How to fix a plug?

[thecapo]

It's very disappointing when you pull out a nice cigar only to find a bad draw/plug!

I have rolled it around to loosen it up with no luck. I also used a poker and cut more off, still very tight. Anyone with a better suggestion?

[fabes]

Toss it and grab another stick.

An hour with a good draw always beats an hour fighting against a plug.

[PapaDisco]

Bumped into that on a 2010 Punch Punch. First time I couldn't solve it with a good poke by a wood match. Usually something like that poked an inch or two down the middle will make the cigar serviceable, but this time the stick had a plug like Tyvek house wrap. Suffered with it for 10 minutes and then tossed it and went onto another.

You guys know I luv the Punch Punch but the 2010's have been a difficult bunch to like. Very uneven except in the flavor department where they've been consistently below Punch Punch standards.

[Guest Robo]

Check out this thread:

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=117709

[Jamesuk]

Cocktail stick

Watches and Cigars.

[OZCUBAN]

Toss it, I have no time anymore for bad smokes ,problem is you might end up with a pretty good pitching arm LOL

[Laxman]

I fix a plug by tossing it over my left shoulder and lighting a new cigar.

[garbandz]

I usually can ream a stick and enjoy it,sometimes it does not work.

When this happens I toss it on my rolling table,open it up,and re roll it with a new wrapper.this always works....and I have had some interesting smokes,imagine a cuban with a conn.broadleaf maduro wrapper..............

[mk05]

Sometimes you get lucky and it's an extra twist in the entubado that disapears once you bypass the plug.

But most of the time, it's a bad roll, overbunched, bound too tightly. These, even if you drill them for draw, won't taste 100% correctly, since it is mostly an inherent flaw within the roll. Vegetal, acrid, sour, you know what I mean if you've tasted it.

[Smallclub]

These, even if you drill them for draw, won't taste 100% correctly, since it is mostly an inherent flaw within the roll. Vegetal, acrid, sour, you know what I mean if you've tasted it.

Exactly, and this taste stays forever. An overbunched cigar doesn't age properly.

[stunod]

Toss it and grab another stick.

An hour with a good draw always beats an hour fighting against a plug.

No doubt, that's exactly what I do. I always bring a back up cigar with me. If I get a plugged one, I will give it some time, but I won't smoke it down , life's too short and usually so is the time I have to smoke.

I would rather have a wind tunnel than a plug.

[PigFish]

I think the term plug and stiff draw should not be interchangeable. While each can pick and choose his own language, they are not the same.

A truly plugged cigar is likely trash. I too have poked at them and pleaded with them, kneaded them, but typically if you want to try to smoke them it requires chopping out the plug, the knot, or the hard spot and smoking the rest. Yes, I have done it… I don't give up easily but I cannot say that it is typically worth the effort or the taste.

Now a stiff draw is a separate issue. Many newer to CC's will dispose of a stiff drawing cigars and not work at it. I believe this is a mistake. I have smoked though many, many stiff drawing cigars and been rewarded with complex and wonderful flavors and satisfying smoking experiences. Smoking is a labor of love and sometimes the labor required is more than others. If the labor is distracting you, you can either toss a lot of cigars or modify your mindset.

Some of the tasting comments above, interestingly overlap with taste notes of cigars that have too much water! Is it from a single cause, both or a completely separate cause that these cigars can taste this way? You will draw your own conclusion, however it is interesting to note the similarities and I believe that there is a correlation.

I store cigars far dryer than most. By keeping environmental fluctuations to low amplitudes for short periods, I believe that I can consistently keep my cigars dryer and know that they are staying where I want them. I don't leave environmental controls to the macro environment, or to chance. While I smoke all kinds of cigars from '99-'01, mostly slender rings, I have far less the problems than others report. Is it me, or is it dryer storage? A little of both I proffer.

The first step is environmental control. The next is a welding tip cleaner, a cutter and then the trash can! No matter how you approach it, a cigar is sometimes like courting a woman. You get out of it what you are willing to invest in it! And for the sake of balancing the argument, yes, sometimes you get skunked!!!

Cheers! -Piggy

[mk05]

I would argue that it is much harder to screw up a <6" cigar with thin rg <36" since there's less leaves to bunch...and you dont even need the Capote in some cases. I would also argue that low humidity aging is detrimental in general and unhelpful other than for assuaging tight cigars, but that is another issue.

[PigFish]

I would argue that it is much harder to screw up a <6" cigar with thin rg <36" since there's less leaves to bunch...and you dont even need the Capote in some cases. I would also argue that low humidity aging is detrimental in general and unhelpful other than for assuaging tight cigars, but that is another issue.

Nothing personal mate, but I am gonna' challenge you on your post!

Have to argue with both based on assumption and no proof! Plugs are based on too much tobacco in too small a space or poorly constructed cigars with twisted, not bunched tobacco. Plugged cigars are the result of error. With less space to work with, the margin of error of the addition of one 'measure' of tobacco, whatever that measure may be, becomes more critical. It is therefore easier to overpack a smaller cigar than a larger one.

For example, lets add 'one measure' of red food coloring to a bucket of water. The water becomes red. Add the same 'measure' to a swimming pool and no visible signs of the dye might be present. The slightest error can overpack a small cigar, where a gross error may not over pack a larger cigar.

Now about aging, all speculation here. Believe what you wish, argue it if you want, prove it… and I may change my mind about it!!! I too have no proof of belief, but I do know a little science!

Water has a different volatility than other compounds. If removing water kills the cigars flavor, then the addition of water, or the addition of water and components borne in water could improve it. If water carries the flavor components, then the natural diffusion of these ingredients are going to happen all the time as hygroscopic materials are in a constant state of flux.

Even sealing won't help! Do the physics!!! Until such time as the space surrounding the cigar is in equilibrium with these (presumed) volatile components transferred with water, the cigar will continue to surrender these agents!

…and furthermore! We treat cigars with water via a process called equilibrium relative humidity. As such, rH represents water only. Please perform your own study of the physical characteristics of water vapor for the facts. Water, bonded with 'flavor agents' therefore becomes a different gas altogether which are no longer bound by the rules that define water vapor and therefore relative humidity. This would imply then, that regardless of the relative humidity, the diffusion of the modified water vapor (bonded with the flavor agent) will leave the cigar at the same rate as it is no longer considered water vapor! High rH therefore does not seal in the modified water vapor/flavor component gas. It is subject to its own concentration equilibrium.

The rest is a matter of taste.

For those following along, take a cigar, cut it and let it really dehydrate. Does it taste better or worse? Is all the flavor gone? Don't take my word for it, try it yourself.

Cheers! -the Pig

[PaulP]

Do a. Search. There are probably 20 threads about this topic.

[Dimmers]

..... I would also argue that low humidity aging is detrimental in general and unhelpful other than for assuaging tight cigars, but that is another issue.

Piggy & mk05 - what % lvl do you each consider as being "low humidity aging" ?

[PigFish]

Piggy & mk05 - what % lvl do you each consider as being "low humidity aging" ?

… that is the 64 dollar question! Damn good one too.

I answered generally. I tried a generalization based on a comparison of two rH settings, just call one X and the other (X-Y) where X > (X-Y). I attempted to make an argument about a possible supposition where "flavor agents" were transported by water vapor away from the cigar. There are potently many reasons why one could speculate that dryer cigars won't age as well as wetter ones I suppose and I just took a stab at why one might make that sort of supposition. The supposition was not mine, I am only guessing at it! Otherwise, I did not make a distinction regarding any specific rH spread or relation beyond the generality. If you want my opinion; it does not make a damn bit of difference!

Since aging is not an exact defined cigar term, but a ubiquitous, general term defined personally, one that is certainly not quantitative, I simply challenged one possible theory based on water vapor as a carrier of volatile cigar taste. In other words, I guessed at what another poster was thinking just to carry the conversation further.

I get called a buzzkill when I criticize the concept of storage for a taste improvement alone but I will say again that I don't practice it by intention. It is a consequence of my smoking and acquisition "habits." I won't mock it, as it is a 'mainstream' concept that many practice and swear by. I will merely stand by the fact that it cannot be quantified and measured and therefore is a speculative concept where every smoker defines it and its benefits for himself. I categorize it as "wishful thinking."

I can only say that if we cannot define it, then how can we attribute a storage condition detrimental to it, beyond the obvious of course? If storage conditions ruin your cigars, well, I guess that is bad for aging!!! Perhaps then someone can tell me if my cigars, just for example, have been ruined by being stored at 60rH? I say then, at what point are they not ruined and why, which may just be your question…?

Yeah, I am pretty quick to criticize a lot of cigar theories. But, I am still willing to be taught if someone knows something that I don't and can make a good case for it.

Cheers, Piggy

[Pedro2486]

… that is the 64 dollar question! Damn good one too.

I answered generally. I tried a generalization based on a comparison of two rH settings, just call one X and the other (X-Y) where X > (X-Y). I attempted to make an argument about a possible supposition where "flavor agents" were transported by water vapor away from the cigar. There are potently many reasons why one could speculate that dryer cigars won't age as well as wetter ones I suppose and I just took a stab at why one might make that sort of supposition. The supposition was not mine, I am only guessing at it! Otherwise, I did not make a distinction regarding any specific rH spread or relation beyond the generality. If you want my opinion; it does not make a damn bit of difference!

Since aging is not an exact defined cigar term, but a ubiquitous, general term defined personally, one that is certainly not quantitative, I simply challenged one possible theory based on water vapor as a carrier of volatile cigar taste. In other words, I guessed at what another poster was thinking just to carry the conversation further.

I get called a buzzkill when I criticize the concept of storage for a taste improvement alone but I will say again that I don't practice it by intention. It is a consequence of my smoking and acquisition "habits." I won't mock it, as it is a 'mainstream' concept that many practice and swear by. I will merely stand by the fact that it cannot be quantified and measured and therefore is a speculative concept where every smoker defines it and its benefits for himself. I categorize it as "wishful thinking."

I can only say that if we cannot define it, then how can we attribute a storage condition detrimental to it, beyond the obvious of course? If storage conditions ruin your cigars, well, I guess that is bad for aging!!! Perhaps then someone can tell me if my cigars, just for example, have been ruined by being stored at 60rH? I say then, at what point are they not ruined and why, which may just be your question…?

Yeah, I am pretty quick to criticize a lot of cigar theories. But, I am still willing to be taught if someone knows something that I don't and can make a good case for it.

Cheers, Piggy

Yeah you buzzkill you

I enjoy your posts mate. There's nothing wrong with applying scientific method to something you enjoy. For those like minded people it can have an enjoyment of its own. It's also massively nerdish which is cool with me, get me going on GNSS and automated mining machines and tech and watch the same thing happen.

For what it's worth 65% is what keeps it good for me. I would consider below 60 low temp depending

[mk05]

Plugs are based on too much tobacco in too small a space or poorly constructed cigars with twisted, not bunched tobacco. Plugged cigars are the result of error. With less space to work with, the margin of error of the addition of one 'measure' of tobacco, whatever that measure may be, becomes more critical. It is therefore easier to overpack a smaller cigar than a larger one.

It appears that you discount the notion of a tight draw as a plugged cigar. Now if we are going to argue on semantics or go by pure diction, then yes, a plugged cigar...is specifically due to a plug. Most smokers however, as stated previously, define a plugged cigar as one that doesn't or hardly draw. This translates to the cause being either of the two cases, not just the former.

As for the 2cc I gave regarding thinner rg, it is harder to mess up when you are rolling rudimentary cigars that they train you at grade 4 and 5. Rollers are using smaller leaves, and less of it in the hand while bunching - overall, less technique involved. They also don't worry about the trials of maintaining entubar construction when rolling technically difficult large sizes like J#2. This circles back to the original statement, and I would say that most smokers experience tight draws in larger formats than smaller due to the technical difficulty of maintaining entubar, longer leaves, more leaves, and misjudging the bunching. However, for complete plugs, that could happen in any cigar, and as you say above, the margin of error on a small rg increases with less leaves being involved as additional passthroughs of draw.

[fingerburner]

It sucks but it's only collateral damage. I've tried to salvage dogs but have since learnt to toss without regret.

[PigFish]

It appears that you discount the notion of a tight draw as a plugged cigar. Now if we are going to argue on semantics or go by pure diction, then yes, a plugged cigar...is specifically due to a plug. Most smokers however, as stated previously, define a plugged cigar as one that doesn't or hardly draw. This translates to the cause being either of the two cases, not just the former.

As for the 2cc I gave regarding thinner rg, it is harder to mess up when you are rolling rudimentary cigars that they train you at grade 4 and 5. Rollers are using smaller leaves, and less of it in the hand while bunching - overall, less technique involved. They also don't worry about the trials of maintaining entubar construction when rolling technically difficult large sizes like J#2. This circles back to the original statement, and I would say that most smokers experience tight draws in larger formats than smaller due to the technical difficulty of maintaining entubar, longer leaves, more leaves, and misjudging the bunching. However, for complete plugs, that could happen in any cigar, and as you say above, the margin of error on a small rg increases with less leaves being involved as additional passthroughs of draw.

Yes, you are right about my approach. I consider a tight draw, a tight draw and a plugged cigar a plugged cigar. They are two different things and I do distinguish the difference.

I think we will have to agree to disagree about the plugged issue. No skin off my nose. I thank you for sticking with it and taking a cigar specific perspective. I generally think on the lines of simple mechanical ideology. I see a cross section of a cigar and the tobacco that fills it. I see a density that I consider optimum and when that density is applied across different ring gauges, it adds to less pathways and open space in a smaller cigar simply due to the fact that the thickness of tobacco can be considered a constant (for my estimation).

I am interested in the opinions of other based on your analysis. I thought it was Rob that told me that thinner ring cigars are actually more difficult to roll and require better rollers to perform the job and that rationalized their higher cost, cost/gram of tobacco. It was the only rationale that made sense to me when I compared the typical robusto and its corresponding weight in tobacco verses a cigar such as the Monte Esp. I always attributed the cost to the box… and a mistaken approach to marketing, but I am not an expert at cigar production methods.

Thanks for the explanation… Food for thought!

I am also curios about your thoughts on rH and aging. While I am sure you have read enough of my posts to know what I think of aging theories, I am genuinely interested in what facts or beliefs that caused you to make that statement. I don't ask for the sake of debate or as bait to pontificate; I am interested.

Cheers! -R

[CaptainQuintero]

I would have generally though thinner ring gauge cigars would, at least for me, be more difficult.

Lanceros or RG skederelas would to me be a lit more harder to construct compared to a sublime/duke. Smaller does usually increase difficulty, eg a grandfather clock I would think would be easier up construct compared to a wristwatch, if the quality of materials was the same.

At least for me! I remember when young making airfix models, starting off on larger scales ones and going progressively smaller as I got better at it

Never smoked a model spitfire though

[p4gtr]

If I can feel it close to either end, I would sometimes use a toothpick to ream the hole. A bad draw ruins a lot of the enjoyment for me, so it most likely would become a dud.

[CigarB]

60 - 90 minutes in the refrigerator will do wonders!

[CUBANO]

60 - 90 minutes in the refrigerator will do wonders!

I tried that with some RG Lonsdales from 2001 without results. Had to throw away most of the box.