Wild Fires Australia

[BellevilleMXZ]

I can't begin to imagine what you folks are going through.....thoughts with you all, be safe.

[Vetteman]

Hoping for the best for Aussie members, their friends and families, and everyone else affected (2 legged and 4 legged). The pictures appearing on social media are horrible.

[El Presidente]

According to NOAA  (2019) Sea level continues to rise at a rate of about one-eighth of an inch per year. It does vary location to location. 

 

Not aiming at anyone in particular, but the spirit of this thread is one of support. Let's keep that in mind before pulling out the soap boxes. 

 

 

 

[Ken Gargett]

the planet is stuffed! 

but i support everyone acknowledging this and working to delay the inevitable. 

[garnett]

12 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

the planet is stuffed! 

but i support everyone acknowledging this and working to delay the inevitable. 

The planet isn't stuffed the human race is stuffed the planet will be just fine it is changing has been from day one the human race will be poop on the hoof of the next creature that evolves and adapts to the new conditions. imho.

[Kitchen]

1 hour ago, db13 said:

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but according to Forbes, sea level rise will destroy coastal cities across the planet by 2050.

“More than 99 percent of today’s population in 252 coastal towns and cities would have their homes submerged.“

And no, this doesn’t look good for Cuba and cigars.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jimdobson/2019/10/30/shocking-new-maps-show-how-sea-level-rise-will-destroy-coastal-cities-by-2050/amp/

The problem with the near religious devotion to climate change and attributing it to all our ills means we largely ignore other factors that, more then likely, have a more detrimental effect. Not that I am a climate change denier, but there is a lot of evidence that The Smoky Bear Effect is a greater cause to the increase in severe forest fires then climate change. 

 

[Kitchen]

On 1/2/2020 at 10:00 AM, NYgarman said:

I believe there are 195 countries in the world. For things to truly change all need to be on board and willing to change. Otherwise it is a moot point. May I also add that the US has much cleaner air than in past decades. The days of seeing smog air filled cities no longer appear in the news. Gas and diesel engine vehicles run cleaner than ever. We will never go back to horse and buggy days, not feasible. And meat is and will remain a staple in American diets. Blaming cow flatulence for contributing to climate change is farcical. The over population of humans on Earth trumps anything else. How many more billions can the world handle?

I was listening to an interview with two Canadians professors, Darrell Bricker and John Ibbitson, that have done a lot of research into population growth and in every single developed country, the birth rate goes below the 2.1 children per female needed to maintain the population.  Nearly all large countries have decreasing population with the exception of India and the USA.  India is not yet fully urbanized and the USA makes up for low birth rates by having liberal immigration policy.  (Even our conservative immigration policy is still very liberal compared to most countries.) They predict the world population will peak at 9.5 billion in the middle of this century and then start to decrease.  If you look at their research it is very hard to disagree with them.  

So we do have this as a plus.  

[El Presidente]

8 minutes ago, Kitchen said:

t there is a lot of evidence that The Smoky Bear Effect is a greater cause to the increase in severe forest fires then climate change. 

 

Not here. Most is virgin forest burning. 

In our case  it is a mix of record temperatures (in our recorded history) , no rain  and high winds. 

 

[TBird55]

I do control burns on my forest land. I realize it won't work everywhere, but removing the build up of fuel, by burning, greatly reduces the probability of a catastrophic fire. Burning also  helps control invasive plants, insects, and forest diseases. 

[Ken Gargett]

2 hours ago, Kitchen said:

The problem with the near religious devotion to climate change and attributing it to all our ills means we largely ignore other factors that, more then likely, have a more detrimental effect. Not that I am a climate change denier, but there is a lot of evidence that The Smoky Bear Effect is a greater cause to the increase in severe forest fires then climate change. 

 

i don't think anyone really puts it all down to humans - at least anyone who thinks about it for two minutes - and no doubt natural phenomena have and will continue to contribute. what i find mindboggling is that there are so many (and not suggesting yourself or anyone in particular) who insist that humans have nothing to do with it. makes no sense to me. but even if one really did believe that, what on earth is wrong with doing what we can to minimise it? 

humans didn't cause or create measles or cholera or typhoid (okay, conditions we create may enhance the situation the diseases need to flourish) so do we say well, not our fault. do nothing (unless they are anti-vaxx whackadoodles). or do we do what we can to minimise their impact, cure the afflicted? why wouldn't we do that with climate change? 

 

re the earlier posts, as for whether it is the planet or the human race stuffed, for our purposes it hardly matters.

in saying planet, i am not so much thinking that the rock itself will fall from the sky but that we have caused, and continue to cause, massive devastation to it, poisoned oceans, destroyed forests, sent unknown numbers of species to extinction. and in all likelihood will leave the human race a shattered shadow of itself. of course, that will not be solely down to the damage we do to the planet. may i introduce you to ... religion. a great many humans will die over the next fifty years thanks to religion and all that is associated with it. and trust me, that is not aimed at any specific creed. the entire lot of them will contribute. 

happy new year to all. 

[Fuzz]

Australia does conduct back burning and fuel reduction. However, as Rob mentioned, the weather this season are causing unprecedented conditions. Extremely hot weather, drought and high winds, have created the perfect storm.

The winds are especially devastating. For those who have never heard of it, we have something called the "Southerly Buster". This is an abrupt southerly wind change, coming up the coast from Victoria to NSW. Usually occurring on very hot days, a strong off sea gale forms in the late afternoon, bringing a rapid drop in temperature (a 10-15C/18-27F drop in a few minutes). As the squall moves up the coast, it brings a rapid change in wind direction, replacing the usual northwesterly winds. Wind gusts can reach over 70km/h. So you can imagine what fighting a fire is like when a southerly buster comes rolling in. One minute you are fighting a fire front only a few hundred meters wide, then the wind changes, creating a vortex effect and multiple fire fronts. The wind can be so severe to create fire tornados. Tragically, one RFS firefighter was killed by such an event, when a freak fire tornado tipped over his 10 ton fire truck.

Add to this the mountain terrain, and the speed of the fire increases.

 

[SCgarman]

3 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Not here. Most is virgin forest burning. 

In our case  it is a mix of record temperatures (in our recorded history) , no rain  and high winds. 

 

How are things near your home? Air quality? Smoke? The images on the US national news are frightening.

[Ken Gargett]

fuzz, the other thing is that it is far from unknown for the backburning to actually start some of the major fires. you would not think it possible but of course, it is not easy and the guys do their best. 

i saw one report suggesting we set up a swap system with europe and the states where the large water-dumping planes are located northern hemisphere your summer and southern for ours. and presumably personnel as well. makes sense. 

Queensland certainly has not been spared, though the major fires at the moment are largely to the south. a few weeks ago, we were in horrendous trouble in areas. there were also some early fires near the coast which ripped through some of the wealthy beach resort areas. several times! 

every chance, fingers crossed not, that there is much more to come and Queensland could be right in the spotlight. 

what is beyond inevitable is that when we finally get rain, it will come as massive floods with endless more devastation. 

[Fuzz]

2 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

fuzz, the other thing is that it is far from unknown for the backburning to actually start some of the major fires. you would not think it possible but of course, it is not easy and the guys do their best. 

i saw one report suggesting we set up a swap system with europe and the states where the large water-dumping planes are located northern hemisphere your summer and southern for ours. and presumably personnel as well. makes sense. 

Queensland certainly has not been spared, though the major fires at the moment are largely to the south. a few weeks ago, we were in horrendous trouble in areas. there were also some early fires near the coast which ripped through some of the wealthy beach resort areas. several times! 

every chance, fingers crossed not, that there is much more to come and Queensland could be right in the spotlight. 

what is beyond inevitable is that when we finally get rain, it will come as massive floods with endless more devastation. 

If it isn't weather conditions, it's accidents from back burning, arsonists or our military conducting live fire exercises (I am not kidding with that last one).

Interestingly enough, there is actually some debate about the effectiveness of water bombing aircraft. Studies by the CSIRO have shown that they are only effective on mild bushfires, with some ex-firefighters claiming it is only 30% effective in reducing a bushfire, and absolutely ineffective on massive fires.

[Ken Gargett]

1 minute ago, Fuzz said:

If it isn't weather conditions, it's accidents from back burning, arsonists or our military conducting live fire exercises (I am not kidding with that last one).

Interestingly enough, there is actually some debate about the effectiveness of water bombing aircraft. Studies by the CSIRO have shown that they are only effective on mild bushfires, with some ex-firefighters claiming it is only 30% effective in reducing a bushfire, and absolutely ineffective on massive fires.

fuzz, i suspect almost nothing is effective on the massive fires. like flicking spitballs at a charging elephant. 

but they could certainly be used on the smaller fires or the edges. 

[El Presidente]

1 hour ago, NYgarman said:

How are things near your home? Air quality? Smoke? The images on the US national news are frightening.

We (local lads) are fine. ken pointed out that we had a nasty period going on three weeks ago but the real problem right now  is in southern NSW and Victoria. 

It is such a big country and our rural towns are generally small and spread out.  Fire on this scale you can't stop.  

I was listening to a woman on tv yesterday who described the fire that came through as a living demon.  Pitch black,  Huge (50 metres /160 feet high and km/miles wide), fast ( the neighbour tried to outrun it in his car and died), loud to the point you couldn't  hear anything but the roar. The heat was so intense that she felt her skin was going to combust at any second.  When she thought all was gone it passed.  One of the lucky ones. 

[Ken Gargett]

and on the other side of the country (no idea if they are having problems with fires this year but the chances would be good), some poor sod goes for a swim and gets swallowed by a great white in front of his wife! 

[TheFullMontecristo]

   The wild fires do not seem to be the cause of only climate change effects. Not sure how reliable a news source the below link is but bares consideration. Be safe all effected by this disaster.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/118623458/australian-bushfires-cops-and-arson-unit-round-up-24-alleged-firestarters-in-nsw

[Fuzz]

Arsonists are one of the causes of bushfires, but the conditions are caused by climate change and human action/inaction.

In all my 40+ years, I have never seen conditions this bad, nor bushfires raging across so many states at the one time. My parents have been here since the early 1960s, and they haven't experienced this either.

 

[Fugu]

Without trying to convey any agenda, I just want to say, this is truly frightening, utterly devastating. For men as well as for the environment/wildlife. Condolences to those affected. Stay safe folks and take no risks!

[SwissPEP]

18 hours ago, Fugu said:

Without trying to convey any agenda, I just want to say, this is truly frightening, utterly devastating. For men as well as for the environment/wildlife. Condolences to those affected. Stay safe folks and take no risks!

I have to second that ?

All prayers to all there 

 

 

 

[nKostyan]

Oh, hell, I read the press and see that this has taken on a terrifying scale. An online community is collecting signatures to ask the government to send fire-fighting amphibious aircraft to Australia, but this is effective when there are large rivers and lakes nearby.
I hope that the fires can be stopped soon. The most important thing is to save human lives, the rest can be restored. Take care of yourself friends

[JohnS]

A small tropical cyclone system, which began off the coast of North-West Australia last week, has slowly moved across to the Eastern States. Melbourne got a month's worth of rain in one day yesterday. Sydney has rain and thunderstorms today and forecast for the next 5 days. It a lovely sight to type this and witness the rain fall outside.

[Chibearsv]

38 minutes ago, JohnS said:

A small tropical cyclone system, which began off the coast of North-West Australia last week, has slowly moved across to the Eastern States. Melbourne got a month's worth of rain in one day yesterday. Sydney has rain and thunderstorms today and forecast for the next 5 days. It a lovely sight to type this and witness the rain fall outside.

I'm sure the rain is helpful.  Hopefully, it will knock the fires down long enough to get control of them.  I hope everyone can soon breathe a sigh of relief that it's extinguished and that your family, friends, neighbors, and countrymen can feel safe again.

[Ken Gargett]

1 hour ago, Chibearsv said:

I'm sure the rain is helpful.  Hopefully, it will knock the fires down long enough to get control of them.  I hope everyone can soon breathe a sigh of relief that it's extinguished and that your family, friends, neighbors, and countrymen can feel safe again.

the rain is certainly welcome and helping but the fires are far from out. there are still a great many fires that are still out of control. the rain has not been across all areas. 

but those areas with rain now have landslide and potential flooding issues.