Trevor2118 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 garbandz, on 10 Jan 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:Well,I did post a CCW link on a couple other sites ................... Good Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw15825 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Sure, this article in a U.S. publication doesn't suprise me a bit. They have said it all for years and just want to try to get their views out there in earnest since its all in the news with the move towards normalized relations with Cuba. The NC industry and retailers just trying to soften the blow to their business when the embargo ends. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCgarman Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 First of all the embargo is not going anywhere anytime soon. We now have a Republican controlled congress that is against Obama's new idea of relations with Cuba and if a Republican president is elected in 2 years all this is a moot point. Second of all, the number of cigar smokers in the US is shrinking, just like it is every where else in the world where anti-tobacco legislation and oppressive smoking laws have probably forced some to just give up cigars. And Cubans definitely still are inconsistent compared to NCs. If I buy a box of Padron 1964s, every cigar in that box was rolled by the same roller and the chances of having a dud cigar is basically nill. When I mention Cuban cigars being inconsistent, it is not just contruction-wise. Simply put, some cigars in the box just taste off compared to others. If the embargo ever ends, US smokers will discover this inconsistency and if Cuba were to try to up production to accommodate the US, surely inconsistency and quality issues will worsen. That is of course unless the Fuentes and Padrons have a desire to return to their former motherland to farm tobacco there again. Rant over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallclub Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 For the price of a Padron 1964 you can get habanos that never taste off… You can't compare $30+ NCs to the average box of Shorts or Monte4… 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCgarman Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 FYI a box of Padron 1964 coronas runs 250USD which is a 10 dollar cigar. Like I said the embargo is not going anywhere as long as congress opposes anything Obama does. BTW I have shorts and Monte4 and enjoy both. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyinAZ Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 All here make good points. The NC industry is simply doing there part as many have mentioned. As far as consistency, let's remember we are talking about men and women sitting in a chair hand rolling cigars all day. It's impossible to not have some inconsistency. For the most part, I have found NC and CC to very consistent. Everyone once in a while you get that one that is off, a little tight, etc. Nothing is perfect. Just enjoy the ones that actually are. Good stuff here ya'll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthson Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 And Cubans definitely still are inconsistent compared to NCs. If I buy a box of Padron 1964s, every cigar in that box was rolled by the same roller and the chances of having a dud cigar is basically nill. When I mention Cuban cigars being inconsistent, it is not just contruction-wise. Simply put, some cigars in the box just taste off compared to others. Couldn't disagree more. I have bought hundreds and hundreds of Padrons from pretty much all of their lines. I've definitely had numerous duds, lackluster rolls, etc, and this includes their over-priced Family Reserve and Anniversary lines. It's what got me to stop buying the 1964 and 1926 - voids, off-center rolls, and dull flavors are simply unacceptable for me when I'm spending that kind of $$$ on a smoke. NC seem more prone to off-center rolls, voids, and other issues arising from not using enough tobacco in their cigars. The inconsistency argument is about 10 years out of date. Almost any box of cigars will have some duds! With certain NC brands doing a swift business, it's not uncommon to find poorly rolled smokes. So while Fuente, Padron, Pete Johnson, and lame-boy John Drew have been gouging people like pigs at the trough, the Cubans have worked really hard on their QC. Tatuaje and Illusione have let their QC slip a little (in the name of bringing more brands to market). Fuente is buried in its own "quality" hubris. My biggest pet peeve with cigars is inconsistency, and yet, the majority of my purchases are for CC. I don't typically buy the over-produced vitolas (unless Prez says they're good), and I've found plenty of CC that deliver time and time again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DropTopDee Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 you guys are funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I found the article quite interesting and there is in my opinion a lot of truth to it. For example: Cuban cigar smokers "do" make excuses for their bad cigars...! That is a fact! The Cubans are really handicapped by the fact that they are not held accountable to the smoking public for their bad cigars and there are plenty of bad ones! On the other hand the article was "reporting." Reporting means you collect information from other sources for the purpose of informing OR LEADING. This article was an article where the reporter was lead by industry commercial participants and not "unbiased" cigar smokers. I am not hesitant to bash Cuban cigars when and where they ask for it. However, no pack of industry 'experts' and journalist halfwhits are going to define for me what a great smoking experience is. Hell, if NC cigars were that good, the Cubans, with their enormous amounts of "f" ups would be outta' business by now. This article is really quite the insult for many smokers around the world. It implies that a handful of US based (and I am not US bashing here, just reporting) businessmen are telling you that you don't know your own tastes! I mean NC cigars are sold abroad are they not? If they were better, the Cuban cigar, with all its flaws would go the way of the dodo! There is simply no logical inquiry by the author and that takes what truth there is in the article and taints it... IMHO. Critics are a joke! Gurus are a joke... I think collectors are a joke!!! Each cigar smoker will decide for himself what is and what is not a better cigar. None of us need to be told frankly and therefore any 'article' written for the layperson about cigars is just that, for the layperson! Open up the market and lets see what happens! The market will (hopefully) lead us to a better cigar all around. Get the world governments out of the tobacco trade I say... This mean trade embargoes, tariffs, taxes and the like! Government involvement never lead to a better product and if we were to take the damn Cuban government out of the Cuban cigar business, we would see better cigars as well!!! The US has some pretty long standing problems with monopolies. The minute that CCs are found to be legal in the US, all these NC makers will be clamoring in court that the Cubans have an unfair monopoly on their tobacco as it is all owned and farmed by the Cuban government. You will see just how the NC makers feel about their own tobacco the second the lawsuits for unfair business practices are filed...! It is my guess that the Cuban government will be forced to sell tobacco products to be blended or used by the NC makers to sell finished cigars in the US. I will bet you that "antitrust" papers are already drawn and waiting to be filed against Tabacuba and H SA in the event of the dropping of the embargo... The Cuban cigar is far from free trade in the US! I say, don't hold your breath. -Piggy 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cottierm Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Well said Mr. Pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLB03TT Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Great analysis Piggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenMonkey Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Well said Mr. Pig. That's just how Piggy rolls. Thanks, Piggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The monopolies issue raises an interesting question. About 25 years ago, Cubatabaco chose one distributer in every region the world, before that there were 6 in the UK alone. Distributers still have a monopoly in just about every market worldwide. If and when Cuban cigars become legal in the US and Habanos insist on a single distributer (and that might well be the order of things, I.e. the embargo might fall before Cuba releases state control) how would that monopoly hold up in US courts of law? Does anyone know? Is there a precedent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenMonkey Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The monopolies issue raises an interesting question. About 25 years ago, Cubatabaco chose one distributer in every region the world, before that there were 6 in the UK alone. Distributers still have a monopoly in just about every market worldwide. If and when Cuban cigars become legal in the US and Habanos insist on a single distributer (and that might well be the order of things, I.e. the embargo might fall before Cuba releases state control) how would that monopoly hold up in US courts of law? Does anyone know? Is there a precedent? There are a lot of companies that use exclusive distributors for their product. I can't imagine this would be a problem legally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul3 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The perpetual debate on which is better, the Cuban or Non-Cuban cigar. When I was new to the hobby and then later on when I discovered that you didn't need a secret handshake to obtain the forbidden CC here in the U.S. I thought a bit more about it. Which is really better, the Cuban or the Non-Cuban cigar? It took me far to long to reach my own, subjective, conclusion that it was a question designed only to waste my time and realizing the answer would only bring further debate....the self licking ice cream cone. Let me end the debate for all with my vast experience and expert opinion . The cigar I have in my hand is the best ever. It's far better than the others resting in my humidor, they are just cigars sitting in a box....they will become the best when they suffer the match. My current cigar is also better than those I've already smoked...those are gone, ashes, and reside only in the memory of a good time or in some unfortunate cases a crummy cigar. Honestly, I think it's a bit of a silly debate, but I don't pretend that it will ever be worn out. I don't believe, however, that it should ever turn into a bashing session on any particular brand, manufacturer or individual. Now back the to the better cigar......... Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balboa Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 A few years ago, in one of JR Cigars catalogues, I remember Lew Rothman confirming he had negociated to purchase the exclusive rights to distribute most major brands of Cuban cigars when they become legal. For a fee, you were able to reserve a box. People ridiculed him but I guess he might have the last laugh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbear Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Seeing as Altidis owns a fair chunk of HSA wouldn't they use the distribution network they already have in place in the US for their NC lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 What do you think funded Habanos SA? Altadis (Imperial Tobacco Group) already owns the distribution rights for the USA. That won't stop the law suits, class action or otherwise against the monopoly that is Tabacuba, Cuban tobacco, copyright infringement with independently owned expatriated brand names, etcetera, the very first day that Cuban tobacco products become a legal commodity in the USA. This will likely be a boon for vendors like our host here as the commodity itself becomes decriminalized. As far as US local sales... See you all in court! -Piggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigFish Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 That's just how Piggy rolls. Thanks, Piggy. Cheers my friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgop Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 First of all the embargo is not going anywhere anytime soon. We now have a Republican controlled congress that is against Obama's new idea of relations with Cuba and if a Republican president is elected in 2 years all this is a moot point. #1-I think we've already seen what the POTUS thinks of using congress #2-There won't be a Rep POTUS come Jan 2017 either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick2021 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 FYI a box of Padron 1964 coronas runs 250USD which is a 10 dollar cigar. Like I said the embargo is not going anywhere as long as congress opposes anything Obama does. BTW I have shorts and Monte4 and enjoy both. Agree with this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLB03TT Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 #1-I think we've already seen what the POTUS thinks of using congress #2-There won't be a Rep POTUS come Jan 2017 either. What is a POTUS?? If you mean "President Of The United States" -USA Pres.- might be a little more accessible to most. Please share your prognosticating insights regarding the outcome of TNUSPE. (TheNextUSPresidentialElection) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCgarman Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 #1-I think we've already seen what the POTUS thinks of using congress #2-There won't be a Rep POTUS come Jan 2017 either. Helms Burton act prevents the Pres from ending embargo without congress. If you think Cuban descent congressmen like Marco Rubio are gonna want to vote to end embargo dream on.As far as not being a Republican in the white house next term the voters will decide not you alone. My 2c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangolf18 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Well honestly, as soon as cuban cigars become legal in the U.S., I don't think it'll take long for American cigar smokers to realize what they've been missing. NC cigar sales will plummet to some degree whether or not companies like General Cigar try to block the sale of CCs in the U.S. It is symbolic in my opinion of how the heads there are not real cigar people and never have been...they obviously only care about profits. They only care about the American cigar smoker as long as they are smoking their cigars. But who can really blame them...their jobs will likely depend on preventing sales from declining. Bottom line, the will of a greedy few people (heads of NC cigar companies) should not prevent all Americans from having easy access to cuban cigars when they become legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 NC Cigar companies will have to adapt or die I suppose, like Kodak did when digital camera technology became mainstream...oh hold on, they didn't did they and look where they are now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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