North Korea ?? Your thougjts

[Duxnutz]

Kim Jon Splat.

[ShortFatHokie]

9 hours ago, Nekhyludov said:

Short and fat, no doubt 

I resemble that remark...

[losttrailer]

3 hours ago, ggaspar said:

Yesterday I spoke with our President Vladimir Putin and he told me that if the US attacks North Korea,
 Russian nuclear missiles will be launched at Miami, Tbilisi and Woolloongabba!

Aah, really ? And our King, Horst the First signaled that if you are not going to consider paying license fees for those kind of misshapen copies of our pretzels seen in that clip, we will have to reprogram our cruise . . . aae, white sausage missiles to aim Serpuchow, Slatni pjasazi and Pattaya !

And yes, he was not barking but whispering in an conspiratorial tone of voice !

[JohnInCleveland]

6 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

That's the one thing that's always crossed my mind in the last few years. How have his closest top brass not snuffed this guy and his whole family Roman emperor style? If one thing has been proven, it's that no one is safe around this guy, even those previously thought to be untouchable. Really impressive that this guy is still alive at this point. 

Anyway, my general thoughts are that DPRK isn't really a serious threat. They have a large but ineffective army akin to Russia's in the 1930s. Their nuclear capability is very limited. Maybe a few very small-yield devices that might actually work in practice. I don't think they could launch a missile anywhere important that wouldn't be shot down. They have established a pattern of saber-rattling and getting relief or aid for decades. I think China is the holder of all the cards and if they actually started cutting off support for them as they should have done a long time ago they would totally collapse. From there, a Chinese & S. Korean contingent would have to cooperate in liberating these poor hostages that are the North Korean citizens. 

China is responsible.  They don't want the inevitable refugee crisis caused by a regime change in their backyard. It ultimately comes down to that.  They don't want to be on the side of the irrational despot any more than we would.  

[ggaspar]

15 minutes ago, losttrailer said:

Aah, really ? And our King, Horst the First signaled that if you are not going to consider paying license fees for those kind of misshapen copies of our pretzels seen in that clip, we will have to reprogram our cruise . . . aae, white sausage missiles to aim Serpuchow, Slatni pjasazi and Pattaya !

And yes, he was not barking but whispering in an conspiratorial tone of voice !

And bavarian beer missile to Moscow pls

[amaxp81]

Don't worry folks he will die of T2 diabetes before they finish development of a nuke.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[BrightonCorgi]

North Korea's regime is heading towards its last legs.  China would rather have a favorable trade deal with US and its allies than contend with support for N. Korea.  A regime change could actually play well for China depending on who is next in charge.  A long as there is no humanitarian crisis & influx to China which can be mitigated pretty easily IMO.

Tensions with NK have gone on way too long and they have little to offer the world for us to acquiesce to them as we have.  The world will make its move when the time is right.  

[99call]

The problem with modern warfare is often superpowers want to import their own understanding of democracy on foreign soil, without being able to tolerate the loss to their own people. From the Pacific conflict, to Vietnam to Afganistan etc etc. The mistake in underestimating how much smaller nations love their country, often leads to nightmare quagmires and painfully staggered withdrawals.

With China's genuine claim to be the new worlds superpower, effectively nobody wants their economy to stall, so everyone is going to insist it's not their problem. 

The dropping of nuclear bombs on Japan, issued the end of humanity within warfare. Whether its Syria or Korea, the effect of bombs launched from drones or war ships, is one that radicalises those left on the ground and multiplies their numbers across the generations. If you're fighting a war on the basis you genuinely think your life is worth more than theirs, respect and democracy will never flourish.

In my opinion, whether those in charge of North Korea are insane or not, talk with them, treat them with respect, understand why they have got themselves in such a mess. Offer them some standing in world affairs. You wont have to actually have to give them any power. Just give them a plastic golden crown, with "BIG BOSS MAN" written on it. Trick them into becoming normal. It will cost far fewer lives, and will fix the problem forever, and not just create another generation of people who hate the west.

The other option, is what seemed to happen daily in the 1980's (and worked), Just send in the SAS kill all the corrupt elite, then leave that very night. Kippers for breakfast!

Great tune on the subject, by Chris Rea.   Love the lyric "Don't point your dream on my horizon"   Some awesome guitar as well

 

[skalls]

Fat man will eventually get put down by one of his generals.

Don't see an invasion or the is firing on then unless nk does something stupid like invade SK or shell Seoul.

[NSXCIGAR]

6 hours ago, JohnInCleveland said:

China is responsible.  They don't want the inevitable refugee crisis caused by a regime change in their backyard. It ultimately comes down to that.  They don't want to be on the side of the irrational despot any more than we would.  

Agreed, China would not be thrilled by mass migration. And China may have felt they've needed to protect NK from a western-style "regime change" which they can't be really blamed for as the track record after these interventions is pretty awful. Unfortunately, it comes at the expense of allowing a wackadoodle tyrant to carry on. But if China can be convinced to stop supporting NK and let the regime collapse under it's own weight then there would be much less of a reason for refugee migration and a manageable power transition perhaps with S Korea taking the lead and the west staying out of it for the most part.

The only way the N Koreans are going to transition out of this hostage situation is some kind of integration with S Korea. The US should stay out of it directly. Very similar in that sense for Cuba as well. As much as they realize perhaps life under communism isn't great, they have been brainwashed with anti-US and anti-capitalist propaganda for 60 years and are still very skeptical of the US and it's intentions and policies. Life wasn't great for them when the US was involved with Cuba either. Gradual cultural exposure and education is the only way to break through ideologically.

[luvdunhill]

in charge of the world's 4th largest standing army

Reference?

[Colt45]

 

P.S. I would love - Love, if the U.S . pulled out of everywhere, let everyone take care of their own crap, brought back manufacturing, etc......

 

[JohnInCleveland]

11 minutes ago, Colt45 said:

 

P.S. I would love - Love, if the U.S . pulled out of everywhere, let everyone take care of their own crap, brought back manufacturing, etc......

 

The world doesn't work that way.  The manufacturing ain't coming back and if it does the job will be owned by a robot.  Whether we attempt to keep Kim Jong from starting nuclear Armageddon or not won't do anything to fix our domestic ills.  

 

You can't wait and react when you're dealing with a nuclear capable country controlled by a maniac.  They could easily attack Japan or South Korea already and mainland America in a matter of a year or two.

 

This is a guy who had his brother murdered in an airport in broad daylight, his decision making isn't something we should give the benefit of the doubt.  

[...]

14 hours ago, JohnnyRocket said:

They also have a very large amount of chemical weapons. Specifically, advanced nerve agents such as the binary form of VX. South Korean intelligence estimates they have a very advanced bio weapons program as well. They easily have chemical weapons in the thousands of artillery pieces pointed at South Korea and they have brainwashed "special forces" Who would be willing to act as suicide fighters to bring bio weapons into another country either in by infecting himself or just bringing a bag of smallpox or anthrax and having a larger group spread it around. There are some papers that detail South Korea's ideas of how North Korea would react. I also do think they are going to have to be dealt with somehow. I hope we're keeping track of where the leadership is and we probably should've gone ahead and built or start building neutron bomb's again to limit fall out in South Korea which will be impossible but I don't see a way of taking out the regime....unless, we really know where they are in the about that was closed off and hardest country to gain Intel on.


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Strong first post ?

Have you introduced yourself to the forum yet? ?

[Baldy]

12 minutes ago, JohnInCleveland said:

You can't wait and react when you're dealing with a nuclear capable country controlled by a maniac. 

That describe the leader of both North Korea and the US perfectly. 

Everyone keep saying that North Korea is going to attack attack attack any second now they are going to attack.  However, if I recall correctly, since the Korean war which country have gone to war and started conflicts more?  The US or N. Korea?  Which country have prop up dictators only to have to go to war with him later?  Which country have killed more civilians in the name of "liberating" them?  Only one country have ever dropped nukes on a civilian population and I'm sure it wasn't N. Korea.

[jwr0201]

3 hours ago, luvdunhill said:

 

Reference?

 

Google - worldatlas.com or something like that.  Aren't we supposed to believe everything we read on the internet?   

Here's another thought...anyone that has his disgraced people executed by firing squad, using an anti-aircraft weapon, is nothing short of bat-crap crazy!  

[JohnInCleveland]

3 hours ago, Baldy said:

That describe the leader of both North Korea and the US perfectly. 

Everyone keep saying that North Korea is going to attack attack attack any second now they are going to attack.  However, if I recall correctly, since the Korean war which country have gone to war and started conflicts more?  The US or N. Korea?  Which country have prop up dictators only to have to go to war with him later?  Which country have killed more civilians in the name of "liberating" them?  Only one country have ever dropped nukes on a civilian population and I'm sure it wasn't N. Korea.

It's a false equivalence to compare the US dropping a nuclear bomb on Japan during WWII (a war we did not instigate against an opponent who refused to surrender) to what Kim Jong is doing.

 

He has the closest thing to Nazi internment camps, with tens of thousands of prisoners dying of starvation and abuse every year.  You'll hear no support of our current President from me, but if it is your hope that the powerful nations of the world do nothing to help the defenseless, many more millions will die at the hands of the Assads and Uhns of the world.  

 

The US is in a no win situation.  Try and help and everyone second guesses you and do nothing and everyone blames you for not caring.  

[Stanislaw]

I thought this forum was politics free.....?  

[rhcolbert]

I'm just going wirh stoics here. All of this so far beyond my choices and control I just can't worry about it. I used to obsess over stuff like this and would posted 15X times quoting, debating etc etc.

no tears for strangers. Nothing I can do or say will have any bearing on dprk.  Nothing. I'll stick to being responsible for what I can for within my sphere.

[Smallclub]

10 minutes ago, rhcolbert said:

no tears for strangers.

[JohnInCleveland]

2 hours ago, Stanislaw said:

I thought this forum was politics free.....?  

Can't speak for others but most of this hasn't been politics.  I would never argue politics on a forum (I hate politics), but discussing opinions on global security and diplomacy is a different beast. 

 

 

[OZCUBAN]

2 hours ago, Stanislaw said:

I thought this forum was politics free.....?  

As far as I understand this forum is only U.S politics free only because in the past discussions cannot be kept civil 

This is a totally different animal it doesn't matter who is in charge on capital hill there have been many administrations in recent history,but in North Korea there has only been one common denominator 

 

[Ken Gargett]

family chatting about assad, syria, north korea.

my niece asks whether north koreans are allowed to leave the country.

we tell her no.

response - "so what, like there are no airports there?"

ah, chalk one up for the australian education system.

(and she is at Uni, doing well).

[Stanislaw]

6 hours ago, OZCUBAN said:

As far as I understand this forum is only U.S politics free only because in the past discussions cannot be kept civil 

This is a totally different animal it doesn't matter who is in charge on capital hill there have been many administrations in recent history,but in North Korea there has only been one common denominator 

 

I do understand how you both see this.  Any discussion about global security involves the US... most forum threads like this start simply enough.... I will now back out of the room.

[99call]

The lack of concern for people in foreign lands and a general lack of empathy in the modern world, is largely just a by product of how we are being socially engineered by technology and commerce.  I wouldn't include myself in this number, but bet a terrifyingly large number would be more thoughtlessly responsive in saving their laptop from quick sand, than they would someone from the third world. It's sickening but probably quite true.