evolution. It looks and sounds a lot like people who don't have a solid grasp of the language trying to make themselves sound smarter, but actually accomplishing the opposite. 

I didn't personally take your OP as a swipe at the USA/Americans, but unfortunately I have to agree that we are leading the charge in this respect. Our education system is antiquated and ineffectual, we teach kids things like where to plot a dot on a graph  (super useful long term), but cant seem to ensure they speak English or can complete the simple math necessary to balance a check book. Add to that the growing informality of our "communication methods" and I agree, it does appear we are taking a step back. 

I'm sure Shakespeare thought the same thing at one point though and he was probably right. But damn, I am glad we dont all still speak Elizabethan, what pain that would be. 

[JamesKPolkEsq]

 

[El Presidente]

7 hours ago, Colt45 said:

I think that that's Australian english.

Colt.....it is just called "Australian".  We want nothing to do with them 

[luv2fly]

"I aint gonna say aint no more cuz aint aint no word....."

I live in the south.  Sometimes I have no clue what is being said.  There is American English but there are many, many variations.  Some day there will be a universal translator like in Star Trek.

Edit:  My mother was a grammar teacher.  She constantly corrected me and does so now, from time to time.

[Nino]

9 hours ago, 99call said:

Do you think a Cuban should try and correct a Spaniard on their use of Spanish?  

 

Hahahaha -

being originally Spanish and a Castilian or "Oxford"-Spanish speaker I can tell you after some 15 years of visiting Cuba that them ex-subjects of the Spanish crown have succeeded in turning MY Castilian high Spanish into Cuban ...
 
Whenever I visit Span now people look at me and wonder why I use Cuban words and have a funny accent while the Cubans admire my Spanish accent and can't believe I'm German ...

LSD trip sounds about right and tell you what - I love it

[99call]

23 minutes ago, nino said:

Hahahaha -

being originally Spanish and a Castilian or "Oxford"-Spanish speaker I can tell you after some 15 years of visiting Cuba that them ex-subjects of the Spanish crown have succeeded in turning MY Castilian high Spanish into Cuban ...
 
Whenever I visit Span now people look at me and wonder why I use Cuban words and have a funny accent while the Cubans admire my Spanish accent and can't believe I'm German ...

LSD trip sounds about right and tell you what - I love it

 

Hello Nino,

Just checked out your webpage, (I've not come across it before) very cool, I'll enjoy reading through it.

If people feel as if there are additions to their dialect or language that improve their ability to communicate, then this is creative and great.  What I was saying was, if someone augments a language in ways that make it murky and confused, then this shouldn't be seen as creative, but the opposite, destructive.

[ayepatz]

Whilst neologisms may sometimes be something of an eyesore (Shakespeare), they inevitably make me chortle (Carroll). 

Cyberspace (Gibson) may well be, at the best of times, somewhat pedestrian (Wordsworth) in its approach to accurate syntax, but one should embrace such pandemonium (Milton).

New words are the lifeblood of language. Don't misunderestimate them.

 

[stogieluver]

Come spend a day or two down here in south Alabama, (or anywhere is the southern U. S.).  You'll need some therapy.

[99call]

17 minutes ago, ayepatz said:

Whilst neologisms may sometimes be something of an eyesore (Shakespeare), they inevitably make me chortle (Carroll). 

Cyberspace (Gibson) may well be, at the best of times, somewhat pedestrian (Wordsworth) in its approach to accurate syntax, but one should embrace such pandemonium (Milton).

New words are the lifeblood of language. Don't misunderestimate them.

 

Please forgive the lack of clarity. I don't see the genuinely creative evolution of language as being negative.  I do however see people aimlessly adding  "ization" or "ability" onto every single possible word, as degenerating the quality of the language

[Colt45]

1 hour ago, El Presidente said:

Colt.....it is just called "Australian".  We want nothing to do with them 

I'll remember that come October 2nd  

[Akela3rd]

Come spend a day or two down here in south Alabama, (or anywhere is the southern U. S.).  You'll need some therapy.

 

Or Cumbria in NW England.

Yan, tan, tetherer, netherer, pip = one, two, three, four, five in Cumbrian dialect. Used almost exclusively in counting sheep. Fact.

 

Thunder & Lightening '75-'15

 

 

 

[ayepatz]

47 minutes ago, 99call said:

Please forgive the lack of clarity. I don't see the genuinely creative evolution of language as being negative.  I do however see people aimlessly adding  "ization" or "ability" onto every single possible word, as degenerating the quality of the language

I'm only joshing. I looked all of those up online. ?

A more useful reply would have been to point out that, whilst English may be the first language of the U.S., not all Americans are descended from an English heritage.

The adding of endings, such as "ization" or "ability", is a trait, not only found in English, but commonly found in German, where the adding of suffixes such as "-ung", "-schaft", "-keit", and "-heit" to form new nouns from other nouns, verbs, and adjectives is a vital part of the language.

In a nation whose populace is composed of people with diverse backgrounds, it's not surprising that other languages influence the way English is spoken.

 

[gweilgi]

8 hours ago, SirVantes said:

 

3. As regards Americanisms, well, it's soft power.  Until some Brit sells more trainers than Jordan, the world will buy sneakers. And they will buy them from a store, not a shop.  In a mall, not a shopping centre.  Or they may just burglarize them. 

I believe the Australian term is "sand shoes".  Any road, the proper term is not "trainers" but "plimsolls".

The operative phrase of your post is "soft power", as far as I am concerned.  Of course there are regional differences.  There are accents, dialects, creoles, pidgin versions of English.  There is Singlish and Hinglish.  All of them are as valid as any other, in their place and context.  My gripe would not be that other folk speechify in their own way (thanks, GWB, for this delectable addition to the dictionary!) but that soft power actually invades and usurps local modes of speech.  The language we speak influences the way we think.  The language we speak is the single most powerful way of expressing and shaping our culture.  For another version of English, then, to take over local speech effectively undermines and even threatens local culture -- especially as what tends to be exported is not really the actual language used by ordinary Americans in their daily live but the specialised vocabulary and expressions from TV, Hollywood and music.  It is a very particular sub-set of American English.  

Moreover, like all local modes of English, American has idioms and expressions that are rooted in USaian culture and context.  Import them, and the context is lost.  And yes,the same does apply to British or Australian or any other form of English when it is transplanted.  Meaning is lost, or mangled.  And this does not even have to be slang, ordinary language will experience this as well.  I find this lamentable.  But then, as always, YMMV...