CDC: Majority of Americans Support Total Ban of Tobacco Products

[Nevrknow]

1 hour ago, yossie said:

I'm very interested in how this works.  I've seen previous wars against alcohol, drug,gun and even face-mask. US citizens, better or worse , maniacally like to save their(sometime even harmful) own rights .

We have to. Once they're gone, rights are almost impossible to get back. We prefer not to just lay down and subserviently accept what we're told to do 

[SCgarman]

13 hours ago, Nevrknow said:

But, but, but banning something has ALWAYS worked before................. right............?  😂

Alcohol prohibition worked real well!🤣 

Nothing to lose sleep over folks. Just an article for fodder. How many Americans here or anywhere trust anything the CDC says anyway. The pandemic proved what an incompetent joke they really are. 

[Greenhorn2]

2 hours ago, Nevrknow said:

We have to. Once they're gone, rights are almost impossible to get back. We prefer not to just lay down and subserviently accept what we're told to do 

I don't know, seems like there's a majority shift of "the government knows what's best for us so if they say so...."

[BrightonCorgi]

13 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

as for the taxes argument, it will vary from country to country but given the health costs caused by smoking (yes, cigarettes in the vast majority of cases but govets don't care), that will balance out and may even be revenue positive. and if they are fining people, even more so. 

For countries with advanced health care systems; smokers cost less in total life time healthcare cost.  They die sooner and faster; less expensive than someone a decade plus in assisted living or nursing homes.  Growing old is expensive.  Smokers relative strain on healthcare wasn't calculated by actuaries.

If bans and taxes were done solely for the benefit the healthcare systems; governments would be far better off banning sports.  Sports related injuries are more excessive (financially) than smoking on society.

[Cairo]

1 hour ago, BrightonCorgi said:

smokers cost less in total life time healthcare cost. 

If governments just crunched numbers they would end up with a "Logan's Run" dystopian scenario (everybody must die at age 30).

At a minimum they would want everyone dead before they collected Social Security.

Governments are not going to be listening to their accountants and actuaries on this stuff.

[GoodStix]

17 hours ago, yossie said:

US citizens, better or worse , maniacally like to save their (sometime even harmful) own rights .

Thankfully!

[KRunch61]

The anti-tobacco push, like many other bad ideas, almost always begins with indoctrination in public schools at an early age. The ever increasing focus is less on knowledge and more on social issues.

Decentralize (privatize) education at ALL levels and most of these anti-liberty ideas will become too diffused to gain any significant traction.

Smoke on!

[Hammer Smokin']

agreed. maybe they could give out cigars to grade eight grads. pro-liberty !!!

[MrBirdman]

2 hours ago, Hammer Smokin' said:

agreed. maybe they could give out cigars to grade eight grads. pro-liberty !!!

Real liberty would be free cigars from K through 12!!!!

[NSXCIGAR]

On 2/5/2023 at 7:31 AM, Cairo said:

At a minimum they would want everyone dead before they collected Social Security.

That was precisely the idea. When social security started the average life expectancy was below the qualification age. 

On 2/5/2023 at 5:45 AM, BrightonCorgi said:

If bans and taxes were done solely for the benefit the healthcare systems; governments would be far better off banning sports.

How about sugar? Without a doubt far more deadly than tobacco. And I would still argue alcohol likely results in more deaths than tobacco. 

[BrightonCorgi]

4 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

How about sugar? Without a doubt far more deadly than tobacco. And I would still argue alcohol likely results in more deaths than tobacco. 

Exactly.  It's not about improving health or life expectancy in any real pragmatic manner.  Everyone is worried on 2nd hand smoke while we drink from plastic that is slowly killing us.

[Corylax18]

On 2/5/2023 at 6:45 AM, BrightonCorgi said:

Sports related injuries are more excessive (financially) than smoking on society.

Do you have any kind of evidence backing this up? I know kids get concussions(I had like 5), but you're telling me, healthy, athletic people are a larger burden on the healthcare system that smokers? That seems more than just far fetched. 

[BrightonCorgi]

11 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

Do you have any kind of evidence backing this up? I know kids get concussions(I had like 5), but you're telling me, healthy, athletic people are a larger burden on the healthcare system that smokers? That seems more than just far fetched. 

There are plenty of articles that talk about this subject

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/the-steep-economic-cost-of-contact-sports-injuries

 

[Corylax18]

20 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

There are plenty of articles that talk about this subject

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/the-steep-economic-cost-of-contact-sports-injuries

 

You're going to have to do way better than that. A journalist and a professor did a "study"? Haha Come on man. As an academic, Mr. Ray Fair should be ashamed of him self. The more I look at that article the more holes there are. 

Their analysis seems to completly ignore any costs benefits from sports, like say the $1.5 billion dollars that JUST NFL players paid in federal income taxes Last year. Its easily 2 billion if you add in Hockey players. It seems to ignore the thousands of Jobs and additional billions in tax revenue generated at the thousands of pro sporting events held every year. It completely ignores the fact that Most Division I NCAA football programs PAY millions of dollars into their respective universities, actually enhancing the quality of the school for everyone. 

$21.5 Billion, is these schills absolute worst case scenario for yearly costs. Do you know how much the CDC estimated cigarette smokers added health care costs where in 2018?

$600 BILLION. Only about 30 times more. Hahaha

Do you have any other "studies" that help fill that $580 billion dollar gap? Shit, lets say the CDC gave this study the covid treatment and the reality is actually only half as bad. Can you find any studies to fill that $280 billion gap?

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/cost-and-expenditures.html#:~:text=More than %24240 billion in healthcare spending%2C&text=Nearly %24185 billion in lost,related illnesses and health conditions%2C&text=Nearly %24180 billion in lost productivity from smoking-related premature death%2C&text=%247 billion in lost productivity from premature death from secondhand smoke exposure.

[BrightonCorgi]

3 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

You're going to have to do way better than that. A journalist and a professor did a "study"? Haha Come on man. As an academic, Mr. Ray Fair should be ashamed of him self. The more I look at that article the more holes there are. 

Their analysis seems to completly ignore any costs benefits from sports, like say the $1.5 billion dollars that JUST NFL players paid in federal income taxes Last year. Its easily 2 billion if you add in Hockey players. It seems to ignore the thousands of Jobs and additional billions in tax revenue generated at the thousands of pro sporting events held every year. It completely ignores the fact that Most Division I NCAA football programs PAY millions of dollars into their respective universities, actually enhancing the quality of the school for everyone. 

$21.5 Billion, is these schills absolute worst case scenario for yearly costs. Do you know how much the CDC estimated cigarette smokers added health care costs where in 2018?

$600 BILLION. Only about 30 times more. Hahaha

Do you have any other "studies" that help fill that $580 billion dollar gap? Shit, lets say the CDC gave this study the covid treatment and the reality is actually only half as bad. Can you find any studies to fill that $280 billion gap?

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/cost-and-expenditures.html#:~:text=More than %24240 billion in healthcare spending%2C&text=Nearly %24185 billion in lost,related illnesses and health conditions%2C&text=Nearly %24180 billion in lost productivity from smoking-related premature death%2C&text=%247 billion in lost productivity from premature death from secondhand smoke exposure.

You mixing many things together.  Someone who dies that smokes, may not have died from smoking.  Someone tears an ACL playing sports; it was from sports.  Income tax has nothing to do with it.  How may professional sports athletes are in the US?  3-4K at best?  Sports injuries I am talking about are regular people going to chiropractor, PT, need ortho surgeries, etc...  Massively huge market.  Look at how many ads on TV are for aches and pains due to physical activity.

Just like Covid deaths are how they lump smoking.  Someone has Covid but dies from a heart attack they call it a Covid death. 

My assertion earlier is that smokers who "die from smoking" die sooner and quicker than those who just die from being old and need elder care, nursing home etc...

[Cigar Surgeon]

I used to host a pairing show for years with a good friend of mine Rob Rasmussen.  I can't remember what show it was on but we were chatting about a similar topic, and this is many years ago.  He said something that has stuck with me ever since:

"John, if the State of California put a referendum in the next vote that suggested they raise taxes on tobacco 500% and all the proceeds would go towards clubbing baby seals to death, live on television; that referendum would pass with an 86% margin. That's how much people hate tobacco."

[Timothy556]

On 2/5/2023 at 4:27 AM, jakebarnes said:

I think the main part is buried by the lede: the cdc knows its methodology is terrible for this. It is basically clickbait

Exactly this. A survey is not a study and publishing in their own journal is suspect at best and most likely BS.