Canoli Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Do any of you think over aging is possible if kept in optimal conditions? I have heard of sticks aged for 20+ years but do they ever get to a point where they start to degrade? Thanks Canoli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Yes, there is such a thing as cigars reaching a 'peak life'. No one can tell you when that is, one has to go through a box themselves to compare when the flavours are optimal. Depending on the cigar and its related blends, some cigars peak earlier (or later) than others. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canoli Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 makes sense. the reason i ask is I have 2 young sons one 3.5 yrs and the other 5 days old and i wanted to get them a box each of cigars stamped on their birth month/year and hold them until they are old enough to enjoy them with me so 18-20+ years not sure if that is something that was doable or not. -Canoli 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmpotocek Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 That would be one hell of an 18th bday present Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dvickery Posted April 5, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted April 5, 2017 @Canoli dont be worried about cigars fading away at only 20 years . i open up boxes of cigars I bought 20 or 25 years ago quite regularly ... I have yet to find an "expired" box of cigars . i believe it all has to do with storage ... buy em fresh and age ... I would not buy older cigars that somebody else aged ( but that's just me ) . derrek 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 1LegLance Posted April 5, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted April 5, 2017 34 minutes ago, dvickery said: @Canoli dont be worried about cigars fading away at only 20 years . i open up boxes of cigars I bought 20 or 25 years ago quite regularly ... I have yet to find an "expired" box of cigars . i believe it all has to do with storage ... buy em fresh and age ... I would not buy older cigars that somebody else aged ( but that's just me ) . derrek I will disagree and agree at at the same time.... Boxes from before 1998 were a different seed and had much more power, aging was almost a must on some sticks.... Cigars from the early 2000's still had some strength... but stuff these days I honestly don't think will hold up for 20-25 yrs...of course I could be wrong and would be happy to be wrong but I don't see a Bolivar Belicoso Fino from today aging like they did in the 90's. I find that more of my cigars that are over 10yrs old....so from mid 2000's are going flat....stuff that is evern 7yrs old is super mellow....Boli's, HdM, PLPC, all that is at peak at about the 5yr mark these days. Now all that said....it is more fun that you buy and hold on to something that long than it be an amazing stick.....I would say if you have the space get a 50 cab (cool big box anyway) of RASS or Punch or Partagas...something with some body....and smoke 1 a year on their birthday until they are old enough to join you then it is 2 a year until the sticks are gone. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gweilgi Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I wold say it very much depends on the cigar. A couple of weeks ago, I fired up a San Cristobal Muralla, box code FIN OCT 05, and it was definitely over the hill: muddy, thin, flat, not at all what I remembered from other sticks I had smoked from that box over the years. But then, I have had smokes that were 15-20 years old which were absolutely utterly glorious (SLR DC from '98!). If you are stuck on the idea of gifting your sons (lucky sods!) some cigars from their birth month and year, why not wait until it is time, and then source a box or two from a specialised merchant? That way, you will not have the stress and uncertainty of buying and storing them now for the next 18-20 years. Let the dealer do so in his own professional climate-controlled facilities. Have you considered alternative ways of properly commemorating your sons' coming of age? I have a number of nephews and god-children, so know the problem. In a couple of cases, I went with a wrist-watch from the year of their birth (surprisingly inexpensive, if one shops around), in one case I laid down some port, and there are several cases of wine in deep storage awaiting a really special piss-up... Oh, and congratulations to you and the mem to the new arrival! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc2001 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 There are varying opinions on this. I believe some cigars fade as they age, it's simply the science of decay. A leaf eventually turns to dust from decay. However, you can slow the process down, and many have, by chilling and vacuum sealing the cigars to minimize the exchange of air. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CigarsRLife Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 This is very interesting because I have seen people who only smoke what would be considered "vintage" cigars. One example would be awong_this_life on instagram (worth the lookup, his collection is amazing), and he will notate on many that they are still flavorful. I feel that while you run the risk of them not being great cigars in that amount of time, the thought and what those cigars represent is far more important. For example, I am part of the single malt whisky society and recently was able to purchase a bottle for my friend who turned 30, the bottle is from his birth month and year. We opened it and while good, it isn't something that fits either of our tastes. However, the plan is every birthday for him to have a glass of this. In this case it will also oxidize over time before he finishes it. But to him it's the idea that I was able to track down a bottle that's from his birthdate. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightonCorgi Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Personal preference on what is too old tasting. The end result will be like smoking rice paper or the like. When a cigar ends up tasting like that all depends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laficion Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Hi all, There are varying opinions on this. I had a slide box of H.Upmann Mag 46 from 2005 and at the begining It looked and smelled great but when I smoked them a few years after , they went flat on me . They had lost all of their aromas and flavors as compared to, lets say , to a Ramon Allones, Privite Stock , from 1939 which I had the occasion to smoke thanks to Mr. Sutter from Mayfair In London a few years ago. It was a GREAT cigar. So,for me, It all dépends on the type of Cuban Tobacco of today I would guess. Guy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianbeaver Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Since taste is subjective and the past is not necessarily a guarantee of maintained quality, much of the vintage experience must be luck, no? A member here, Daniel Ball, is the one I trust for advice and learning about this subject. Maybe he will show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanaclub Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 As many have already said, taste is subjective. And someone made an interesting note about seed change and strength of Cuban tobacco which could play a role in the aging process. I have a number of vintage Cubans which have lost some aroma, but some haven't. I have had some experience with "aged out" NCs. They were good after 5 yrs and mellowed, but then went flat. Like smoking air. Would love to hear what Ken or Prez has to say about this. As they have way more experience in this department I am sure of it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhcolbert Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Just go for it. Get a powerhouse large cigar and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSXCIGAR Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 The long-term aging properties of the new strains are entirely unknown. All of the info regarding long-term aging results have come from the old Corojo and Criollo strains that were gone by 1999. My answer would be no one knows what the results of long-term aging of cigars made post-1999 will be. I will say there's some evidence that the new strains seem to reach a peak of sorts around the 5-10 year period. Whether there will be a dip and a second peak is still unknown. Many of the cigars made from 2000-2004 were crap to begin with, so quality starting product doesn't have more than about 12 or 13 years on it at this point. Still quite a few years out before long-term results come in. As far as pre-1999 cigars, the only cigar I've heard openly called out for "expiring" was the Davidoff Mille series by MRN. They were a lighter cigar to start with, and most of the examples at the time of his writing were 25-35 years old. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnasse9900 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 The simple solution is to let the kids start smoking at the age of 6 or 7. That way, you'd be less likely to be "on the other side" of a cigar's sweet spot. All jokes aside, to me the "worst-case" scenario still isn't that bad. Let's say you spend the money now, without having to pay the markup for aged boxes, and when you gift them in 18 years or so, the cigars are less than ideal. - It's still a box of Cuban cigars. "Less than ideal" doesn't mean "unsmokable." - You'll still have a really cool story that (hopefully) your kids will appreciate. - If they're not smoking great when you give them as a gift, you could always have them hold onto the boxes and smoke one a year. It could be a really cool annual tradition. - You can always gift these along with current new-production 2035 cigars (weird just typing that...) Fun idea, thanks for sharing. -Brody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugu Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Nothing to do with strength or 'power'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugu Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said: I will say there's some evidence that the new strains seem to reach a peak of sorts around the 5-10 year period. Whether there will be a dip and a second peak is still unknown. Many of the cigars made from 2000-2004 were crap to begin with, so quality starting product doesn't have more than about 12 or 13 years on it at this point. Still quite a few years out before long-term results come in. My '98 MdO2s are turning twenty come next year - for me, one of the best and most flavourful cigars I own. 2000 Upmann Lonsdale - perfection (with a snug draw), 2001 Clasicos - truly clasico, and improving from year to year. 1999 SS1, still going strong (as hell, much to my regret).... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 51 minutes ago, Fugu said: My '98 MdO2s are turning twenty come next year - for me, one of the best and most flavourful cigars I own. 2000 Upmann Lonsdale - perfection (with a snug draw), 2001 Clasicos - truly clasico, and improving from year to year. 1999 SS1, still going strong (as hell, much to my regret).... As tight as they are those Upmann Lonsdales are true classics... -The Pig 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeypots Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 The MRN History of Post Revolution Havana Cigars states pretty clearly that cigars do expire. That is, though, one mans opinion. Many keep cigars in all manner of air tight containment, from tubos to vacuum sealed plastic bags, to control, slow down, or stop the aging process of cigars. My experience has been that I like cigars that have been aged for at least three years and I think lots of the last ten years production hit my sweet spot at about 6 or 7 years. I can say that 2001 Esplendidos are far from expired, but those are the only cigars with 15 + years of age I have smoked. I had a 1985 Sir Winston a few years ago that was sublime, but it was very subtle and certainly a cigar that needed to be smoked carefully so what it offered wouldn't be missed. And a word about why this Cuban cigar obsession is often referred to the dark side on cigar forums when I started to get the cigar bug in the early 2000s. Three cigars a week turns into 156 cigars in a year. If one buys and holds Cuban cigars in order to acquire an aged cigar collection so that one has 6 year old cigars to smoke all of the time, one needs to have 936 cigars in the humidor. Rounding down, that's 37, 25 count boxes and at the low ball price of $150 a box the contents of such a humidor would have cost $5550, US. That's a low, low estimate. I wanted to write this just to show that acquiring a taste for aged Habanos is a not inconsiderable expense for many. Proceed at your peril. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I imagine that a cigar can be kept too long. I'm fairly sure they reach a point where they gain nothing from further aging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohn007 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I have cigars from the '90's that are really good but I will agree with most here in that I believe cigars are like wine. They have a point where they peak and then eventually they become pretty flavorless. While I have no proof of this in newer cigars, they just don't appear to have the same potential as cigars from before 2000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSXCIGAR Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 43 minutes ago, joeypots said: The MRN History of Post Revolution Havana Cigars states pretty clearly that cigars do expire. Outside of the Davidoff Mille series, I don't recall MRN stating any other cigars have "expired". Can you tell me where else he notes this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSXCIGAR Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 37 minutes ago, Bohn007 said: I have cigars from the '90's that are really good but I will agree with most here in that I believe cigars are like wine. They have a point where they peak and then eventually they become pretty flavorless. While I have no proof of this in newer cigars, they just don't appear to have the same potential as cigars from before 2000 Not my opinion, but MRN's so take it only so far, but cigars from the 90s could be entering the "second vacuum period" until 20-25 years old resulting in a perceived loss of primary flavors and insufficient time for the secondary flavors to appear. Technically, a cigar made in 1992 could still be in this phase, albeit the tail end, and cigars from 1993-1999 could be well into that phase. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnInCleveland Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 4 hours ago, bnasse9900 said: The simple solution is to let the kids start smoking at the age of 6 or 7. That way, you'd be less likely to be "on the other side" of a cigar's sweet spot. All jokes aside, to me the "worst-case" scenario still isn't that bad. Let's say you spend the money now, without having to pay the markup for aged boxes, and when you gift them in 18 years or so, the cigars are less than ideal. - It's still a box of Cuban cigars. "Less than ideal" doesn't mean "unsmokable." - You'll still have a really cool story that (hopefully) your kids will appreciate. - If they're not smoking great when you give them as a gift, you could always have them hold onto the boxes and smoke one a year. It could be a really cool annual tradition. - You can always gift these along with current new-production 2035 cigars (weird just typing that...) Fun idea, thanks for sharing. -Brody Your first sentence almost made me spit up my drink. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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