Reading the Room

[El Presidente]

Taking a Temperature Reading  

Pick two 

[Corylax18]

The New line of "Partagas" Cigars is the future of HSA. First Cohiba, then Monte, then RYJ, now Partagas. They're just moving down the sales list and recreating what they want each brand to be. Eventually the "old" lines will be gutted entirely, leaving nothing but the "Ultra Elite" lines of each "brand."

I learned a lot about the new HSA co president and her past roles. I spoke to a couple former HSA/Tabacuba employees and none of it made me confident that HSA will be changing course anytime soon. She ran the "Strategic Marketing" department at HSA for nearly 7 years, during the creation of both the BHK and Monte Linea Series. Her success in that area was apparently a large part of why she has her current position. 

The writing is on the wall. Tobacco production volume and quality have very little chance of remaining flat, let alone increasing. The infrastructure continues to worsen, farmers are aging, very few young Cubans have any interest in the cigar industry. So rather than work to increase volumes and focus on the cigars themselves, the plan is to squeeze every last penny out of every last gram of tobacco they can steal from the farmers. Change the focus to bands and boxes. Backstories and "Collectability"

Its a perfect storm of pressure from both sides. I watched One Man purchase 27 Boxes of Trinidad Casildas from a single Cigar store in Havana last week. At $8,034 retail, that's $216,918. Plus tip.

They were sitting inches from my shoulder as I smoked a $5 Double Robusto. Two full Master Cases. Now, I don't know what country he was from, but he was speaking Mandarin and his driver loaded the boxes into the back of a Chinese Embassy tagged S650. So, it doesn't take a rocket scientist. 

HSA doesn't need us anymore, they don't want us anymore. The sooner they can get 3 figures a stick, for every stick, the better. Its a perfect storm, from both sides. Its worked so far and it looks like it will continue to work. Until it doesn't. The only hope for a working man's Cuban cigar is privatization. Once again, the communists have ruined it all for the ones the system Should be built for.   

[Tunkat92]

Devastating for sure, for so many reasons

[El Presidente]

3 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

I learned a lot about the new HSA co president and her past roles. I spoke to a couple former HSA/Tabacuba employees and none of it made me confident that HSA will be changing course anytime soon. She ran the "Strategic Marketing" department at HSA for nearly 7 years, during the creation of both the BHKK and Monte Linea Series. Her success in that area was apparently a large part of why she has her current position. 

 

To be fair, most of them come through the marketing department at some stage. Former VP Maique is an example. 

If they were any good they would be in Miami by now 

[El Presidente]

6 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

 I watched One Man purchase 27 Boxes of Trinidad Casilda's from a single Cigar store in Havana last week. At $8,034 retail, that's $216,918. Plus tip.

 

 

Great to see Trinidad has started to move 

 

[canadianbeaver]

Was in San Diego the other day at this cool and groovy cafe having brunch. At the table next to us were three gentlemen. Two were tanned and normal looking golfing type guys. One was a dark haired giant fellow who looked like he was on the Sopranos. They were talking about which places were selling cigars. Not to buy them. As agents who sell them, like marketing sales guys. My ears were glued.

I was staring at them I guess so I smiled and told them I loved what they were talking about! A few minutes later we were all chatting together and they thought my love for Cuban cigars was entertaining. Big fellow was the marketing fellow for Cohiba Red dot, Ghurka, Fuente Macanudo, yadda yadda yadda. 

“And by the way, you know beaver, Cubans have not been Cuban in 20 years so just enjoy anything you want.”

And that was just the other day. 
 

CB

[Corylax18]

6 hours ago, El Presidente said:

 

Great to see Trinidad has started to move 

 

Fortunately, that was the only box I saw sell all week. From Club Habana and Palco, through to Melia Habana and Partagas, every shop I visited had plenty of boxes of Trinidads on hand. All the sizes. Cohibas where still restricted to mostly Sig I and II, but I did see a handful of Medio Siglo IIIs and even a box of IVs. Plenty of Robustos and Maduro series too. In fact, stock was strong across the board, it doesn't look like much is moving, even in the few days before the first HSA festival in years, the shelves where loaded. Full master cases stacked in corners. It doesn't look like much at all is moving down there right now. 

 

[Slayer]

Cohiba, Monte, RyJ, Partagas … the First Growth chateaux. Upmann to make the five complete. Trinidads the Romanee Conti. Who are drinking these daily? (The s650s)

My bet is the Aussie wines (Nudies) will become daily drinkers. 😊 Looking forward to the Canonazos!

[Monterey]

They are dead to me.   Done buying Cubans.  I'm here on the site to vent and for the nudies.

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

Fortunately, that was the only box I saw sell all week

I was also hearing about crazy demand for Casildas. I hadn't even thought about them. I thought the last of them had been bought up a year or two ago. I guess they'd been making them again. I hadn't even realized they were on the price list and I thought they must still be at the old price of $1,600 or something. Then I checked it and saw $8,034 and almost needed a diaper. I just checked on BR and three sold in the last 60 days for $4,000, $4,400 & $5,300. And people are buying in Cuba for $8,000? What the hell is going on?

So we have Casildas at $334/stick and anyone thinks the GR Esplendidos won't be $1,000? 

[Corylax18]

3 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I guess they'd been making them again.

I have a feeling these boxes had been sitting around for a while waiting on a "special" buyer. Their sale the Sunday before the first festival in 3 years was not coincidental. I also saw a couple more "build your own master case" situations at another well travelled shop. Two Boxes of BHK 56, some Herederos, a couple boxes of the new Juan Lopez Seleccion Especial (I have to admit, these boxes are very attractive to the touch and eye), and that was just the top layer. A lot of this stuff had been piling up in backrooms for the last 3 years and is only seeing the light of day this week. 

3 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

So we have Casildas at $334/stick and anyone thinks the GR Esplendidos won't be $1,000? 

Yeah, HSA would be stupid not to list them for $2k a stick, with the limited numbers, they're already sold out at that price. 

[NSXCIGAR]

5 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

some Herederos

That's the first I've heard they've been released. Would have been nice to get one at the welcome event. 

I know the few JL SE and LGC Glorias floating around this week have late 22 codes so they weren't holding those. 

[Arabian]

12 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

They were sitting inches from my shoulder as I smoked a $5 Double Robusto. Two full Master Cases. Now, I don't know what country he was from, but he was speaking Mandarin and his driver loaded the boxes into the back of a Chinese Embassy tagged S650. So, it doesn't take a rocket scientist.

a mule or an ultra-rich. those boxes will be thrown in a diplomatic pouch and shipped back to China. 

[Corylax18]

13 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

That's the first I've heard they've been released. Would have been nice to get one at the welcome event. 

I know the few JL SE and LGC Glorias floating around this week have late 22 codes so they weren't holding those. 

A lot of what I saw had late 22 codes. Even just regular production wise. I wasn't able to grab photos of any Escaprates (terrible light, only a cell phone camera), but I took a quick stop by La Corona last Tuesday as everyone was finishing up for the day.(they get a sweet school bus instead of the local bus system) I've never seen so many rolled cigars in one place. The cigars should only need a couple weeks to dry out, some at La Corona have been in there for 6 months now, just waiting on boxes/bands/packaging. 

The "La Corona Express":

 

 

[Juliano88]

Pretty much done. The cost and QC issues are not worth it for me anymore. I am here in the states and luckily my upbringing in this hobby has been new world cigars. And there are plenty of great cigars coming out of Nicaragua and the DR that I enjoy equally regarding flavors and don't have to deal with aging, plugs and inconsistencies.  

[helix]

Yellow school buses from Quebec,  Canada in the early 2000's there are/were a couple hundred of these on Cuba's roads. They were distributed to both the long distance carriers and the city transit agencies, so you'll see them everywhere. After 10 or so years they expire for Quebec school use and are just about worthless. 

[El Presidente]

Roughly 30% "ish" of Habanos client base disenfranchised.  Keep in mind, this was by design. 

Can anyone tell me of a similar brutal corporate retail repositioning? 

[Hammer Smokin']

I would look at those numbers as 3 out of 4 have moved on. 75% is much different than 30%.

[Corylax18]

On 3/3/2023 at 9:38 AM, Hammer Smokin' said:

I would look at those numbers as 3 out of 4 have moved on. 75% is much different than 30%.

I'd have to agree. It certainly seems ALOT higher than 30%. I choose Ambivalent and Resigned. I worked through the other stages of grief years ago. 90% of my cigar spend in the last 5ish years has been on custom and farm rolled Cubans. I started making the transition before many, but not all. The other 10% is now split between the very rare regular production NC or CC that I still feed the need to experiment with. 

I understand that not everyone has the ability to travel to the source and get what the want themselves, but HSA closing the door on me opened a door to another world that I'm not only happy with, but have grown to prefer. There are other alternatives, regardless of where you live.

[El Presidente]

On 3/3/2023 at 9:38 AM, Hammer Smokin' said:

I would look at those numbers as 3 out of 4 have moved on. 75% is much different than 30%.

Can't see that it in the poll numbers nor in practice (retail ground floor).  Some have quit, most are cutting back by mixing in NC, significant number haven't moved the needle in terms of change at all.

(Of course, assuming "Moved on" means "never purchase again.)

 

[Fuzz]

2 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Roughlty 30% "ish" of Habanos client base disenfranchised.  Keep in mind, this was by design. 

Can anyone tell me of a similar brutal  corporate retail repositioning? 

New Coke?

[ChangBang]

It sucks but with lockdown over and travel opening up again, my cigar habit has gone down considerably.  Will smoke what I have then will have to reevaluate what I plan on keeping in stock.  The price increases has mostly just stopped me from trying anything new or splurging on a way too expensive box now(Siglo III). 

Actually kind of looking forward to consolidating stock I've accumulated - I'm using 2 wine fridges as my main humidors and it would be nice to actually put wine into one of them haha

[JohnS]

7 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Roughly 30% "ish" of Habanos client base disenfranchised.  Keep in mind, this was by design. 

Can anyone tell me of a similar brutal corporate retail repositioning? 

The first thing that came to mind was the numerous instances of racial/cultural genocide in the 20th century, both East and West. Never turns out to plan, though.

[NSXCIGAR]

8 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

I understand that not everyone has the ability to travel to the source and get what the want...

You're right--if I wasn't traveling to Cuba so often it would be brutal for my regular rotation. Scoring anything on the 24:24 is a crapshoot and things I smoke come up maybe twice a week. Can you even find Connie 2 or La Fuerza anywhere right now? Even if you could you're paying $500 for those. I can easily pick them up in Cuba for $350. I would be totally screwed if I wasn't there so often. How lucky I am I can sit here and smoke a $15 Distinguidos right now. 

[LordAnubis]

10 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Can't see that it in the poll numbers nor in practice (retail ground floor).  Some have quit, most are cutting back by mixing in NC, significant number haven't moved the needle in terms of change at all.

(of course, assuming "Moved on" means "never purchase again)

Of course. We’re a prime example. Taxes went up and up and up. Shook the weak from the tree. But the majority kept on putting the money down. This is no different. The weak will be one side of the water. The strong on the other side will pick up the slack easily.