El Presidente Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/c-l-e-to-enter-new-price-point-with-60-asylum-cigar C.L.E. To Enter New Price Point With $60 Asylum Cigar May 4, 2023 | By Gregory Mottola I was having a zoom session yesterday with Phil from Updown Cigar in Chicago and the topic of the number of new high priced NC releases came up. It is an interesting play. 2
Stoyan Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 Most of the brands are coming out with higher priced(luxury) releases. Even not so popular brands and even brand new companies. 1
westg Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 I will take Quintero favoritos all day long over that. Non Cuban heathen trash 4
BrightonCorgi Posted May 5, 2023 Posted May 5, 2023 I wonder how cigar merchants will accept these? Will they want to promote them to their customer base? I think the real mom & pop tobacconists may avoid them super high priced cigars. They'll languish on the shelf unless they really live up to the price, which I doubt.
SCgarman Posted May 5, 2023 Posted May 5, 2023 36 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said: I wonder how cigar merchants will accept these? Will they want to promote them to their customer base? I think the real mom & pop tobacconists may avoid them super high priced cigars. They'll languish on the shelf unless they really live up to the price, which I doubt. Like those ultra high priced Gurkhas back in the day? Where are they now?
Wookie Posted May 5, 2023 Posted May 5, 2023 I’ve noticed all/many of the big name boutique brands seem to be coming out with $25-40 cigars now. Half wheel is reviewing them and the producers seem to be making the effort as the reviews are decent. My question is how does one know if a leaf is superior? Or are they just picking from a section of crop that is known to produce better tasting leaves? 1
Popular Post Puros Y Vino Posted May 5, 2023 Popular Post Posted May 5, 2023 Besides the flavour profiles, the gaudiness of NC marketing is the real turnoff for me. The silly boxes, themes, names, barberpole wrappers, etc. I think we can surmise it's nothing to do with "quality leaf". Outside of Padron and Fuente, I wouldn't put much stock in those claims. I've smoked some Padron 1000 series, 1932, 1964 and the 50th Anniversary sticks. There is definitely a leaf quality hierarchy at play there that can be justified in the pricing. They are probably raising prices because Habanos is and know that the majority or US smokers are not savvy enough or willing to buy Cuban cigars on principle. And those that did will turn to NC's more often and they're catching them on that pricing wave, but in a downward fashion. 5
jazzboypro Posted May 5, 2023 Posted May 5, 2023 There is no way i'm paying that much for a NC. Personally, when the price is over roughly 25$ CAN for a cigars it's becoming a waste of money no matter the brand. 1
Cigar Surgeon Posted May 5, 2023 Posted May 5, 2023 $60 cigars don't cost that much more to make than $15 cigars, but I've never observed this many super premium releases in the NC world as the last year or so. 1
BrightonCorgi Posted May 5, 2023 Posted May 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Cigar Surgeon said: $60 cigars don't cost that much more to make than $15 cigars, but I've never observed this many super premium releases in the NC world as the last year or so. Same with wine. The most expensive wines in the world only cost the vineyard $30 or less. Terrior and demand; not manufacturing cost determines price after a certain amount. Cigar merchants will tread lightly before placing a big order of ultra NC's. I bet Cigar Aficionado will be lock step with the NC brands. Expect glowing reviews and promotion to justify the price. 2
btp1979 Posted May 5, 2023 Posted May 5, 2023 3 hours ago, SCgarman said: Like those ultra high priced Gurkhas back in the day? Where are they now? There still there and selling. It's literally the exact same construct with any/all luxury commodities. No surprises here.
Wookie Posted May 5, 2023 Posted May 5, 2023 3 hours ago, Puros Y Vino said: Besides the flavour profiles, the gaudiness of NC marketing is the real turnoff for me. The silly boxes, themes, names, barberpole wrappers, etc. I think we can surmise it's nothing to do with "quality leaf". Outside of Padron and Fuente, I wouldn't put much stock in those claims. I've smoked some Padron 1000 series, 1932, 1964 and the 50th Anniversary sticks. There is definitely a leaf quality hierarchy at play there that can be justified in the pricing. They are probably raising prices because Habanos is and know that the majority or US smokers are not savvy enough or willing to buy Cuban cigars on principle. And those that did will turn to NC's more often and they're catching them on that pricing wave, but in a downward fashion. So are you saying that the new high priced NC cigars are not selecting from known/better crop areas/terroirs? I won’t pay for these things, but I can’t believe aladino/foundation/Roma craft etc would be willing to tarnish their rep by not finding a way to select the best stock for expensive offerings. Opus X is a pale reflection of its 1990s offerings….but they did something special back then and probably got greedy and over-farmed a good thing. IMHO they were the first NC to be truly great. 1
Popular Post Corylax18 Posted May 5, 2023 Popular Post Posted May 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Wookie said: So are you saying that the new high priced NC cigars are not selecting from known/better crop areas/terroirs? I won’t pay for these things, but I can’t believe aladino/foundation/Roma craft etc would be willing to tarnish their rep by not finding a way to select the best stock for expensive offerings. Opus X is a pale reflection of its 1990s offerings….but they did something special back then and probably got greedy and over-farmed a good thing. IMHO they were the first NC to be truly great. Have you seen any reports in the last 5 years detailing exponential growth in new "better crop areas/terroir?" Remember all this tobacco they are charging 3, 5, 10 times as much for was grown several years ago, even longer than that if you believe any of the marketing. Sure, plenty of rollers and factory managers left Cuba for other central American countries the last few years, but that isn't a positive for quality. The same thing is happening in Cuba, they had a couple good harvests in a row, but they haven't discovered some new miracle tobacco strain, they haven't made any actual improvement in the drying/processing of tobacco, they haven't invested a red cent into improving quality. In fact, its gone the other way. Both the Cubans and the Non Cuban companies are charging these ridiculous prices for the same old thing. 5
Wookie Posted May 5, 2023 Posted May 5, 2023 18 minutes ago, Corylax18 said: Have you seen any reports in the last 5 years detailing exponential growth in new "better crop areas/terror?" Remember all this tobacco they are charging 3, 5, 10 times as much for was grown several years ago, even longer than that if you believe any of the marketing. Sure, plenty of rollers and factory managers left Cuba for other central American countries the last few years, but that isn't a positive for quality. The same thing is happening in Cuba, they had a couple good harvests in a row, but they haven't discovered some new miracle tobacco strain, they haven't made any actual improvement in the drying/processing of tobacco, they haven't invested a red cent into improving quality. In fact, its gone the other way. Both the Cubans and the Non Cuban companies are charging these ridiculous prices for the same old thing. That’s kinda what I figured. That said, there are definitely NC producers finding good material and making good sticks. But as you said, I cannot imagine they’ve found any miracle strains to justify the premium pricing. I wonder how Behike found the miracle strain? The one I had was amazing. I don’t care for Cohiba any longer…but in the 1990s I thought the esplendido was otherworldly.
Corylax18 Posted May 5, 2023 Posted May 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Wookie said: I wonder how Behike found the miracle strain? Marketing. The "Mythical" medio tiempo leaf is worth it weight in gold, if you believe the marketing. If you talk to farmers, rollers, blenders in the Cuban cigar industry, they'll tell you its just slightly stronger ligero (which it is) and if you want a cigar that smacks your palette with strength, they can just add more ligero. 1
BrightonCorgi Posted May 5, 2023 Posted May 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Wookie said: Opus X is a pale reflection of its 1990s offerings….but they did something special back then and probably got greedy and over-farmed a good thing. IMHO they were the first NC to be truly great. I had a Don Carlos churchill sized cigar a couple of months ago. It was hardly the Don Carlos I remember, even before the Opus X came out. Am I being a grumpy olde man, but are all cigars generally a shadow of their former glory? Sure some marcas have ups and downs...
Cigar Surgeon Posted May 5, 2023 Posted May 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Wookie said: So are you saying that the new high priced NC cigars are not selecting from known/better crop areas/terroirs? I won’t pay for these things, but I can’t believe aladino/foundation/Roma craft etc would be willing to tarnish their rep by not finding a way to select the best stock for expensive offerings. Opus X is a pale reflection of its 1990s offerings….but they did something special back then and probably got greedy and over-farmed a good thing. IMHO they were the first NC to be truly great. RoMa cigars are still quite affordable, around the $10 mark. Part of that is because they've eaten margin on tobacco increases. Aladino cigars I'd argue are too inexpensive, and they should be charging $2 a cigar more. Foundation is about where they should be as a brand that doesn't own tobacco and is being made out of someone else's factory (AJ Fernandez). There's an upper limit to what the cost of finished tobacco is, and if someone puts out a $50 cigar or a $35 cigar it's not because the tobacco that makes it up costs $15. It's because they have chosen to make a product and market it at that price point. 2
Wookie Posted May 5, 2023 Posted May 5, 2023 IDK what you all think about bespoke/casdagli, but they seem to be making some pretty good cigars….I have a ton of their stuff. To what do we attribute to their ability to make high quality product? (Assuming you like their blends)
El Presidente Posted May 5, 2023 Author Posted May 5, 2023 9 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said: I wonder how cigar merchants will accept these? Will they want to promote them to their customer base? The book is already written. A. Very limited run. B. Stock sells out. C. Retailer reorders. D. Retailer on a waiting list. Bingo bango bongo. "Remarkable success". New price point achieved. 2
Cairo Posted May 5, 2023 Posted May 5, 2023 5 hours ago, Corylax18 said: Remember all this tobacco they are charging 3, 5, 10 times as much for was grown several years ago, even longer than that if you believe any of the marketing. Great post. "Luxury" NCs (other than Padron and Fuente) usually go on deep discounts after a few years sitting on the shelves. I have bought dozens of different ones on deep discounts in the past couple of decades. CLE makes a solid product, but my guess is their high cost brand would be hard to distinguish from their regular offerings in a blind taste test. I will wait for them to show up at my usual NC deep discount online retailers--no rush to find out if I am correct or not.
Çnote Posted May 6, 2023 Posted May 6, 2023 9 hours ago, El Presidente said: The book is already written. A. Very limited run. B. Stock sells out. C. Retailer reorders. D. Retailer on a waiting list. Bingo bango bongo. "Remarkable success". New price point achieved. I beat the same drum Liquor wine & beer playbook => see Cristal, Grey Goose, PvW etc ad nauseum. The average consumer wants to have a 'luxury' product and is willing to part with sheckles to have the 'luxury' experience and be a part of an 'exclusive' community. 7 hours ago, Cairo said: Luxury" NCs (other than Padron and Fuente) usually go on deep discounts after a few years sitting on the shelves. Super savvy buying. A sharp retailer will love you cleaning their shelves to make room for the next fad. 7 hours ago, Cairo said: I will wait for them to show up at my usual NC deep discount online retailers--no rush to find out if I am correct or not. I love a honey hole that will give a double discount to take 'old' stock. Please charge me less for the ready to smoke inventory, I'll be back soon!
traveller Posted May 7, 2023 Posted May 7, 2023 They're following CC's prices up. When you hear a Cohiba is a $100 dollars a stick, $60 dollars doesn't seem that bad for someone who still wants to ball out.
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