Pay a premium for an aged box?

[Smallclub]

How do you tell if it's crap?

I am known as The Cigar Box Whisperer…

[PapaDisco]

20 Euros extra per box, how much is the box? We talking 25 or 50 sticks? I don't know about Partagas shorts, but I have a couple of favorites where 4 or 5 years makes a world of difference versus just-out-of-the-factory, and I'd pay 10-20% extra for a 2010 box versus a 2013 box if I'd had the 2010's before.

[mgravito]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. As I've only been buying CC within the last 2 years, my stock is still very young. I'd pay a premium for something I could enjoy now with a little bit of age. Just like anything, it's worth what you're willing to pay.

I'd pay 10-20% extra for a 2010 box versus a 2013 box if I'd had the 2010's before.

[ramon_cojones]

2013 are smoking so well there's no marginal satisfaction from 2010s, i personally would prefer the new box for cheaper

[PapaDisco]

2013 are smoking so well there's no marginal satisfaction from 2010s, i personally would prefer the new box for cheaper

I agree that the 2012's and 2013's are damn fine, but they are still highly variable. Even reputable 'young smokes' like Partagas D4's and Hoyo Epi 2's I've found good but inconsistent this year. So while some of these seem to be rolled to be smoked in year one, I'd still pay up for something with 5 years on it, and for something that was well stored for 10 years I could understand a much bigger premium.

[ramon_cojones]

Right, but we are talking about shorts and 3 years of age, a completely different argument.

[PapaDisco]

Right, but we are talking about shorts and 3 years of age, a completely different argument.

I get your point, I don't know that I'd call it "completely" different, but you're right that 3 years is not that big of a deal, but this is more of a 4 year difference. In any event, for me if I know a particular year was good then I'm a sucker for another box from that year. Of course the box code matters too, but that is almost too difficult to sort through, so I focus on the year the cigars were produced which is, admittedly incomplete and imperfect.

[PigFish]

Unless they are gifts, I don't have any cigars younger than 5… moving to 6 years now. With that said, I am happy to say that aging cigars for me is coincidental to hoarding them, and not being able to smoke all that I have in one sitting!

The whole pursuit of aged cigars is a load of crap! MHO! Now cigars that happen to be old that you have never tried are a different issue… Cigars that are no longer made, I fully understand. But the whole guru game of whose cigar is older is a lot like whose car is newer and all the other useless highbrow games that people play to stratify themselves above their peers. It seems that someone is always turning smoking the best cigars, into something that is more difficult and expensive… Gee, I wonder why that is? I see validity in the aged cigar position when examined from a persecutive of smoking some great cigars that are no longer made. I can see it when crop failures and catastrophes have destroyed certain vintages. But simple comparisons, based on age alone are utter hogwash!

There is no proof of a general rule that a 3, 5, 10, or 20 year old cigar is better than the one in your own humidor now!

Buy what you like! If that equates to 2010 vintage Party Shorts so be it. I will bet you that they are no better than 2013 Party Shorts and no worse than '07 Party Shorts but if you want to play the aged cigar game, have at it.

I am not saying that age does not affect the cigar. What I am saying, is that in my 30 years of smoking cigars, I have not yet been able to tell which of two identical cigars will taste better without smoking both of them. When someone figures that out, I wish they would let me in on the secret. For now, I will have to go on denying the guru theories, that they (the gurus) have used to convince their followers that they smoke the best cigars simply because they say so. They can continue to pontificate over what cigar will age better in the next decade and I will continue to say, "horse pucky!"

Frankly, the Partagas Tres Petit Coronas was superior to the Party Short! They may be worth the premium!!!

Buying a cigar is always a gamble. Cigars are imperfect creations made by imperfect people. The cheaper you buy them, the less you risk on each cigar… Paying a premium for the untested is just an unnecessary gamble. There are factors that can sway a decision and most of that is based on previous experience. What is the difference if you start your experience with 2013 verses 2010? We all started somewhere, and if you live to tell about it 20 years from now you will be the guy telling the stories how great cigars were 20 years ago…

You can buy the car that won Le Mans in 1962 if you have the coin. It does not make you the guy who won it! Experience is something you acquire first hand. If you are going to buy past experiences, buy the ones no longer made. You then have gotten something for you money. I think you will be buying a reason to deride Tabacuba… but that is just my experience talking!

Cheers! Merry Christmas… -the Pig

[Rushman]

Cheers piggy. Well said. Merry Christmas.

Some of you know Omaida from LCDH here in cayman. She was a guest at our Christmas Eve dinner last night. She gifted me an unbanded cigar. She wasn't exactly sure what it was. I will tell you what it was.......a very enjoyable smoking experience. Nuf said.

We smoke cigars to enrich our lives. I've enjoyed drop dead awesome cigars right off the truck and with 10+ years of age. My cigar life is about grabbing my next cigar. If it's good I will smoke it. If not I will toss it and go back for another. Fortunately the latter is a rare exception. My life is not improved or worsened by the age of my cigars.

---

I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=19.390069,-81.404631

[mash]

Unless they are gifts, I don't have any cigars younger than 5… moving to 6 years now. With that said, I am happy to say that aging cigars for me is coincidental to hoarding them, and not being able to smoke all that I have in one sitting!

The whole pursuit of aged cigars is a load of crap! MHO! Now cigars that happen to be old that you have never tried are a different issue… Cigars that are no longer made, I fully understand. But the whole guru game of whose cigar is older is a lot like whose car is newer and all the other useless highbrow games that people play to stratify themselves above their peers. It seems that someone is always turning smoking the best cigars, into something that is more difficult and expensive… Gee, I wonder why that is? I see validity in the aged cigar position when examined from a persecutive of smoking some great cigars that are no longer made. I can see it when crop failures and catastrophes have destroyed certain vintages. But simple comparisons, based on age alone are utter hogwash!

There is no proof of a general rule that a 3, 5, 10, or 20 year old cigar is better than the one in your own humidor now!

Buy what you like! If that equates to 2010 vintage Party Shorts so be it. I will bet you that they are no better than 2013 Party Shorts and no worse than '07 Party Shorts but if you want to play the aged cigar game, have at it.

I am not saying that age does not affect the cigar. What I am saying, is that in my 30 years of smoking cigars, I have not yet been able to tell which of two identical cigars will taste better without smoking both of them. When someone figures that out, I wish they would let me in on the secret. For now, I will have to go on denying the guru theories, that they (the gurus) have used to convince their followers that they smoke the best cigars simply because they say so. They can continue to pontificate over what cigar will age better in the next decade and I will continue to say, "horse pucky!"

Frankly, the Partagas Tres Petit Coronas was superior to the Party Short! They may be worth the premium!!!

Buying a cigar is always a gamble. Cigars are imperfect creations made by imperfect people. The cheaper you buy them, the less you risk on each cigar… Paying a premium for the untested is just an unnecessary gamble. There are factors that can sway a decision and most of that is based on previous experience. What is the difference if you start your experience with 2013 verses 2010? We all started somewhere, and if you live to tell about it 20 years from now you will be the guy telling the stories how great cigars were 20 years ago…

You can buy the car that won Le Mans in 1962 if you have the coin. It does not make you the guy who won it! Experience is something you acquire first hand. If you are going to buy past experiences, buy the ones no longer made. You then have gotten something for you money. I think you will be buying a reason to deride Tabacuba… but that is just my experience talking!

Cheers! Merry Christmas… -the Pig

My experience is different than yours. I have smoked cigars fresh from several hundred boxes. I will then typically continue to sample another cigar from that box after it has sat for another 6-12 months, and keep on doing that. When they seem to be peaking, I will smoke them more often. I almost always enjoy cigars more after they've aged for 3-5 years. They have less bite, and I can smoke them down further.

There are some people that enjoy fresh cigars. For them, buying boxes with a bit of age doesn't make sense. I'm not one of those people.

If I am confident in how the cigars have been stored, I will search for boxes that are not fresh. I have not regretted this strategy, ever. Like you, the majority of my cigars age because I buy them at a rate that far exceeds what I smoke. I agree that this works well, because I know the storage conditions, and I can see how they are progressing.

You're right that buying cigars is a gamble. You might get a subpar 3-5 year old box, just like you might get a subpar fresh box. I personally wouldn't pay a premium for a box unless it's at least 6-7 years old.

To suggest people just do this to be pretentious is simply wrong.

[Dozerhead]

I probably echo most of the sentiments that Piggy laid out. Don't get me wrong, if you or anyone else thinks it's worth the risk and the extra price then go for it. Who am I to tell someone how to spend their money? Hopefully you trust your source which I think is key for buying older boxes. For me, unless there are special circumstances (such as a box that has been discontinued), it's just not worth it. What if I end up buying and aged box of crap? I have a box of PSD4's from 2008 that have been nothing but below average. Nearly six years of age has not helped these cigars whatsover. I also have a box of PSD4's from 2012 that just happen to blow the 08 box out of the water. So which is worth the premium? Sometimes older is not always better.

[Skyfall]

Cheers Ray (Pig) & Rush, Merry Christmas brothers, and I share the same opinion as you both!

[Dbone]

The whole pursuit of aged cigars is a load of crap!

You can buy the car that won Le Mans in 1962 if you have the coin. It does not make you the guy who won it! Experience is something you acquire first hand. If you are going to buy past experiences, buy the ones no longer made. You then have gotten something for you money. I think you will be buying a reason to deride Tabacuba… but that is just my experience talking!

Cheers! Merry Christmas… -the Pig

Couldn't have said it better myself. Speaking in generalities, buying aged cigars is artificially buying results which can not be enjoyed unless you've taken the entire journey... in my opinion.

[mk05]

I just wish I bought those Dunhill Estupendo and Tubos when I was in kindergarten. Can't win 'em all.

[Dbone]

I just wish I bought those Dunhill Estupendo and Tubos when I was in kindergarten. Can't win 'em all.

No way, parents would not allow it and allowance was used on big league chew, ring pops, and sport cards.

[Dozerhead]

No way, parents would not allow it and allowance was used on big league chew, ring pops, and sport cards.

My parents did, but my Mom threw out all my baseball cards along with my Cuban Davidoffs and Dunhills after I left the house.

[PapaDisco]

You guys are over-reacting to perceived cigar snobbery. I'm sure it happens sometimes but I haven't seen it yet.

My limited experience is that 4 and 5 year older boxes tend to be more reliable and consistent, but I have no empirical data for that and could be wrong. And there are several cigars that I've had young that have been wonderful. But I still enjoy rummaging through the Duty Free shelf looking for corona gordas from 2008-2009 (admittedly not that old) and sharing them with friends! It's all in good fun!

[Smallclub]

You guys are over-reacting to perceived cigar snobbery.

Some reactions are surprising specially when they're clearly not supported by first hand experience…

[canadianbeaver]

The other point I find about this issue, not speaking specifically about anyone here at all, is what "aged" means. This has been discussed so many times here. When I see aged cigars and they are from 2009, I certainly have a different opinion.

Pushing it? 2003 and before...

[tippexx]

Some like their steak rare, others prefer it well done. Cigars are no different, we each like what we like and if we like it enough will turn the extra coin to get what we want.

What is 'aged'? For a newspaper it's yesterday, for an antiquity it's forever and for a cigar it's a period of adolecence during which nicotine dissipates and which can be 3 years, 5 years even 10 years. Should we be paying a 'premium' for this? If you want to, I see no reason why not, and financialy it's no worse than tying up money on age-it-yourself exercises. But if you look to Germany for example you don't have to pay a premium. A box priced at €200 in 1998 will be sold in the shop for €200 today, the only increases a retailer is allowed to apply are those in Federal Tax and VAT .... seems an admirable system to me!

[sw15825]

No, Less than 10 years age is not "aged" in my opinion. Discontinued may add some premium too but not unreasonable amounts. I have to enjoy but not feel guilty or stupid in my purchase. Just my two cents.

[oliverdst]

Your question has 2 different variables: money (premium) and time (aged).

The equation does not have an unique answer because, like some said above, what is aged for me doesn't necessary is for you. A premium price can be 10%, 20%, 50%, 100%...? Well, 10% means a lot to just a 1 year old cigar but is 100% a lot to a 50 years old cigar?

More important than that: your son was born in sep/12, wouldn't you buy 10% more to abox with that code? And if you don't care about the age would you pay 1% more to a 50 years old cigar?

Yes, I know, all this bs doesn't answer your question... Maybe because ther is NO answer.

[Webbo]

Well thanks for all the interesting responses guys. A quick update, I bought the box, it cost me 20 euro more and I thought what the hell, where I am it's not always so easy to get the cigars you want, particularly with the vagaries of the Slovak customs and postal services. The result, well that was 20 euros I could have spent on booze to go with a 2013 box. Absolutely no discernible difference at all to me, the 3 year old shorts seemed the same as recent singles I have bought. We live and learn. Happy New Year.

[PapaDisco]

Yeah, age is not guarantee of the stick being better, but if I'm shown a shelf of robustos from 2009 and 2013, I'll definitely look at the '09's first.

Just a recent update on my, admittedly unscientific and anecdotal "evidence" for preferring a few extra years on cigars: I've posted before about a killer box of Punch Punch '09 tubos that I picked up (for an exorbitant price) in HKG Duty Free. Just this week I passed through the same airport and made a beeline to the same Duty Free shop. Luckily they still had a supply of '09 Punch Punch tubos on the shelf, like 15-20 boxes of three different box codes, all from '09. I rummaged through all of the boxes and none of them were of the quality of my previous box. All were relatively bland in scent and dried out at the foot or cracked at the head or sub-par in construction. So there you go; more an argument for the randomness of cigar quality than an argument for the consistent superiority of slightly older boxes.

[ricovegas]

I smoked a Cohiba Robusto that had a hefty price tag and was aged from 2008 and wasn't worth it