Reading the Room

[Puros Y Vino]

I chose Ambivalent and Resigned.  IMO there is no turning back. Habanos is targeting Uber millionaires, billionaires and despots as their target market.  I'm in touch with a lot of newer cigar smokers locally and across Canada. Many want Cubans, have some in their humidors, but are resigned to never affording the ones they want (Cohiba, Trinidad) going forward. So a lot of daily talk on the discord channel is what NC's are Cubanesque, etc.  Davidoff seems to be a go-to for a lot of them.  I guess it provides the prestige of Cohiba with some added mystique of using Cuban tobacco in their early days.  I personally have plenty of CC's for some time to come.  I will probably never buy another Cohiba or Trinidad as well.  I have plenty to smoke from.  I do like the new Partagas Maestras line.  The bands/color motif is such an odd departure style-wise.  The 46RG one interests me the most, but I'm open to trying the other two as well.  If these ever land in your hands Rob, I do hope you sell some samplers of them (2 of each for a 6'r)  Any Cubans I pick up going forward will be in the "cheap and cheerful" category for the most part.

[benfica_77]

On 3/4/2023 at 1:04 AM, Puros Y Vino said:

I chose Ambivalent and Resigned.  IMO there is no turning back. Habanos is targeting Uber millionaires, billionaires and despots as their target market.  I'm in touch with a lot of newer cigar smokers locally and across Canada. Many want Cubans, have some in their humidors, but are resigned to never affording the ones they want (Cohiba, Trinidad) going forward. So a lot of daily talk on the discord channel is what NC's are Cubanesque, etc.  Davidoff seems to be a go-to for a lot of them.  I guess it provides the prestige of Cohiba with some added mystique of using Cuban tobacco in their early days.  I personally have plenty of CC's for some time to come.  I will probably never buy another Cohiba or Trinidad as well.  I have plenty to smoke from.  I do like the new Partagas Maestras line.  The bands/color motif is such an odd departure style-wise.  The 46RG one interests me the most, but I'm open to trying the other two as well.  If these ever land in your hands Rob, I do hope you sell some samplers of them (2 of each for a 6'r)  Any Cubans I pick up going forward will be in the "cheap and cheerful" category for the most part.

Well said Frank. 

I'll be focusing my purchases on value CC's....if they "rebrand" Por Larranaga and make it premium I will hurt someone lol 

[blondietuco]

Didn't realize you could choose two, but I chose resigned.  As others have said, price/risk ratio is too out of whack for me.  I have had many boxes of 10 over the last seven years, and if I averaged them all out, probably 50% didn't have any issues and made me go "mmm, cuban". That's not enough value for me.  I cut my teeth on Non-Cuban cigars, so not that big of a deal for me.  I cut Rolex loose this past year as well.  Actually sold a Sub No date and bought the Bond Titanium Seamaster instead.  Way more accurate as well.  If Habanas SA only wants to sell the the .5%, God bless them.

[SCgarman]

17 hours ago, Fuzz said:

New Coke?

Thank goodness that disaster was short lived. Total debacle of an idea.

[Cairo]

6 hours ago, Puros Y Vino said:

Davidoff seems to be a go-to for a lot of them. 

Starting last year I began sampling the various lines of NC Davidoff to see if they were worth the coin to me.   Their high prices had kept me away in the past but since I wasn't spending any more money on ccs I decided to go for it.

The headline--they are not in the same league as quality ccs.

They are overpriced for what they are imho.

The one exception (and this was very unexpected to me) was the short-filler primeros.

The Escurio and Maduro Nicaragua primeros are very tasty little powerhouses--and reasonably priced as well.    I think fans of Party Shorts and RASCCs would probably enjoy them.

[Hammer Smokin']

On 3/3/2023 at 9:59 AM, El Presidente said:

Can't see that it in the poll numbers nor in practice (retail ground floor).  Some have quit, most are cutting back by mixing in NC, significant number haven't moved the needle in terms of change at all.

(of course, assuming "Moved on" means "never purchase again)

I understand we are reading things differently, but it's pretty easy to say 75% of members here are pissed, devastated or resigned. That is easily seen as "moved on".

But I also understand were only talking semantics.  You can slice and dice stats anyway ya want. That's the beauty of numbers. 

[El Presidente]

On 3/4/2023 at 8:23 AM, Hammer Smokin' said:

I understand we are reading things differently, but it's pretty easy to say 75% of members here are pissed, devastated or resigned. That is easily seen as "moved on".

But I also understand were only talking semantics.  You can slice and dice stats anyway ya want. That's the beauty of numbers. 

Agreed.

Looking at it a different way, I have no doubt 75% of members feel "let down". 

Buyer demand (total) hasn't moved to date but that may be simply site specific. There are some regional movements. North America certainly down, Asia/Europe way up. Swings and roundabouts. 

[PuroDiario]

On 3/2/2023 at 5:25 PM, El Presidente said:

Roughly 30% "ish" of Habanos client base disenfranchised.  Keep in mind, this was by design. 

Can anyone tell me of a similar brutal corporate retail repositioning? 

Burberry maybe clearest in recent times. 

[GavLew79]

On 3/2/2023 at 10:25 PM, El Presidente said:

Roughly 30% "ish" of Habanos client base disenfranchised.  Keep in mind, this was by design. 

Can anyone tell me of a similar brutal corporate retail repositioning? 

Not quite in the same league, but similar price hikes;

Burgundy wines - I could get good village level wines like Gevrey Chambertin for £15 10 years ago, then it was £25-30 for a while. Now it's £60+. 

Older whiskies are flying up. Glenfarclas 25 was £99 two years ago. Now it's £225. Glen Scotia 25 is now £500. 😑

[dominattorney]

15 hours ago, PuroDiario said:

Burberry maybe clearest in recent times. 

Rolex over the last 40 years for sure. 

[blondietuco]

20 hours ago, dominattorney said:

Rolex over the last 40 years for sure. 

Rolex had fairly steady increases year over year.  My bigger issue with them is the fact that the MSRP/AD market is pretty much non-existent.  I bought four Rolexes from 2017-2018.  Simple walk in and buy them.  No problem.  Now, the AD's have no stock, but all the grey's do.  Seems counter to the AD model when the AD's shelves are empty, and all the folks that supposedly can't get watches have them.  As a practice, it's off putting, and soured me on the brand.  

[dominattorney]

20 minutes ago, blondietuco said:

Rolex had fairly steady increases year over year.  My bigger issue with them is the fact that the MSRP/AD market is pretty much non-existent.  I bought four Rolexes from 2017-2018.  Simple walk in and buy them.  No problem.  Now, the AD's have no stock, but all the grey's do.  Seems counter to the AD model when the AD's shelves are empty, and all the folks that supposedly can't get watches have them.  As a practice, it's off putting, and soured me on the brand.  

Has soured me as well. But ultimately, what does it for me more than Grey market insanity was the fact that even MSRP is priced insanely out of the "tool watch" category upon which Rolex forged its image. My father bought a GMT master for 3 or 400 bucks back in the 70s. That was a lot of money to spend on a watch back then but it wasn't the equivalent of $10,700, which is MSRP for the oystersteel GMT master 2 at present time. It was between $1,500 and $2,000 in today's dollars. A lot of money, sure, but an amount you could save up for as a guy working hard and sacking money away. We're also talking about a utilitarian tool, not a luxury item. Rolex is anything but utilitarian right now. That's what made me think about the link between their business model and HSA. 

[Monterey]

There's a great on going thread "Lets talk about watches" a few people here should go review.

Goofy man jewelry. 

[blondietuco]

On 3/6/2023 at 8:47 AM, Monterey said:

There's a great on going thread "Lets talk about watches" a few people here should go review.

Goofy man jewelry. 

Not really.  Prior to cell phones, how did one keep the time?  Pocketwatch?

[NSXCIGAR]

14 minutes ago, blondietuco said:

Not really.  Prior to cell phones, how did one keep the time?  Pocketwatch?

I wore watches to keep time. After cell phones, didn't need one anymore. 

[thecrowder]

On 3/2/2023 at 3:25 PM, El Presidente said:

Roughly 30% "ish" of Habanos client base disenfranchised.  Keep in mind, this was by design. 

Can anyone tell me of a similar brutal corporate retail repositioning? 

Probably not as brutal, but Legos did a similar retail repositioning. Used to be mainly kids toys and now they strongly target collectors and adult builders with sets that can costs several hundreds of dollars at retail (if you can find them) and thousands on secondary markets. They still have some reasonably priced sets, but prices have definitely increased significantly and good luck finding them around the holidays.