Chinese Cigars - What is the future?

[BrightonCorgi]

How long do you think it'll take for Chinese grown and rolled cigars to have a share (even a small one) of the global cigar market?  Has anyone tried a Chinese cigar?  Should the Caribbean nations be concerned?

[JustDave]

Isn't there already chinese grown tobacco used domestically?  

[Salomones]

China is the biggest Producer for Tobacco Worldwide. They already have Chinese Cigars. I tried. Not bad. But at the Moment not good enough for global selling.

[Corylax18]

HSA already has a pretty big market share, probably close to 50%. I think it would be a benefit to them to start rolling in China, the cigar culture is slowly dying in Cuba, so its not like they would be losing much. Anything you bought from HSA in the last 2ish years is technically, half Chinese. 

Now, in all seriousness, Google "Great Wall Cigars" They them selves don't have much of a website or electronic presence, but they've been advertising pretty heavy in Cigar aficionado for a few years now. They also seem to pay for a lot of "sponsored articles" in other cigar publications. At least I hope they're sponsored, otherwise I dont really understand the point of most of them. I know China grows some tobacco, but they import a TON of Dominican leaf as well. Most of that probably goes to fakes, but I'm sure great wall gets their hands on some of it. 

I have Zero interest in experimenting with them, if you get your hands on some. Let us know how they are! 

 

5 hours ago, Salomones said:

China is the biggest Producer for Tobacco Worldwide

If you include cigarette tobacco. The USA is 2nd, India was 3rd. But again, in all 3 countries the VAST majority of that is cigarette tobacco, no where near the quality level you would be looking for in a hand made cigar. 

[SCgarman]

5 hours ago, Corylax18 said:

HSA already has a pretty big market share, probably close to 50%. I think it would be a benefit to them to start rolling in China, the cigar culture is slowly dying in Cuba, so its not like they would be losing much. Anything you bought from HSA in the last 2ish years is technically, half Chinese. 

Now, in all seriousness, Google "Great Wall Cigars" They them selves don't have much of a website or electronic presence, but they've been advertising pretty heavy in Cigar aficionado for a few years now. They also seem to pay for a lot of "sponsored articles" in other cigar publications. At least I hope they're sponsored, otherwise I dont really understand the point of most of them. I know China grows some tobacco, but they import a TON of Dominican leaf as well. Most of that probably goes to fakes, but I'm sure great wall gets their hands on some of it. 

I have Zero interest in experimenting with them, if you get your hands on some. Let us know how they are! 

 

If you include cigarette tobacco. The USA is 2nd, India was 3rd. But again, in all 3 countries the VAST majority of that is cigarette tobacco, no where near the quality level you would be looking for in a hand made cigar. 

That may become reality. Send all the tobacco from Cuba to China and have it rolled there. Heck, they are already very good at counterfeiting many types of goods. They would have plenty of sets of hands to train to roll Cuban cigars, and would likely make good ones. The brain drain/talent drain from Cuba seems to be like a huge tidal wave. Cuba will likely never have full/well trained rolling rooms in the cigar factories ever again. 

[BrightonCorgi]

2 hours ago, SCgarman said:

They would have plenty of sets of hands to train to roll Cuban cigars, and would likely make good ones.

My choice would be to send Chinese to Cuba to do the manufacturing and preserve the provenance.

[SCgarman]

47 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said:

My choice would be to send Chinese to Cuba to do the manufacturing and preserve the provenance.

Good idea, but they would refuse. No food, no basic necessities in Cuba. Good luck even finding hygiene products for women. 

[Blakes]

55 minutes ago, SCgarman said:

Good idea, but they would refuse. No food, no basic necessities in Cuba. Good luck even finding hygiene products for women. 

Maybe a 'roll your own-iba' isn't too far off. A box full of leaf... and bands! 😉

 

 

[ATGroom]

Cuba has sent large numbers of people from all areas of the tobacco industry to China over the last 10 years to help establish a premium cigar industry there (farmers, rollers, factory managers, sommeliers, other specialists).

I've tried a few. Construction was perfect, including double figurado sizes etc. I was told they were deliberately blended to have a distinct 'Chinese taste.' I found them very very light. Not for me, but then I don't smoke NC either. There may be others produced in China that have more to them.

I don't know that they will catch on much worldwide, but I think it will be big business domestically in China.

[NSXCIGAR]

3 hours ago, BrightonCorgi said:

My choice would be to send Chinese to Cuba to do the manufacturing and preserve the provenance.

Even Chinese peasants earn more than Cubans. They couldn't afford it. 

[cigcars]

     *Philipino tobacco has a tendency to be on the "light side" but good. Canary Island tobacco is pretty light and tasteless but I've heard good reports about it just the same. Can anybody tell me about any sites that sell Chinese tobacco cigars? I've tried cigar tobacco of every type where ever I can find them. I'm pretty sure Chinese tobacco is pretty "light".  However nothing IMHO can be as disappointingly light as Fonseca Cosacos and KDT smokes - BORING, Atabay cigars, and Vegueros  

[El Presidente]

Great Wall makes around 2 million cigars a year. Rocky Patel 20 million.

Chinese "premium brands" have some way to go. 

[BrightonCorgi]

10 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Even Chinese peasants earn more than Cubans. They couldn't afford it. 

Plenty of basically slave labor in China too.  Maybe Nike can spare them?

 

13 hours ago, SCgarman said:

Good idea, but they would refuse. No food, no basic necessities in Cuba. Good luck even finding hygiene products for women. 

China can supply necessities to their own workers while in Cuba.

[JustDave]

On 8/6/2022 at 9:39 AM, Salomones said:

China is the biggest Producer for Tobacco Worldwide. They already have Chinese Cigars. I tried. Not bad. But at the Moment not good enough for global selling.

Reminds me of how much Wine is produced in Italy and Spain but never gets sold outside of the local markets.

Same with how much whiskey is produced in India, who then consumes ~50% of world wide production.

[NSXCIGAR]

21 hours ago, cigcars said:

However nothing IMHO can be as disappointingly light as Fonseca Cosacos and KDT smokes

Had a Macanudo lately?

[SCgarman]

7 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Had a Macanudo lately?

30 years ago. Not since then. They were my introduction to hand rolled cigars.😀

 

22 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Great Wall makes around 2 million cigars a year. Rocky Patel 20 million.

Chinese "premium brands" have some way to go. 

How many million did Cuba produce at full factory capacity? Does anybody make more than Rocky?

[Corylax18]

4 minutes ago, SCgarman said:

How many million did Cuba produce at full factory capacity? Does anybody make more than Rocky?

They said 260 million sticks in 2019. They say a lot of things though. Tabacalera's new factory can supposedly handle 40 million sticks a year and that's just one of their factories. Rocky may be the largest "independent" producer, but the big boys have him beat pretty easily. 

[El Presidente]

14 minutes ago, Corylax18 said:

They said 260 million sticks in 2019. They say a lot of things though. Tabacalera's new factory can supposedly handle 40 million sticks a year and that's just one of their factories. Rocky may be the largest "independent" producer, but the big boys have him beat pretty easily. 

Best guess: Cuba hand rolled, 85m max in 2019. 2022, 20m tops. 

I believe RP comes in 4th in terms of indpendent producers. 

[Rhinoww]

Given my limited knowledge of Chinese manufacturing process from two friends who live and work in Shanghai I don’t think I’ll be smoking anything that comes out of a Chinese cigar manufacturing plant. They can sell, I won’t be buying - because at the end of the day I’ll have little confidence in what I’ll actually be smoking. 
 

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, Corylax18 said:

They said 260 million sticks in 2019.

Should be about right based on 2018 numbers but more than half were machine mades. About 100 million hand made exports. 

They claim all of Asia Pacific is 16.2% of the market so China probably officially 10%, unofficially maybe another 10%? So that would mean about 20 million handmades going to China each year (until 2022).

[cigcars]

6 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Had a Macanudo lately?

      *They're actually improving these days with the variety of countries and strength levels being offered. I've had a few of them and have not been disappointed.  

 

[BrightonCorgi]

16 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

Had a Macanudo lately?

It makes sense for the burgeoning Chinese market as the lighter taste of Macanudo was a favorite of American consumers until the cigar boom of the mid 90's.  Consumer tastes will evolve in China and will soon be the similar to EMEA and NASA consumers.

5-10 years from now, Chinese cigars could be a notable alternate to Caribbean made cigars.

[Cigardan]

I live in china and have had many Chinese cigars. Until living here I smoked NC exclusively and am just getting into CC. A Chinese cigar will do in a pinch but overall they are far inferior on flavor compared to non-Chinese NC and CC. Great Wall and Wang Guan have the best tasting cigars, with the more expensive Great Wall being OK. But a $75 great wall special Perfecto is only about as good as a decent $10 NC.

My understanding is that nearly all Chinese tobacco goes to cigarettes so even great wall cigars might only use a leaf or two in the cigar bunch. Mostly it is Dominican tobacco.

The most positive thing about Chinese cigars is that burn, draw, and construction has been excellent every time with the exception of a couple 32 ring gauge ones I had.

[cigaraholic]

Do they come with fortune cookies?

[Cigardan]

Sadly no