Abdala vaccine 92.28% effective against coronavirus

[El Presidente]

If this turns out to be true, it would indeed be a remarkable achievement. 

I would love to believe !

 

 

 

HAVANA, June 21 (Reuters) - Cuba said on Monday its three-shot Abdala vaccine against the coronavirus had proved 92.28% effective in last-stage clinical trials.

The announcement came just days after the government said another homegrown vaccine, Soberana II, had proved 62% effective.

[NSXCIGAR]

[El Presidente]

I hope you are proved wrong 

[Nevrknow]

For the general population’s sake, I hope it’s true.

[mprach024]

They do 3 shots cause they figure 1 will be bad and you’ll get 2 good shots

[rcarlson]

92.8% b.s.  

[MrBirdman]

It wouldn't surprise me if the vaccine's reported efficacy is roughly accurate, especially given they reported an underwhelming number on their first vaccine. Making an effective vaccine isn't nearly as hard as making an effective vaccine that won't kill you. Let's hope for the people's sake this one proves relatively safe.  

[helix]

Not likely though I do hope.

[NSXCIGAR]

2 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

Making an effective vaccine isn't nearly as hard as making an effective vaccine that won't kill you.

I think you've got it--if 92.28% of people die from it they can't get COVID!

Anyway, there is literally no way the efficacy could ever be verified. They aren't letting this stuff off the island for any kind of verification. The regime can just brag about what a great achievement it is for the next 20 years. Herd immunity will be kicking in at some point. Nobody will be able to argue against it.

[El Presidente]

32 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

They aren't letting this stuff off the island for any kind of verification. 

 

I suspect it will be throughout South America and Africa within the next six months.

[Nino]

Some opinions from the island :

https://diariodecuba.com/cuba/1624389154_32097.html

The announcements occur while the numbers of infections set records, with 1,561 new cases on Monday and another 1,489 on Tuesday on the island. Those confirmed to be active with the virus amount to 8,662 and the deceased close to 1,200.

For this reason, several Internet users questioned Díaz-Canel's message on Twitter: "Why don't you ask for an answer for the shortage of medicines, antibiotics, vitamins, aspirin, medicine for scabies?" Armando commented, referring to the severe shortage of basic medicines suffered by Cubans.

"There is no freedom of expression, of the press, of thought, there is no food, no water, no money, or medicine, in short, there is no democracy and we have to obey a single political party over 60 years old, but we have a vaccine ... ", joked Albert Soler.

The user readyforbattle explained: "If Abdala is 92% positive, why continue to spend on the other four? When are they going to publish the data? What independent agency is going to validate the data? According to you, they have more than a million vaccinated, Why do cases keep climbing? "

By God, how much politicking and disgust. You have not even mentioned the names of the scientists. You have spent millions of dollars, the country completely destabilized to fulfill its communist ego of having a supposed vaccine. Everything is based on giving a false image to it. world, "Benjamin questioned.

[NSXCIGAR]

4 hours ago, El Presidente said:

I suspect it will be throughout South America and Africa within the next six months.

So Cuba has to manufacture tens of millions of doses (x 3 for their vaccine), and then I'm assuming they want to sell it...why would anyone except Venezuela buy it? Pricing should be coming down over time and I'm sure Big Pharma and the US is negotiating directly with these countries. No doubt Cuba will try to undercut pricing but at $5 which is what S Africa paid and $2 which is what the EU paid, where's the profit? Hard to undercut much at those prices and make money. The 3-shot is inherently undesirable. Even a third-world politician would question its efficacy and safety. The cost of 3 needles and syringes has to be take into account as well as staffing for 3 doses. There are 4 good options from the west with one or two doses max...why go with Cuba's? It certainly won't be accepted anywhere in the west for travel.

And what happens if a country fronts Cuba the $40 million, gets the stuff and side effects pop up or it doesn't work? Cuba isn't big on refunds. And Cuba will likely require up-front payment when the US and Big Pharma may not. Most African and Central/South American countries don't have that kind of money lying around.

I just don't see this being widely adopted anywhere. I guess we'll see...

[Edicion]

The Glorious Leader in Pyongyang could be a candidate to purchase if they do not receive the WHO free jabs and acknowledge that Covid exists. 

[El Presidente]

Just now, NSXCIGAR said:

So Cuba has to manufacture tens of millions of doses (x 3 for their vaccine), and then I'm assuming they want to sell it...why would anyone except Venezuela buy it? Pricing should be coming down over time and I'm sure Big Pharma and the US is negotiating directly with these countries. No doubt Cuba will try to undercut pricing but at $5 which is what S Africa paid and $2 which is what the EU paid, where's the profit? Hard to undercut much at those prices and make money. The 3-shot is inherently undesirable. Even a third-world politician would question its efficacy and safety. The cost of 3 needles and syringes has to be take into account as well as staffing for 3 doses. There are 4 good options from the west with one or two doses max...why go with Cuba's? It certainly won't be accepted anywhere in the west for travel.

And what happens if a country fronts Cuba the $40 million, gets the stuff and side effects pop up or it doesn't work? Cuba isn't big on refunds.

I just don't see this being widely adopted anywhere. I guess we'll see...

Cuba loves working in contra.  Has for a long time. 

That in itself makes it attractive to many poorer countries who have little coin but resources (largely unprocessed).  Cuba doesn't even need to take posession. It can spot sell (third party) cotton/fish/petroleum/sissal/soda ash/textiles etc. 

 

 

 

[Nino]

I would not trust a "vaccine" from a country that does not have even the most basic medicines for its population ...

https://diariodecuba.com/cuba/1624447042_32073.html

In a Cuban pharmacy: if the line is short, a bad sign

"We are all sick here"; "she is a shameless that takes advantage"; "Why didn't she leave her daughter at home" ... Sensitivity does not survive the hours of waiting, fatigue and hunger in the queues to buy medicine in Cuba.

Fernando Lavigne Havana 23 Jun 2021

The queues to buy medicines in Cuban pharmacies are as stressful and exhausting as those that form to buy chicken, oil or the products of the basic basket at the beginning of the month. The difference is that while those who wait vary in terms of age, sex and health condition, the pharmacy clientele is usually made up of very old or sick people, or both at the same time.

On June 14, the second of the three shipments of medicines of the month arrived at one of the pharmacies in the municipality of Habana del Este. As usual, the batch was distributed the next day.

"The line is not so long this time because many of the medicines that people need did not enter," said Ada María, a woman in her fifties, to a surprised young man because the group of people did not exceed 20.

Among the most popular drugs are those used to treat nerve diseases, pain, allergies, diabetes and hypertension. But this shipment did not include alprazolam, nor diazepam, nor meprobamate, nor dipyrone, nor aspirin, nor captopril, nor atenolol, nor salbutamol sprays. Neither antibiotics nor contraceptives of any kind.

The lack of most of these drugs forces people to improvise to alleviate their ailments. Some doctors even dare to prescribe unorthodox treatments.

"I have a dead nerve in my knee. The pain they give me is very strong and, since there is nothing else, the neurologist prescribes amitriptyline for me," confessed Raquel, 67 years old.

Although the queue was not that long because few of the medications most people need had entered, it was moving slowly. At 11:00 in the morning they had only bought 14 shifts of the 50 distributed. As new people arrived, those in the queue warned them to mark in the "no-turn queue."

The shifts, small white papers with a number stamped in blue pen ink, had not been delivered by the pharmacy staff, but by a regular customer, the kind who arrive in the early hours of the morning and then leave with a crate full of medicines. .

The people in the queue appreciated the turns despite their unofficial nature and the fact that they had not been distributed by any authority, but by someone who took the opportunity to reserve advantageous numbers for their friends and acquaintances.

The cause of the extreme slowness of the queue was, in addition to the lack of motivation of the vendors, a census that was being carried out.

"From the month before last we have been requesting the identity card of the owner of each card. Also, this time we are taking the data from the card and transferring them to a list to make sure that no one buys the medicines that they do not require," explained a clerk.

The vendors spend several pens filling out vouchers, stowage cards and other documents, to "ensure" that the "controlled" drugs actually reach their recipients. The days after each shipment arrives are exhausting for them: a lot of work and little ventilation in the pharmacy; hungry and tired. They are compensated by the fact that the pharmacy remains empty for the rest of the month.

For the "clientele," the days of buying drugs are the worst. Although almost all are elderly and infirm people, there are no seats or minimum conditions at the pharmacy for a long wait. Exposed to the sun or rain, cold or heat and boredom, many end up losing any iota of sensitivity.

"Right now a mother came with her child in her arms and the people in the queue wanted to eat it. They told her that she could not buy with the child, because children should not leave the house in quarantine. Only one woman defended her, alluding that she should not there are messengers, that everything is a lie, because in most cases they do not work, "said another of the few young people present.

The most critical moment of the day occurred with the arrival of another mother accompanied by her adolescent daughter who suffers from a mental disability. Doctors had recommended that she not queue, according to the mother.

"We are all sick here"; "she is a glove face that takes advantage"; "Why didn't she leave her daughter at home and come to buy the medicines," were some of the comments from those who had been waiting for her turn in her queue since early in the morning.

At 2:00 in the afternoon they were completely exhausted and without lunch, and only the first 27 in the queue had entered, plus about nine cases with disabilities who, according to the rule, enter every three customers in the queue.

At that rate, "those without a shift" would buy their medications around 6:00 in the afternoon, almost at the close of the pharmacy. If, after dedicating almost a full day to this task, they did not reach the medicines they need because not enough had arrived in this shipment, they would have to return when the next one arrived and undertake the titanic task of acquiring medicines in Cuban pharmacies again.

 

 

[rcarlson]

11 hours ago, MrBirdman said:

It wouldn't surprise me if the vaccine's reported efficacy is roughly accurate, especially given they reported an underwhelming number on their first vaccine. Making an effective vaccine isn't nearly as hard as making an effective vaccine that won't kill you. Let's hope for the people's sake this one proves relatively safe.  

No way, Jose.  China has finally had to admit that the efficacy of its vaccines is insufficient, and that's after millions of doses and enough time and data to evaluate.  still hasn't stopped them from pumping into into countries that are suffering outbreaks among the vaccinated at rates hundreds of time higher than first world countries.  Cuba getting it right and accurately reporting efficacy?  Not a chance.   

 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-56713663

[Odessa]

5 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Cuba loves working in contra.  Has for a long time.

Like a former Soviet Union (USSR). Great heredity. Unfortunately, very bad for the ordinary cuban people.

[MrBirdman]

4 hours ago, rcarlson said:

No way, Jose.

Look, I said it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s efficacy was accurate. It also wouldn’t surprise me if it wasn’t.

But you also miss the point of my comment - efficacy is one thing, safety is another. It isn’t hard to generate an antibody response - that’s the “efficacy” part - what’s hard is to do it safely. You can make a vaccine that’s 100% effective by just putting COVID in it. That’s how they vaccinated people against smallpox centuries ago. It worked really well, but it infected you with the actual virus. The art of vaccines is getting the protective effects without the risk of, you know, getting horribly sick or dying. 

I think everyone should be much more concerned that the vaccine has serious side effects than shitting all over Cuba’s claims of efficacy because it’s Cuba. Even though I know some of you can’t help it! 😉

 

[Bijan]

3 minutes ago, MrBirdman said:

But you also miss the point of my comment - efficacy is one thing, safety is another. It isn’t hard to generate an antibody response - that’s the “efficacy” part - what’s hard is to do it safely.

Reminds me of the precursor of vaccines in smallpox variolation. They'd give people variola minor with 1-2% fatality to grant immunity against variola major with 25-30% fatality. Didn't get really widespread of course until they could make a proper non fatal/non contagious vaccine much later.

[MrBirdman]

2 minutes ago, Bijan said:

Reminds me of the precursor of vaccines in smallpox variolation. They'd give people variola minor with 1-2% fatality to grant immunity against variola major with 25-30% fatality. Didn't get really widespread of course until they could make a proper non fatal/non contagious vaccine much later.

We had the same thought - I was editing my comment to include just that. Didn’t have the number though - great illustration. And today, of course, a 1-2% fatality rate would be unthinkable for a vaccine, no matter how effective it was.

[rcarlson]

1 hour ago, MrBirdman said:

Look, I said it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s efficacy was accurate. It also wouldn’t surprise me if it wasn’t.

But you also miss the point of my comment - efficacy is one thing, safety is another. It isn’t hard to generate an antibody response - that’s the “efficacy” part - what’s hard is to do it safely. You can make a vaccine that’s 100% effective by just putting COVID in it. That’s how they vaccinated people against smallpox centuries ago. It worked really well, but it infected you with the actual virus. The art of vaccines is getting the protective effects without the risk of, you know, getting horribly sick or dying. 

I think everyone should be much more concerned that the vaccine has serious side effects than shitting all over Cuba’s claims of efficacy because it’s Cuba. Even though I know some of you can’t help it! 😉

 

There are grave risks to overstating the efficacy of vaccinations, and it applies with particular force to any autocratic government that views its population as human Guinea Pigs, not just Cuba. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-vaccines-questioned-after-virus-surges-countries-using-them-2021-6  

[MrBirdman]

19 minutes ago, rcarlson said:

There are grave risks to overstating the efficacy of vaccinations, and it applies with particular force to any autocratic government that views its population as human Guinea Pigs, not just Cuba. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-vaccines-questioned-after-virus-surges-countries-using-them-2021-6  

Rob, no one is disputing that lying about the efficacy is bad, if that is indeed the case. My point has consistently been that the potential for dangerous side effects is as, if not more, likely to be a source of ill-consequences. Cuba developing a vaccine with high efficacy just isn’t man-bites-dog news, even if it’s completely true  

Also, FWIW China’s vaccine is an “inactivated virus” vaccine, which is about as unsophisticated as it gets in modern vaccine production. There’s a reason no Western firms seriously pursued one. 

Cuba’s vaccine, on the other hand, is a protein vector variety that is 1) an older but well established means of making effective vaccines; 2) something Cuba has decades of experience with; and 3) the same route pursued by Sanofi and GSK, whose vaccine results have been promising after some early hiccups. 

[rcarlson]

Okay.