American English!???? AGGGGAHHHAHARRRR!!!!

[MIKA27]

3 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Colt.....it is just called "Australian".  We want nothing to do with them 

Absolutely not!

Imagine Australian's sounding like this! @99call imagine the PC auto-correcting standard words into Rhyming slang, then you'd have a great point bud

Thank god the POMS are in Perth

I think no matter what "Type" of English language is written, so long as one can make heads or tails of what is being articulated, there really isn't any issue IMO.

 

 

[gweilgi]

36 minutes ago, ayepatz said:

I'm only joshing. I looked all of those up online. ?

A more useful reply would have been to point out that, whilst English may be the first language of the U.S., not all Americans are descended from an English heritage.

The adding of endings, such as "ization" or "ability", is a trait, not only found in English, but commonly found in German, where the adding of suffixes such as "-ung", "-schaft", "-keit", and "-heit" to form new nouns from other nouns, verbs, and adjectives is a vital part of the language.

 

As a matter of fact, German importation and misapplication of English is *much* worse than American imports into Australia or England.  They were so proud to have a "proper" English word for their mobile phone (sort, cellphone): a "handy".  When Germans go to a "public viewing", they are not paying their last respects to a recently deceased person, they are attending an open-air broadcast of a sporting or music event.  A "blow-up" in German is not enhancing a photograph or an explosion, but the buckling of seams on motorway tarmac in extreme heat.  And so on....

[CigarmanTim]

13 hours ago, Colt45 said:

I believe the proper english is you're.

Zing!   

[dangolf18]

And where exactly are you from?

[gweilgi]

Digressing a bit, but here's a quick guide to British English usages that others may find confusing .... a good illustration of different nations disunited by the use of a common language.

[cigcars]

    My major in college was Communication Arts, mainly concentrating on language, speech, and most importantly according to our professor(s) BEING UNDERSTOOD!!!  They gave us a demonstration using perfect, correct grammar and its positioning in sentence statement/arrangement, etc. And nobody knew WHAT THE BUCK THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT!  Then the professor would speak using "our" way of everyday usage of language...and was understood perfectly. The point of the lesson was to be UNDERSTOOD...and SCREW the saying of it "poly purebread perfectly"!  To confirm 99call's  observation...one of our professors said that we Americans DON'T speak "English"...we speak "Americanese"! And that was his claim. We DON'T speak the King's English. We Americans speak a conglomerate of language made up of many cultures, nationalities, immigrant influences, etc., etc. You want a common language history lesson --? Much of our supposed "slang" speech is based on native African language that was lost or destroyed in the diaspora but was used by the newly Americanized Africans:

    * "Okay" is from the African word "Yawkay", meaning "alright!"  "You dig?" as in the Jazz culture's tongue was from the African word, "Dega" meaning to "understand".  The banjo is a bastardization of the word "banzar" which is the musical instrument. From Cameroon their word for "White people" was "Bukra" or "Buckra", which is where you get the word "buckaroo" used out west. Some of the southern Blacks would be admonishing their children saying, "Gal, you've been in this here Buckle country this long and don't know how to..." as far as knowing better about doing or not doing something. From South Africa the so-called "Bantu" folks called their pens that they kept their cattle inside of "Kraals", which we in States now call "Corrals". And of course not to mention the numerous and uncountable number of phrases for doing someone in: "Smoked" "Eighty-Sixed" "Waste"...endless. South African kings and chiefs from yesteryear, when they wanted someone executed was to order them to made to "Eat Earth!" 

  A very interesting topic, not sure what it has to do with cigars, but hey, I'M game!  

[MIKA27]

4 minutes ago, cigcars said:

 

  A very interesting topic, not sure what it has to do with cigars, but hey, I'M game!  

There's only so much one can speak about Cigars that hasn't already been discussed 100 times over... I think different topics break up the day.

[anacostiakat]

You have touched on a pet peeve of mine but in a somewhat sideways using the burglar issue.  Can not understand how you can have a "serial burglar".    Just seems stupid to me.  So the person breaks into houses the same way?  How many ways are there?  Just saying....

[Fuzz]

8 hours ago, ayepatz said:

I'm only joshing. I looked all of those up online. ?

A more useful reply would have been to point out that, whilst English may be the first language of the U.S., not all Americans are descended from an English heritage.

The adding of endings, such as "ization" or "ability", is a trait, not only found in English, but commonly found in German, where the adding of suffixes such as "-ung", "-schaft", "-keit", and "-heit" to form new nouns from other nouns, verbs, and adjectives is a vital part of the language.

In a nation whose populace is composed of people with diverse backgrounds, it's not surprising that other languages influence the way English is spoken.

 

If you think that's bad, wait till you hear people add the suffix "ing" to a foreign word. First time I heard that was in HK when a cousin asked me what I was "linging". One translation of "Ling" in Cantonese means "take", so "Linging" means "taking".

[Spanishcedar]

I s'pose we can all agree that der may be a lil mis-speaken here an' der; fortunately, 'bout half time, seems like all you need is the right cadence, maybe a few hand motions or if your writin', just the first and last couple letters and it's all hunky dorie. 

I get it, but our individual agencies can only control so much. I would certainly be hard pressed (and definitely out of energy) to make an effort to control it. I have found life to be lived better (possibly even better lived) when there is so much diversity that one can hardly bear it. This constant requirement to adapt, inevitably  breeds an ongoing effort to understand, relate and acquire parts of cultures that one might regrettably miss out on; yet, agreeably, an ominous future ahead.

[planetary]

3 hours ago, cigcars said:

    BEING UNDERSTOOD!!!

Agreed, as far as that goes.  But when you have swarms of people running around using the least-common-denominator dialect, because that's all they know, it has two effects: (1) it's bad for them, because it robs them of the ability to be socially mobile, in different contexts, and (2) it cheapens the language, as richness is lost.  Perhaps that loss is inevitable, and new phrases with similar meanings will take their place.  But to the extent that language is associated with cognitive ability, an impoverished language is equipment for impoverished minds.  

I like how fluid and adaptable English is, but accessing its depths and richness requires education and upkeep -- a price that I'm not sure our instant gratification / get-rich-quick culture is willing to pay.

Hmm.  That turned into a soapbox, didn't it?  

[Nino]

13 hours ago, cigcars said:

        * "Okay" is from the African word "Yawkay", meaning "alright!"  "You dig?" as in the Jazz culture's tongue was from the African word, "Dega" meaning to "understand".  The banjo is a bastardization of the word "banzar" which is the musical instrument. From Cameroon their word for "White people" was "Bukra" or "Buckra", which is where you get the word "buckaroo" used out west. Some of the southern Blacks would be admonishing their children saying, "Gal, you've been in this here Buckle country this long and don't know how to..." as far as knowing better about doing or not doing something. From South Africa the so-called "Bantu" folks called their pens that they kept their cattle inside of "Kraals", which we in States now call "Corrals". And of course not to mention the numerous and uncountable number of phrases for doing someone in: "Smoked" "Eighty-Sixed" "Waste"...endless. South African kings and chiefs from yesteryear, when they wanted someone executed was to order them to made to "Eat Earth!" 

  A very interesting topic, not sure what it has to do with cigars, but hey, I'M game!  

Interesting sources, but my understanding is that OK comes from military use meaning zero killed or OK.

And I'd disagree on both the origin of "buckaroo" and "Corral" - both having a Spanish origin imho, Vaquero being Spanish for cowboy and Corral being Spanish for cattle pen.
 

[JamesKPolkEsq]

A perfectly cromulent conversation!

[scap99]

3 hours ago, nino said:

Interesting sources, but my understanding is that OK comes from military use meaning zero killed or OK.

And I'd disagree on both the origin of "buckaroo" and "Corral" - both having a Spanish origin imho, Vaquero being Spanish for cowboy and Corral being Spanish for cattle pen.
 

Agreed on the Spanish words....but thought OK was from Ol Korect that one of the presidents used to write on papers he had reviewed.

[JR Kipling]

 

On 6/28/2017 at 10:15 AM, 99call said:

Im not attempting to bash anyone, and I've worked all over the world, and stepped in line wherever I've been.  I'm simply saying the American English that I see seeping into every day life hear in the Uk, Is just needless elongation of words that provide no improvement whatsoever.  To me, it's a dumbing down of the English language, and I just think it's a pity.

 

I'm more concerned about the reduction of language that I observe. Words are the tools for thinking. When vocabulary shrinks, the possibility for what can be thought is also reduced. Orwell wrote about this in his novel '1984'. 

I've read essays by American high school seniors and college students that were appalling. These were 'good students' who got 'good grades' in school. They seemed incapable of constructing a readable paragraph. Part of the blame comes from the sorry state of 'education' in the country. Part of this can likely be blamed on the use of electronic devices and texting.

[99call]

15 minutes ago, JR Kipling said:

 

 

I'm more concerned about the reduction of language that I observe. Words are the tools for thinking. When vocabulary shrinks, the possibility for what can be thought is also reduced. Orwell wrote about this in his novel '1984'. 

I've read essays by American high school seniors and college students that were appalling. These were 'good students' who got 'good grades' in school. They seemed incapable of constructing a readable paragraph. Part of the blame comes from the sorry state of 'education' in the country. Part of this can likely be blamed on the use of electronic devices and texting.

I agree entirely with your point on the reduction of language, and my focus isn't to criticise people being 'positively' creative with language. It's those that are being negatively creative with language.

[JR Kipling]

@99call - my point agrees with your observation of a general quality decline in how language is used in America.

I don't have enough extended recent experience in other English speaking Western countries, to comment. Do people observe this same phenomenon in Australia, the U.K., and Canada ?

 

[GavLew79]

My main gripe is the misuse of "then".

"My winkle is bigger *then* yours". When I see this my soul cries. 

Than. It's THAN!!!!!! A means of comparison! Mine is bigger *than* yours!!!

 

[soutso]

On 28/06/2017 at 10:07 PM, scap99 said:

Haha, if you get riled up by loose American English, wait until you are given a dose of Urban English.  I have no idea what they are saying, but they keep asking me "ya know what I'm sayin"...

 

 Agree though reserve the right to love the term, "Cash me ousside, how bow dat?"

[gweilgi]

5 hours ago, JR Kipling said:

@99call - my point agrees with your observation of a general quality decline in how language is used in America.

I don't have enough extended recent experience in other English speaking Western countries, to comment. Do people observe this same phenomenon in Australia, the U.K., and Canada ?

 

I can definitely confirm this for Australia.  Anecdotal evidence as reported to me from several relatives of my SO who are in the teaching profession suggests the decline is shocking ... not least because marking rules/guidelines do not even *allow* for the teacher to correct bad language, let alone deduct points.  And I have seen submissions for further qualifications in the financial services which suggest strongly that dyslexia is a legal requirement for financial advisers/planners in Australia.

Oh, and for absolute proof positive that the quality of language has declined in Australia: every single bloody edition of the Sydney Morning Herald.  My only explanation is that either the editors are functionally illiterate, or they seem to work on the assumption that "proof-reading" means "reading while pissed on 70 proof grog".  Or both.  

 

[scap99]

2 hours ago, soutso said:

 Agree though reserve the right to love the term, "Cash me ousside, how bow dat?"

[gweilgi]

Dearest creature in creation,
Study English pronunciation.
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.
I will keep you, Suzy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.
Tear in eye, your dress will tear.
So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.

Just compare heart, beard, and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,
Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written.)
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as plaque and ague.
But be careful how you speak:
Say break and steak, but bleak and streak;
Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.

Hear me say, devoid of trickery,
Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore,
Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles,
Exiles, similes, and reviles;
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war and far;
One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel;
Gertrude, German, wind and mind,
Scene, Melpomene, mankind.

Billet does not rhyme with ballet,
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Viscous, viscount, load and broad,
Toward, to forward, to reward.
And your pronunciation's OK
When you correctly say croquet,
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive and live.

Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
And enamour rhyme with hammer.
River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.
Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
Souls but foul, haunt but aunt,
Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant,
Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger,
And then singer, ginger, linger,
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.

Query does not rhyme with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.
Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth.
Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath.
Though the differences seem little,
We say actual but victual.
Refer does not rhyme with deafer.
Foeffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
Mint, pint, senate and sedate;
Dull, bull, and George ate late.
Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific.

Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven.
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.
Mark the differences, moreover,
Between mover, cover, clover;
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police and lice;
Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label.

Petal, panel, and canal,
Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal.
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor.
Tour, but our and succour, four.
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
Sea, idea, Korea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean.
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion and battalion.
Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key.
Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver.
Heron, granary, canary.
Crevice and device and aerie.

Face, but preface, not efface.
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.
Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.
Ear, but earn and wear and tear
Do not rhyme with here but ere.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,
Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.

Pronunciation — think of Psyche!
Is a paling stout and spikey?
Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing groats and saying grits?
It's a dark abyss or tunnel:
Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale,
Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict and indict.

Finally, which rhymes with enough —
Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
Hiccough has the sound of cup.
My advice is to give up!!!

[jwr0201]

On June 28, 2017 at 5:57 PM, stogieluver said:

Come spend a day or two down here in south Alabama, (or anywhere is the southern U. S.).  You'll need some therapy.

Sounds about right there y'all!   

[cigcars]

10 hours ago, nino said:

Interesting sources, but my understanding is that OK comes from military use meaning zero killed or OK.

And I'd disagree on both the origin of "buckaroo" and "Corral" - both having a Spanish origin imho, Vaquero being Spanish for cowboy and Corral being Spanish for cattle pen.
 

        * I know Vaquero is Spanish...I said "Buckra" was what the Africans from Cameroon in Africa called Whites during the Atlantic Middle Passage unfortunate days. And again...stretched, slanged, etc. into "Buckaroo" later on in Oklahoma. And as I was expecting some disagreement with "Kraal"... that was what the Zulus called the enclosure for their cattle pens, and I figured some folks out there may have argued that "Kraal" may be the Dutch Boer farmers'  usage for the cattle pens too. And again that word stretched out and pronounced in our own Western tongue as "co - RAL," as in "OK Corral". The military (not sure which country or nationality's) use of OK was probably adapted later on from what turned into "Okay" from the 1500's to 1600's old central African word...again "Yawkay" meaning "alright". Some of these references can be found in 1978's "The Black Book" that came out with little know historical facts about African and African American Diaspora of from 1619 until 1921, there or abouts. 

[scap99]

10 hours ago, cigcars said:

        * I know Vaquero is Spanish...I said "Buckra" was what the Africans from Cameroon in Africa called Whites during the Atlantic Middle Passage unfortunate days. And again...stretched, slanged, etc. into "Buckaroo" later on in Oklahoma. And as I was expecting some disagreement with "Kraal"... that was what the Zulus called the enclosure for their cattle pens, and I figured some folks out there may have argued that "Kraal" may be the Dutch Boer farmers'  usage for the cattle pens too. And again that word stretched out and pronounced in our own Western tongue as "co - RAL," as in "OK Corral". The military (not sure which country or nationality's) use of OK was probably adapted later on from what turned into "Okay" from the 1500's to 1600's old central African word...again "Yawkay" meaning "alright". Some of these references can be found in 1978's "The Black Book" that came out with little know historical facts about African and African American Diaspora of from 1619 until 1921, there or abouts.